Dollzone Originality - Discuss it here.

Judging from information I saw on this thread... I don't think they've been shut down....
They just retracted the copied doll....
But please bear in mind that what I said is my personal opinion on the language and words they used in their statements
Other people will have different interpretations about it ^^;;;;

 

I know when my slightly-off Scandanavian grandfather (bless his old soul) wanted to get a patant for something he had the option of a US patent and an international patent. Are international patents not present in all countries, then?

 

I'm not really that sure about international patent laws....
But from I read on the dollzone statement, it did say that a company has to register in China for patent in order to enjoy protection there.....

 

From what one of my best friends told me (her stepmom lives in China) nothing there seems to be protected under copyright laws. I'll have to research into such things as I'm now quite curious, especially as I've been working on a joint that I think would be just ducky for both knees and elbows.

 

China has signed the Berne Convention as well.This is basically the international copyright agreement which grants any foreign copyright holder the same protection in a nation that signed that a citizen of that particular nation has.

So, as far as the *word of the law* goes, Japanese or Korean intellectual property are not "free-for-all" in China, either.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_property_in_the_People's_Republic_of_China

The main problem is that the protection of intellectual property is not really being enforced in China.

Copyright law is already a highly difficult matter in Europe and the United States and unless your case is as obvious as a 1:1 recast without any modifications, you can´t be sure how a judge will decide.

Never mind the similarities - the differences between DZ and other sculpts as seen in the comparison pictures in this thread could turn out to be completely sufficient for a judge in a copyright lawsuit to rule that they are not copies and no copyright of others has been infringed. This is one fully possible outcome of any lawsuit taken against DZ in this matter.

Since cases like this already have a very uncertain outcome in Europe or the US, things are even more uncertain in China.

 

They weren't shut down and CP's response was that there was nothing they could do. It's very expensive and time consuming to launch a lawsuit, not to mention language and distance barriers that would probably arise from suing a Chinese company, so they probably simply could not afford to sue over the copy. DZ supposedly stopped producing the copied dolll, but they produced limited versions of Lynn, the copied doll, that you can still see on their website. How do we know that they are not still selling the copied doll in China? They didn't receive any sort of punishment for the copying beyond a bit of an uproar in the international community.

 

The thing about Dollzone is this: Everyone keeps saying the lawsuit is important, but in the end I don't think it *will* change that many minds.

If Dollzone wins, the people who already think Dollzone is copying will say "The courts were wrong" or "Well, they're in the wrong, but nothing could be done because of Chinese copyright law."

The people who don't think Dollzone is copying, if Dollzone loses, will say "The judges didn't really understand the differences between the dolls, because they're not doll people!"

Someone on this thread already argued that even if Dollzone loses, people will still support them by arguing that the courts were wrong. They forgot to consider the *alternative* possibility.

What's important is that each individual person decide 1) whether they think the new Dollzones are copies and 2) whether they think the companies past behavior warrants not supporting them in the future

What's even MORE important is that they live with that decision without imposing their own decision on the rest of the doll world.

I mean, wouldn't you find it obnoxious if you were eating a picnic lunch, minding your own business, and someone ran up to you and screamed "MEAT IS MURDER!" in your face? Or if you were very thirsty and bought a coke, and someone sneered at you "So I guess you support the murder of Indian babies." Or say you were leaving Wal-mart, and someone felt free to accuse you of opposing fair wages for workers.

The point is, all those are valid opinions about companies for individuals to hold, but in all those cases, isn't it obnoxious when people start forcing their opinions of and boycots on companies onto you, as if you weren't capable of making a decision about the company yourself, or as if no opinion were valid but their own.

People have different political/ethical values about those companies that make them choose to patronize/not patronize them. IE, I personally feel Dollzone 70 cm are too close for me to own, but I'm not going to force that opinion on anyone else.

Similarily, buying from Dollzone should by the same personal choice.

So what's almost as big of issue here as Dollzone's originality (or not) is people who are attempting to force their opinion of Dollzone on its owners, through hostile or exclusionary actions. Unfortunately, it's the issue most people don't want to talk about.

 

True, violating copyrights is not "nothing". I also believe that the doll that WAS copied awhile ago was wrong.

But in this instance we have no proof that any copyright was violated. My personal opinion from what I've seen on the board and in this thread is that a lot of people are being very biased and if this had come from any other reputable company they would be ooing and aaahing over how pretty the doll is. Now, this might not be true. But it's an opinion based on the patterns I've observed in the fandom, not some kind of truth of the universe.

