Dollzone Originality - Discuss it here.

No- so far, all the current MSD heads (including Xi) are beleived to be genuine.


The only definate copied dolls DZ produced were several years ago, and I beleive they were called Lynn or Nina. They were copied from Luts dolls.

 

Except DZ might still selling Lynn. I spoke to a member that bought the doll from them 2 months ago. She called it "Lynn2". Judging from the pictures I saw it just looks like they went and modified Lynn. That's not the type of action one would expect from a supposedly reformed company. But then I'm still digging up information on the situation, perhaps there is a misunderstanding on the part of the buyer. Perhaps not.

 

Here's a point (and I may get crucified for this) when Volks came out with their dolls, they set themselves up for being copied. When someone has a original idea, others design something new based on the original design, and then sell it. That's called Free Enterprise. Also, I doubt that the reason DZ dolls are cheaper is because of the quality of resin. They are in competition with other companies, so they are making their products cheaper to gain customers. That's called Capitalism. It's like blue jeans. They are all based on the same design. So can Stella McCartney be persecuted for designing skinny jeans when someone else came out with a similar design before her?

 

I don't post often here, but I think sometimes the focus is a little bit off. To use the example above, I think the focus is not on "blue jeans" itself. Everyone can design blue jeans, so as everyone can design a doll. The difference is if I get a pair of Stella MacCartney skinny jeans, alter it a bit, rip the label off, and sew my own label on and call it my own, is it really my "own" original design?

 

Ah.

I didn;t know that.

If they are still selling Lynn then yes, that is not the kind of behaviour one would expect from a company that is claiming to have changed.

Still, I would say that buying the DZ dolls that are definatively NOT copies is OK. But I would urge people not to purchase a doll that they knew was a copy.

 

I'm bothered by the fact that they launched a new website this summer and still included Lynn on that site as being one of their original dolls. Sure it's marked out of stock now to us on the English site, but has there ever been conclusive proof that you cannot still buy it in China? And why put it on your site after being called out on copying it if you really thought that you had done wrong?

 

No. You're right. You can't sell THAT pair of jeans. But if you made your own jeans based somewhat on her design, then sell them for a cheaper price, then no harm, no foul. Free Enterprise.

 

I thought i might add a few words to this thread! I have compared the dolls in question and i came up to one conclusion...they are simular but also different! Yukinojo has a more defined chest which is a little wider and has more muscular legs. I also think that Yukinojo has a big head but thats only my opinion. The basic design of the doll is very close but if you examine them both you will see they are different. My best friend has both a yukinojo and a Dollzone Cloud and me and her compaired the two. I do not own any Volks models because none have appealed to me but that doesnt mean that i may not in the future! A couple peope on this thread put it best by saying its up to the individual who is buying the doll! I personally love the balljoint dolls that Dollshe produces and i plan on getting a large Dollzone boy soon. What ever the outcome of this i hope that people will remember the beauty of the balljoint doll and continue to love and support one another. There are many wonderful and very gorgeous dolls on this forum who i adore greatly and many talented people.

 

I know that edendoll.com used to sell Lynn as a "limited doll," but on the official dollzone site (doll-zone.com), it's not available. Edendoll's also selling DIM dolls. They're dollzone dealers, but not dollzone itself. But because of Lynn, personally, I don't and wouldn't buy from edendoll.

 

As an artist, I'd like to say this:

From the pictures, if they did not directly copy/modded a Yuki body, they had one sitting there with them, or were looking at pictures.

I can take a picture and re-produce it almost exactly, with a little bit of my own flair to it. I can make it smaller, bigger, etc. It is not that hard to do. It's how I began to draw. Now, is that my own work? Not really. Technically, it is. But I can't go selling it. That would just be morally wrong on my part.

Also, the new company 'Laidoll' who has been making copies of Luts clothes has a site where they sell all DZ dolls as well. They sell DZ dolls and Laidoll clothing. I personally don't think this is much of a coincidence. Both are stationed in China, both are distributed by the same person on DoA, etc.

