Dollzone Originality - Discuss it here.

Which joint is that, out of curiosity? The waist joint?

-- A

 

No, the "joint" at the top of the thighs.

 

personally, I feel like Volks came up with some interesting joint ideas with SD16. Obviously not everything with SD16 was new, but DZ is WAY too similar to SD16 joints. Something that Volks spent over a year perfecting, it seems from these pictures that they just copied it. I can't respect a company that does that.

 

That's what makes me suspicious. If they really are that good, why not come up with something that doesn't have nearly identical proportions and joints, something more original? I find it hard to believe that the SD16 is so perfect that there was no joint or proportion that they wanted to change when re-sculpting it from scratch.

 

The joints look very obviously coppied. what gets me is that the chest and pelvis dosen't look just sanded on or molded over, it looks like a compleatly original piece. And a very well desigined one too. I don't know what dollzone did but they have made a very beautiful doll in the prosess. Its very suspicious that the joints are exact copies of the SD16.

edit; looking again the shaped of the joints are diffirent in the knee and elbow area. The SD 16 has a more ball shape at the end of their where Dollzone seems more oval all around. This leads me to belive that Dollzone did not re-cast Volks boy in any part...but coppied him eye for eye. Most likely not from pictures either. Still bad, but not -as- bad leagaly.

 

Um...

This is the first time I've looked at this thread and I'm appalled. As a total newbie to the hobby as of, oh, three or four weeks ago, I had no idea about this debate over Dollzone dolls. My first is one, and I'm thrilled with him, and obviously had no idea that there might be some issue going on. But I kept noticing that Dollzone wasn't on most of the lists that are out there and thus my interest in this thread.

Am I to understand that if it were proven that Dollzone had copied some sculpt in the past, those of us with DZ dolls would be banned from the forum??

I hope I'm misunderstanding this. It certainly wasn't my intention to buy a "bootleg" anything. He's a great doll and at least as worthy of affection as any other... yet I certainly can understand the issue. It would be very distressing to suddenly be dumped from a new hobby because of such a thing,though...

Can someone help the poor stupid newbie understand what's up?

 

I keep asking this, and no one has gotten around to answering. Does the DZ 1/3 boy have locking knees? And how does his thigh sit in the hip piece? Does he have little shelves on the backs of the joints to aid in sitting?

Both of these are pureskin volks additions to their bodies in order to aid in sitting and posing.

But look at the overall knee structure of the Unoa. There's far more to it than that little piece that makes it double jointed. (And the Unoa has far more aesthatically pleasing double joints, IMO. And while it looks like she locks, it's a far different locking mechanism than what Volks uses.)

If anyone wants to take pictures of their Unoa and their sd16 for comparrissons, you'll see that the entire structure of the dolls and their joints is quite visually and sculpturally different.

 

@Baakay:

OK... first of all, I think if anything gets banned, it will be the dolls but not their owners.

It is pretty certain from what I gather that Dollzone has indeed copied a Luts doll in the past. They were called on it and are no longer offering this particular doll for sale.

As for their current line-up, it is generally agreed that the heads are original sculpts but the bodies may - or may not be - "frankendollied" together by copying and combining various body parts from different other dolls. The new 1/3rd scale doll body in particular is suspected of being a copy of Volks´ SD-16 body. This matter has still to be legally decided (it seems as if Volks is planning to take action) but many members here have used comparison pics to make up their own mind as to what is more or less likely.

Some members who believe DZ is indeed copying or is too suspicious to trust have already announced that they will not look at gallery threads containing DZ dolls and may not actively seek out a friendship to someone whose buying decision they can´t respect.

No-one has yet asked for a ban of DZ owners and I don´t think anyone will, since if DZ has really copied, it´s their crime, not their buyers´.

There was another Chinese company who copied Volks in the recent past called Foreverdolls. As far as I know their dolls which are confirmed copies are banned. Someone correct me if I´m wrong.
(Edit: Found it, it´s in the gallery rules. It says dolls that are violating another´s copyright such as recasts are not permitted.)