Oh, and just for the record: DeadLegato, You're awesome. *gives applause to the post*

 

My Wing arrived & I compared him to my Yukinojo.

I'm not trying to stir up trouble, but I don't see how they copied, there are some similiarites, but there are differences as well, like most of the dolls I own.

What exactly are the copied parts? I can take some pictures if it would help. I would also like to take a second look.

Again, I don't want to cause trouble, I don't know if it would help or not.

Their Wing head is too cute, I couldn't resist it.
Anna

 

No one can force another to accept one’s own personal ethics – everyone must come to their individual decision and make their own stand. Waiting for successful legal action is, obviously, one way to decide; however, as attested by many in this thread already, even legal proof may not be enough evidence or cause with which to take a stand. If products continue to be supported and purchased they will continue to be manufactured. Part of the question that must be answered – perhaps more on a personal level than on a forum or in a courtroom – is do YOU feel that this is an original work created with energy and artistic intent?

The ball-joint doll world is really quite small – the similarities of this DZ body with the already established and previously released Volks body are undeniable and deeply concerning from an ethical standpoint. The appeal of the head and the astonishing affordability of this 1/3 sized bjd are making the collector’s response to the similarities a struggle. Yes there are only so many ways to construct a ball-joint doll, however true innovation is being created in an exciting timely fashion in the bjd world and if you want unique you can find it – the Domuya Flex body, for example.

As much as we would like – in any human discourse – for everyone to feel happy and supported in their own decision and opinion, it is logically an impossibility to have it both ways.

 

Elle, I'd be interested in seeing a full photo comparison. Unless there already is one...I'm not sure, I haven't been keeping up on this recently ^^;;;

EDIT: NM, found it a few pages back. Hmmmm...there are quite a few differences but it's too close for comfort. :\

On the issue of banning...I don't think mods will band the DZ dolls that haven't been accused of being a copy, after all, the rules don't say other dolls of a company that may have violated copyright laws are included, do they?

 

http://www.denofangels.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1012555&postcount=427

Some photos are there, highlighting possible copied parts. Personally, I would like to see better comparison of the hands and feet, as well as the musculature (not just joints). Even better would be if someone could include a DollZone 1/3, SD16, and Hound body in the shots.

 

I think we should get DZ 1/3, SD16, and Hound with as many other dolls as possible. I'd think lining them all up with the CP boys, Unoa boys, Customhouse boys and maybe a SoulDoll boy would really be telling as to how much varaiation is possible in the overall look and structure of a BJD.

 

That's not a bad idea at all. It's hard to just compare one to another and leave it at that. As far as basic ball-joint construction goes, there are probably more similarities that we would like to think across the boards on quite a few molds based on the joint construction alone.

 

I have a Volks SD16, SD13 boy, SD10 boy, Dolkot boy, Soom boy, Hound, CP boy. I can try to take pictures tonight.

 

I've found two photos of a naked hound....
hope it helps

 

Hello!
I posted doll lineups in this post. The dolls in the photos are a white Dollzone Wing, a normal skin Dollshe Hound (Anu style), a Volks SD16 Yukinojo, a white Dolkot Kiss, a Volks SD13 Show, a Soom Rian and a Volks SD10 (modded).

There are pictures at the bottom comparing the hands, feet & knee joints of Wing, Hound & Yukinojo.

Let me know if anyone wants any specific pictures.
Thanks,
Anna

 

It's too bad the DZ boy looks so very muchb like Yukinojo's body, only stretched out a bit. He's lovely and would be a nice alternative to Boe's current Hound body...

But that knee joint looks so much like Yuki's knee joint. >__> I don't think I could buy a big DZ boy with a clear concience now.

 

Thanks. This really clears it up for me, I had some minor doubts before but now I'm certain the DZ boy isn't a copy.

I think the hands and feet are certainly different. The DZ feet are auctually kinda unattractive next to SD-16, enough to be sure they aren't a copy, lol. The hands aren't the same either. If you look at the fingers on the DZ you can see that the posing is different. The knees joints are somewhat similar but not a direct recast for sure. The SD-16 joint has sort of a curved rounded bump on the top end that the DZ doesn't. The SD-16 joint also looks like it has some sort of notch on the side to aid in posing, this isn't present on the DZ. There may have been some serious inspiration going on but it does not look like it's a modded direct cast.

 

I agree with jerrysugarav; to me this solidifies my belief that the DZ guy isn't a copy. Thanks very much for sharing this.