Personally, I believe DZ is iffy. They have copied in the past, and are under scrutiny now. They have original heads, yes. I am not personally fond of the heads, but I do realize they are original. It's the bodies in question that I have issues with.

I know a friend of mine had a DZ boy who another one of my friends tried to sand. Omichao, a modder, found the resin to be extremely hard and unable to sand easily. The resin quality was DEFINATELY different from that of any other doll he had handled. Whereas, another DZ doll he handled did not have that issue. For this, I'd be a little weary of the resin.

As it stands, I don't trust DZ. As an artist, I find copying completely shameful. In the world of BJD, it is possible to create a completely original sculpt, have the same jointing system of other dolls, but still look original. If anyone has seen the over-lays of the Yuki body and the DZ body, I don't see how there can be any dispute.

If anyone would like to put a stop to the argument, and has a Yuki body, I know a modder who can easily mod it, take pictures of the step-by-step process, and show how easy it would be to mod the body. I think the overwhelming similarities in the joint, look, length of the arms compared to the legs and torso, and the similarities in the overlay are too much to ignore.

 

However, Kei-Cai as an artist, you have to admit that everything that could be done artistically has been done artistically in some form or another. I know this because I too am an artist, and have studied art to earn my BA. Everyone copies in order to make something new.
Still, I will concede to the fact that DZ has done some brazen copying before, but so what? They used their own resin, and their own tools to make the dolls and sell them for less. They're knock-offs! Such animals exist! We either choose to buy the knock-offs or not.
Now, Wing, Megi, Cloud and others are not knock-offs. They have joints similar to other doll companies? For shame! There aren't too many ways that you can put a ball and socket together to make a joint, and it's a particular that I don't give two figs about.
Of course this is all my own little opinion, and I am in no way trying to change the opinions of others. Also, I'm not a DZ supporter. Yeah I own Megi, and I want a Wing, but I also love Moon, and I would love to spend an entire day at the Volks mansion in LA. In other words, I love the dolls. I love the creativity they inspire, and I love getting to know others involved in this hobby. Whether they agree with my thoughts or not.
Truly, I love it all. I don't think of this thread as an arguement, I think of it as a friendly debate!

 

Just want to add also, that people who don't know about the whole DZ issue will see Lynn there and think that she is an original mold. Someone who is new to the hobby might even think CP copied DZ!

Also, didn't DZ just come out last year? I've only been in the hobby for a month under a year now, and I can't remember if they were already around when I got into BJDs O_o

 

Put it this way....
How would you feel if your classmate copied your design for your final year project, which you have spent hours and hours working on, presented it as his/her own work. To add insult to injury, your supervising professor said to you "SO WHAT?"

If you are going into an career, be it art or humanities or science or any subject, you need to be very very careful not to copy someone's idea, write it with your own pen and present it as your own work and think "SO WHAT?". I nearly had my reputation wiped out for a missing pair of quotation marks by accident (Thank God they realised that I didn't do it on purpose)

 

For the jeans, I'm fairly sure it would be completly legal to take the jeans, take them apart, use them as a pattern, and make your own jeans with your name on them. What would NOT be legal is to take the jeans, make a pattern from them, make a new pair, and sell it under the origional brand name. For example, with fonts? If one pixel of one letter is changed, it must be marketed as a new font.

One thing I don't think anyone is pointing out is... morality aside, How Does This Hurt Volks?

The SD16 was a limited, so far as I know. And from what I can tell on the boards people buy Volks for three reasons. #1 They like the headsculpts. #2 they like the limited factor. #3 they like the brand name recognition.

Same reason as an expencive brand name can sell a cheap cloth pocketbook for thousands of dollars, while Walmart can sell an identical pocketbook without the brand name for $5.

I think we've clarified that the 1/3rd heads are NOT in any way copied from Volks, so that eliminates the first. The DZ 1/3rd boys are aparently unlimited, and after all this stink they certainly don't have much positive brand name recognition.