It´s not going to be an easy decision for the mods if it should turn out that DZ dolls are indeed copies. Strictly speaking, they should be banned if they are, but they are very popular already - especially Megi and Mo - and it would be hard on many owners who really bought these dolls in good faith.

Well - as things stand, we know nothing for certain yet... I´m still keeping my fingers crossed that DZ may not be copying because I, too, like their sculpts.

 

This whole thing makes me sick. I can not bring myself to believe that a company like Dollzone would continue to do something so horrible to the people that honestly buy these dolls in good faith. I'm sure the company is at least aware of a forum-based community (Possibly even this very forum) and so if they do something so horrible, its like we, as the buyers, are punished and looked down upon because we honestly bought the dolls in good faith.

Normally, I do not speak out about such things, but I am angry at the company....if they honestly copied, then they've hurt all of us, and based on the mods decision, we may not even be allowed to post pictures of the dolls we love anymore. One thing to say, should Dollzone still continue producing copies...Thanks alot for F***king it up for the rest of us, Dollzone.

Now I'm scared that soon my Aji will no longer be welcome on DoA. Oh and btw, I'm not mad at you guys, just for some clarity...I'm mad at the whole situation.

 

I guess I'd call myself as also being amount the camp that, after seeing Dollzone clean up their act the first time, is very annoyed that these new dolls are so close to SD-16 even if they're NOT direct copies.

I love Dollzone 1/4ths, but I wouldn't touch a 1/3rd because they're just too close for comfort. (And yes, I have looked into the claim that the 1/4th bodies are copied, and I STILL maintain that if someone can show me the exact body DZ girl is taken from, I've love to have that body. I've seen close, but never a close enough match to be 100% convincing.)

I really like Dollzone, and even if the new joints aren't copied, even I can see the dangers of producing something even resembling a copy coming out of their history. Unfortunately, whoever is running the company seems to have their head in the sand about the whole issue.

I do think it's sad that people say things like "Well, I wouldn't want to be friends with a Dollzone owner,"... but in the long run, if they base their friends off what dolls people own, we probably wouldn't have gotten along in the first place.

I will always adore my Megi, but at this point I won't be getting any more Dollzones, if only because the whole fan-backlash makes it really hard to enjoy having a Dollzone. (And yes, I have experienced what would amount to extreme hostility at the mere mention that I have a Dollzone.)

 

Wheee!

Well. Thanks for the clarification. I really appreciate it -- especially since I didn't realize until just a few moments ago that this was a long-standing issue that I could have found by using search. *embarrassed*

Ah well. I still wuv Yuki. Whether one of his ancesters was copied or not

 

Okaaaaayyyy! Hold it people! For those who've been asking if Dollzone has been proven to be copied and all that... Yes, one doll was indeed a copy from CP. That doll has since been retracted. However, it does not seem like CP has taken further action against Dollzone so Dollzone continued on with their doll creating business thingy.

Now, we've the new issue of the 1/3 BJDs released by Dollzone. A lot of people have said that Dollzone copied from Volks SD16 line but this has not been proven. Yesyes, a lot of you will say it's obvious from the pictures, but the truth remains is that we cannot outright say that 'We are 100% sure that those are copies based on absolutely objective hard evidence'. Volks have hinted about taking legal action so it's probably best to wait to see what comes out from that before becoming judge, jury and executioner.

The mods have said nothing about banning the users or the dolls yet, as I think they've repeated quite often as well. I don't think Foreverdoll has been banned even though it definitely plagiarised (and was shut down consequently) because I've recently seen one in a gallery.

However, I've said it before and I'll say it again; In my opinion, banning a doll will only breed ignorance. By treating it as a stigma or taboo topic, more people (especially newbies) will be left in the dark.

When this topic was closed, I had a lot of things to say on the subject but all of that is gone with the wind now. Maybe when my brain is more coherent I'll put up my thoughts on the Dollzone originality rather than just respond to other comments.

 

And leaving certain dolls unbanned would only continue to spark arguments and disagreements..and snark and unhappy people AND whining here on DoA. Its not our job to train the newbies and make sure they make good desicions. Hell...half of them dont even know where the search function IS around here..But they manage in time. If they cant do their own research and buy something with problems attached to it..then thats on them o.O

My vote is that IF it ever happens..It would be for the forum's own good.

