Dollzone Originality - Discuss it here.

Yeah, I find the patent thing funny too. The patent will go to whoever filed it first. So if DZ filed in China before Volks then they will win the patent despite the fact that they did not actually create the jointing system first. Then DZ would be able to turn around and sue anyone who sells dolls that use the jointing system in China. Of course, that will only work in China and nowhere else.

The same thing happend to Apple. They created the click-wheel system for their iPod first, but delayed paperwork. In the meantime Creative went and snapped up the patent on the click-wheel. So when Apple finally got the paperwork through their patent was rejected because Creative owned it. I think they are trying to refile. Creative then went and sued Apple for patent infringement. Apple has sued in return. It's a big mess actually. Eh, sorry for the OT rant. ^^;;;

 

I think this brings up a point--people realized the differences between the two dolls *when they saw them in person*. I know some won't believe this is the case with DZ (as Usagi stated herself), but either way guilty or not, seeing the two dolls in person will make an enormous difference.

I understand where the anti-DZ folks are coming from--I really do, but the evidence that is supposed to be so damning doesn't say anything for sure to me as there can be so many similarities in pictures and there are also plenty of differences. I'm not willing to condem someone on pictures alone. I assume if this goes to court, some impartial person will examine the dolls in question, and I'm curious to see what happens in that circumstance.

Someone way back also stated that the assumption that there were only so many ways to portray the human body was false do to all the differences in humans. However, there are many body shapes found in real humans that will never appear on dolls. People like certain aesthetics, which is why you get a repeat in body types. There are some companies like Dollshe who have a very unique look to their bodies, but a lot of the time there is a great deal of similarity.

 

I thought at least for Volks KIPS that the pattent was all about the pads in the joints to make the doll pose better? IS there any way we can get this cleared up so we know exactly what it was that Volks has put a pattent on?

 

Ah! I went to sleep so I could not answer!

I do not hate the DZ-owners, if they did not know. But to me, it is like this: if a person bought, and did not know, then that is one thing. But to know, and not care that is a horrible thing, and I have no sympathy.
The company, in the end, is at fault. Not the owners.

 

I agree with you there. I almost made the mistake myself of buying a DZ doll. I asked a question and someone was kind enough to point me in the direction of threads to see for myself and gather info. I am gratefull they did.

Personally, if you KNOW they copied and still buy a doll... to me, I'm sorry, that's.. iffy. I just can't do it for moral reasons. I don't understand how a person can know they ripped off a company and still buy a doll.

If you had spent days/months/years working on a peice of art, only to find someone made a copy and is selling it on ebay, wouldn't you be hurt if people who knew still purchased the copies? Or purchasing "new" art that hasn't yet been proven to be plagerized?

 

Well for me... yes I did know about the Woori copy. This might make people dislike me, I don't know. I did enough research before hand to read about that, but also to read about how many people believed they had turned around. I liked the Mo mold too much not to buy it, and it seemed it was not a copy. If I HAD heard that it was a copy off of another doll, I would have gone looking for the original one.

As an artist, after going to art school, I've always been rather against copyright. Yes, against. I think an artist has the right to profit off of their own art, and no one has the right to direct copy, but many copyrights have been taken too far. After making my own doll, however, and seeing just how much work goes into making them, even the Woori copy way back when infuriates me. This new body is even worse. I looked at my DZ dolls arms today, I always thought there was something funny about them, but never looked closely. They do NOT fit together in anyway that makes sense. Even a new doll maker would know that arms should not be put together this way. I definitely seems like (especially if the old body arms fit together) that they just took a part from another doll to make the new hands fit.

I'm shocked, and almost feel like just putting him in a box and forgetting about him, not putting him on the market for other people to buy. But... even with all that, I think I will keep him. To practice my modifications on anyway, and he already has a character I would feel guilty about putting in a box. If the mods decide to not allow Dollzone dolls on the forum, I would accept that. I will soon have other dolls anyway!

 

Please to be making sense? Excuse me, where have I been disrespectful to you?

This is an open thread of discussion, where we, you know, DISCUSS.

YOU told her to step back, she can say what she wants at the thread, same as you.

 

It's very sad. If they did in fact copy, this is not doingwell for them, to keep posting such pictures.
It seems... the more they post, the more they incriminate themselves...

Let us keep this a discussion. Everyone has opinions, all of which are acceptable and open.