They're not going to hurt SD16 sales. Heck, as I've heard they're a LOT more poseable than Hound right out of the box, they may actually HELP future SD16s as they will set a good example of a 70cm doll.

So if someone with more economics classes than me under their belt can come up with good, solid, tested models how Dollzone hurts Volks more than other BJD companies, I'd like to see them.

 

Latidoll's new limiteds, Aida and Chaim, have black claw-like nails just like DOD's Ducan. Anyone accusing Lati? Nope! Why...?

Just thinking the whole argument is a bit unfair: so many bjds share similarities.

Edit to agree with Duae's arguments, too! ^_^

 

Well economically it certainly hurts CP. Woori is a standard model and here you have this company possibly still selling Woori knockoffs for less money. But really, it's not on economic grounds that what DZ is doing is reprehensible. It's on moral and legal grounds.

 

Exactly! I've seen some Luts dolls that look similar to other dolls but Im not going to just jump to the conclusion that they copied another company. It's like with everything else in the world today, you can only go so far with creativity until you hit a wall where just about every design has been done before and no matter what you make, it's going to resemble something already made ^ ^ thats life.

 

Actually the Woori-copy was produced Nov - Dec of 2005, so it hasn't even been a year since then.

Actually, patterns ARE copy righted. You CANNOT buy a pattern from a store, and start producing outfits on that pattern and sell them legally. Again its a "I won't get caught since I'm doing it on such a small scale" more than "its legal to do so." I know its a big deal with patterns, a lot of people who make Ren Fair garb spefically state that they are using original patterns and not a costume pattern they bought. Just to back this statement up:

From http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art21653.asp

"It is important to note that any pattern purchased is for home sewing use and not for producing garments for resale. Pattern companies today take a close look at how their original designs are used and work to protect their intellectual property designs via a copyright. For the individual sewer, purchasing a commercially-available pattern and making the sewn item for private home use presents fair use of the pattern and in effect honors the copyright. It is important for purchasers of patterns to learn about their fair use. Making a necessary back up copy of (often expensive) software where you are a lawful user for safe-keeping or re-drawing or tracing the paper-printed pattern onto another firm paper for preservation to extend the life of the pattern for your own use is acceptable."

 

I agree that Doll Zone definitely started off on the wrong foot and they have been paying for it by the bad publicity in the doll community. If they are still selling direct copies of other dolls themselves, this is also a cause for concern. At this point, try as I might, I have not yet found these dolls for sale on their site or related sites. If someone finds them online, they should post links.

What I have found currently on their site are some original-looking sculpts of heads, some of which I find pretty unique. While I am not a fan of some of their face-ups, I like some of their heads, especially on their MSD sized dolls. As for the similarities in the bodies of the Volkes and DZf dolls, I'll have to reserve judgement until I see them. I do not know what standards the court system that would be hearing the case are going by, or if it is decided by a judge or jury. If anyone hears anything about whether the case has been heard. I'm sure many people here would appreciate knowing. DZ isn't producing dolls on order like many of the doll companies, but producing them in batches, so they are not as unique as those of many other companies. This may be the reason some of the copied dolls might have been sold more recently, for if they had left-overs, they could have dumped them on a dealer to get rid of them without losing lots of money on them.

Ultimately, at this point I'm willing to give DZ the benefit of the doubt. They likely made copies at first because, well, we all know China is Rip-off central and they may actually have thought that's what they were supposed to do. They sincerely seem to want to change, however, and I really think they have the potential to do some original stuff if they stopped worrying about what collectors buy from other companies. I see an aesthetic difference between Korean and Japanese dolls, and I would love to see a line of distinctly Chinese dolls come on the market too.
When you are looking for just the right look for your doll, diversity can be good.

 

Do you have a link to this? I didn't see her listed. Also, does anyone know the link to the chinese website? Thanks.