--and not only that..but its really not up to us..Thats the mods buisness.

 

well guess I'm changing my tactics real fast, on who my new boy will be. quite sad really...I was hoping to get a rather large boy. something above 60cm would've been nice. but in the long run I think I'll have to settle for one. and sadly, I do own a dollzone...man...now I'm beginning to not feel so great about hide. I mean don't get my wrong I still love him...but lemme guess he's probably not going to be welcomed quite as much...and I do want at least ONE doll, I can show on here...soo...changing companies..to who I don't know...but this thread has given me enough heartache and headache to find it not worth it to buy one of the newer dolls...:: sighs :: I wonder what naoki would be now....

 

Get whichever doll you want. You can show them here and no one will look down on you. The point of this hobby isn't to make some picky fans happy. It's to make you happy. It's to make the individual owners happy, that's what these dolls are about.

Also my personal opinion is that people are getting in a snit over nothing. I've looked at these pictures and thought on this awhile and I personally don't think it's copied. I don't think the body is copied any more than any doll is. Considering we have a mostly uniform set of sizes and a general type of hand positioning and general doll set up. Yes some of it looks a bit similar and has a noticable functional similarity instead of just asthetics. But most of the details are different and the general sculpting is different. That and we have yet to see the joints lock and a number of other things that would actually show something.

 

IMHO, violating copyright is not "nothing". Companies work hard to develop dolls and they should see the benefit of that legally and morally. it is important. I feel bad for people who have in the past bought a doll that was a copyright violation, unknowingly, I really do. there are so many dolls and doll companies that it is really hard to know what is what.
But to say that all that matters is whether an owner is happy, I think is misleading. copyright law does matter.
completely aside from the legal and moral implications, if tons of companies out there just ripped off a few of the main ones, the companies who actually spent the time developing them would loose money, and concievably at some point stop creating. Then what do you have? where would that leave us? no new creative ground and a bunch of poorly produced copies? not all infringing dolls are that way but Forever Dolls are a case in point (breaking easily, not sanding well, inferior mold...)
if I created my own doll, that I spent a year working on, that I developed new ideas for,... I would be absolutely ill if someone ripped off major portions of the ideas I had with my doll. wouldnt you?

I personally feel that as doll consumers we have to stand up for companies that create their own product, and by proxy NOT support companies that rip others off. Who knows if any legal battle will ever get solved with this particular company or what the outcome will be, but I won't support them.

 

Thanks Aimee, its nice to know that you still care about/feel sorry for those of us that, in the past, have bought one in innocence/without knowing...


We're a bunch of doll owners, when I visit my mom and tell her about the forum, she just imagines people holding hands and playing dressup. She never imagines that we actually have confrontations on here. I told her, to own a doll, you need to have some serious guts. She just thinks its funny (not about the copies of course, thats bad no matter how you look at it) but the fact that people actually say things that hurt other peoples feelings. (and MEAN IT >_>)

What I'm getting at is that copying is bad and I won't buy a bootleg copy of anything, but from an outsiders point of view, we're reading way too far into this, I dunno, maybe she's right. We don't own the companies, but we are the fans. We should be aware and do what we think is right, but ultimately we shouldn't try to make decisions for the companies...if Volks sues, then Volks sues. I'm on the fence now.

 

Out of complete curiosity, do dollmakers have international patents?

 

Sadly, patent laws vary from country to country.
As I've posted earlier, Dollzone's response in their legal announcement was that
They have not infringe upon rights of third party, as to the company must register for patent in China to enjoy the protection in China
Which is why I don't really feel too good about this company.
In my opinion, if they haven't copied anyone's sculpt/joint system, they would probably have stated in their statement that all their dolls are original creations rather than making a get away statement trough exploiting loop-holes in international law.

To be frank and it's just my personal opinion, it's a bit like sticking two fingers up and say 'you can't do anything about it because there is a loop hole in international law'

 

so if dollzone got shut down for copying CP woori in the past, what was their excuse that time? If they used the same reason- IE loopholes in the international law..then how were they able to get shut down before? o.o