 

That was me. ^_^

Yea, I know where you're coming from. If you look at even one type of body of many, skinny boys, muscular boys, there are so many different proportions of bodies that can be done too, so you're right, there will be similarities, but not blatant copied sameness either is what I wanted to say, sorry. ^^;

::snuzzles Kiya::

But about the FD fiasco, and their entire banning. Yea, their banning doesn't make as big of a deal to us now, because generally, we can't get ahold of them. The company is gone, I was around when the lone one popped up on Ebay, and then was taken down. It won't hurt any owner very much... there are a few owners around here of them though.

But, DZ is around now, people are able to buy. So I don't know how much we can compare them now, because it's a different beast. They're actually of good quality, and not likely to crumble to dust at the touch. Some of the heads I find myself drawn to!

And if I was just starting out on BJDs, and had little money, but a love for the hobby, and liked a head, I would have gotten one for sure I bet! It would kill me to know, maybe Mordecai wouldn't be allowed at the boards, or Abacus or Thief for some reason. Put yourself in the owners' shoes too... in the end, this is a board for dolls, and I hate seeing elitism and people feeling unwelcomed.

 

I agree with this. We are all here for the same reason; even if it is a sad or horrible thing, the dolls are not at fault, neither are the owners. People may dislike actions of other people, but this is a hobby, not something big and grand. In the end, we are here for the same reason. No unwelcomeness!

 

The way I feel about the issue is this-- there are large moral issues in the world...pollution, fair labor practices, access to proper medical care, etc etc. The big issues that affect so many.

Then there are the smaller more personal issues. They aren't earth shattering, but they cause people to pause and figure out where they stand. The DZ copy issue is one of these. I'm not ready to say without more proof that they are directly copying, however even if they were, I don't think banning really does much accept alienate people who have the right to decide for themselves what dolls they want to buy. This is the kind of issue where people should vote, so to speak, with their pocket books. If you don't trust them, don't like their business practices then don't buy the dolls. For other people who want the dolls and buy them, that's their choice and they shouldn't be punished for it. There is enough information in a number of threads at this point that people should be able to make an informed descision.

I've been involved with other collectible hobbies before, and the attitude about copied molds seems to be very different. If there was a cheap knock off being sold for more than it was worth as an original--that's very bad. But otherwise, no one judged anyone about it. The orginals would normally have the higher value though. The emotion that these issues bring up here is unbelievable. I think this might be because the doll hobby isn't as monetary value oriented as other hobbies, and the deep sentimental attachments we have to our dolls and the brand loyalty that some people develope. People want to either defend their dolls and their buying choices, or defend a company that they think has been wronged. I'm not stating this for any particular reason, except that I think it's interesting and as a reminder that this issue my be greater for some than for others. It doesn't mean people are bad, they just might look at it differently.

I prefer to see orginal works of art in terms of doll sculptures, but I think the issue as a whole should be up to the individual to decide how they feel about it. Especially since DZ does put a nice product in terms of resin quality and finishing--they aren't ripping people off like Forever Doll. Right now I'm just curious to see the legal outcome of all of this.

 

The patent is definitely filed in Japan if it is filed anywhere. If the japanese patent office has a website you may be able to look it up there. You'd need to be very fluent in Japanese though and even then it might be hard because they will likely used alot of technical language.

 

I found this on the USPTO site:

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=volks&OS=volks&RS=volks

Nevermind I'm pretty sure it's a DD, DD2 or a 1/6th Dollfie.

 

I can't be certain but it sounds like a patent for the 1/6 dolls rather than a BJD.

I found this if anyones interested
http://www.superdollfie.net/en/favorfromvolks2.html

 

Kuroraka-chan - thanks. I installed the thing so i could view the tiff files and it's not an SD it's either DD. DD2 or 1/6th as you stated. It's the only patant I could find for Volks, so technically KIPS isn't patanted. So we'll have to wait untill their patent is approved before we know exactly what KIPS is, weather it's the joint style or the joints with the addition of the pads for easier posing.

 

Actually, KIPS is patented. In Japan. And the Volks website says exactly what KIPS is. *From what it says below, I am thinking it is patented in Japan, and is pending in US?


EDIT: I found the info. http://www.superdollfie.net/en/sd/limited/sd16/yukinojosawaragi.html

"What is KIPS?"
It is the new joint system only for SD.
Beauty of posing.No trouble with posing any more.
Here we present the revolution of posing and astonishing joint system "KIPS".
What is the secret?
It is patent pending system (joint sheets and joint balls) that is featured in SD’s joint.
This new joint system with special material can make variation of posing more than ever.
You can have him in many nice posing with this system.
* Please note that this system does not guarantee the holding of every posing or self-standing."