Dollzone Originality - Discuss it here.

I saw it posted as a link here on the forum either earlier in this thread or another discussion, and unfortunately do not have it saved. It was of a limited Lynn. Browsing edendoll now, I see the copy being used to sell clothes.

Also, I'm definitely now questioning the Nina head. That looks way too much like Ken/Mika. Anyone else see it? I'm also curious as to what those familiar with AR's Ren think about Shoyu.

 

I...Shoyu doesn't remind me of Ren at all o_o
It could be the face up, but... Well the face shape is different (jaw and what) for one.

 

I think this is Doll Zone's Chinese site (unless it's Korean or something!)
http://www.dzdoll.com/dz/1-3-1.htm

I looked at Shoyu and Ren and they look different to me. Shoyo has a small chin , narrower face, and tiny mouth. I'm basing that on this photo on Eden Doll.

http://www.edendoll.com/en/webring

The pics on Doll Zone's site of her aren't very good.

Edit: The link to Edendoll won't go directly to the page. You can find a face-forward shot of the doll by going into the catalog and looking through the MSD sized girl dolls.

 

I am not sure it was Shoyu...I saw a Dollzone doll at a meet, and at first glance I thought it was a Ren, but upon inspection, I could see that it was not, so whatever doll it was, it was similar in look (for me, mostly it was the shape of the face and eye placement), but not the same sculpt.

As for the Shoyu pic on Edendoll, the eyes are shaped differently than Ren's eyes.

 

Maybe I've got the name wrong, but whichever doll this is - http://www.star-scream.net/images/DL003851_2.jpg - has always looked like it was a modded Ren to me and several other doll friends.

And there's still Nina and Ken/Mika.

 

Well you're not the only one to notice the very strong similarity between Nina and the Ken/Mika mold that's for sure.

 

At first glance, they do look pretty similar. It doesn't help that the DZ doll has a white fluffy outfit like some of the old AR promo ren pics, and a fairly neutral faceup, like the AR basic kits.

But the eye shape is different, and though that could be done with modification, the eyes on the DZ doll are also further apart than a Ren's, which is not something that could be modded. Also, the DZ doll has a wider face all over than a Ren does. The proportions of the nose and mouth are different, a Ren has more space between the bottom of the nose and the top of the mouth. Not a ton of difference, but since the mouth sculpt is so pronouned, I don't think it's a face-up thing. The kind of inverted triangle you can draw between eyes and nose is slightly different; Ren has a shorter nose I think, and it looks like the DZ has a slightly broader nose 'base' around the nostrils, too. I'd have to get the two side by side, or take a picture of Amandine in the same pose to be sure, but my thought is that it's not a direct-mold copy.

Other things, like the Ren having a sharper nose-line, and the shape of the mouth and eyes, could all be done to a modified ren; but I think the shape of the face and the rounder cheeks and eye width especially would lead me to believe the DZ doll is not a modded Ren head.

here's my ren girl as an example, it's not the same angle but you can see the difference in head width.

http://www.bishink.org/childofglass/gallery/2006family07.JPG

Also, AR LFs are so notoriously bobble-headed, I think it would be obvious if you had the two kinds of heads side by side.

I can't vouch for any other dolls though, and I can't say anything about the current copying debate, I don't own any of the relevant dolls. That's just my opinion on these two in particular. ^_____^

 

I love being a Libra. Libras waffle a lot.

In the last week I've gone from being convinced they were not copies to being convinced that they were and now being somewhere in the middle, believing that the big boys aren't but the little round-faced dopey looking new girls are problematic. (I much prefer the heads that have that obvious DZ look to them. They're just... so different.)

So, I don't know. I do know that I still want one of the big boys, but am happy that fortune dictates I not spend even that much money right now. This forces me to wait until the dust has settled and to presume innocence until guilt is proven.

In the meantime, I'm fascinated by the exceptional levels of similarity between some of the OTHER doll companies' dolls and Volks!

(yeah, go ahead and spank me, I deserve it I'm a baaaaad girl.)

(Edited because I'm a goof who can't spell. Geez).

 

If memory serves me right, it was Nina and Lynn who were the original DZ girls to be called into question.

Lynn was undeniably copied, and Nina was always under suspicion.

I still don;t think there is any reason to suspect the new DZ heads and the MSD bodies of anything, though.

 

This, obviously, is an absolutely inappropriate response into this thread. Volks is not the culprit here - as a matter of fact, the current discussion is about the Cerberus Project copy. Both CP and Volks are completely within their rights to take whatever legal action is deemed necessary in order to protect their artists, their work and their patented designs.

Please don't make posts into this already heated dialogue that will result in the entire discussion going off-topic and subsequently being locked. It is possible to discuss these issues without insults and ridiculous assertations.

Thank you.

 

I think you missed the entire point of my argument that the severe amount of similarities was what was suspicious.

Yes, the joints are copied from doll to doll. But when almost EVERYTHING about the doll seems to have been copied or only SLIGHTLY modded, that's too much of a coincidence for me to pass up. I love these dolls as well, and I love their creativity. But I cannot stand people stealing the creativity of others for their own gain.

 

Personally, from pictures in a doll line-up, the Yukinojo body and the 1/3 DZ body are, at first glance, obviously incredibly similar. I was so ready to find the differences because I really love some of DZ's work, but once compared with all the different dolls, the similar chest, all the same joints, the whole structure of the body made it glaringly obvious that it was definitely, at the least, based on the Yuki body.

With so many different dolls, all the bodies had different jointing systems, different chest shapes, shoulder joints, even knee joints. Then there was the DZ boy and the Yukinojo body. Of course there are differences. Legs are longer, muscles are different, but the basic design is TOO similar. This bothers me immensely.

 

I have an AR LF and a DZ boy, and I can garantee you that their bodies are incredibly different. The DZ body is about an inch taller and much slimmer, and the joints are different.
They also do not have the obvious AR "groping" hands.

I will say that the DZ 1/3 bodies look a lot like the Yukinojo bodies (And sorry to say I wish they didn't, as Yuki has a horrible body. That's really the only reason why I care. It's also the only reason why I'm leaning twards not getting a DZ Yuu)

Yes the copied in the past, but their new heads and 1/4th bodies are very unique. You can tell that the heads have all been sculpted by the same artist- they all have very distinct lines and angles.

But in all honesty, I really don't care. I'm incredibly happy with my Xi and that's all that matters to me.

 

And that is all that I think that matters. I love Kai, and I don't care if he's a rip off, which he seems not to so whatever.

 

I know people have suggested that DZ Megi and CP MNF El are the same doll, however, the problem seems to be that they look the same in photographs, which flattens out their face.

I met up with a MNF El owner at a meet when I had my Megi, and thought "Fantastic, I can take all kinds of photos showing they're different!" Because IRL, they are two completely different looking dolls. The scale is completely different, and not just in a "I took a MNF and stretched it" way. Megi's lips are also deeper, and his eyes sit further back from his eyebrows than the MNF.

However, when I got the photos home I discovered the camera had flattened the images, they *did* look like the same doll, because you could no longer see the depth of the lips or the depth of the eyes.

Personally, I am just sick of hearing about the Dollzone issue. Obviously most people have made up their minds and are not interested in changing their opinion anytime soon. I think at this point, actually, the vast majority of doll people I have talked to don't give a poo one way or another- it's just that the people who do are especially passionate about it.

 

I think I've mentioned this before but it could use a mentioning again. As I was reading this thread and another Dollzone debate thread, I tried to keep track of what was being said and came up with: Dollzone copied from Volks SD16's body, Dollzone copied from Volks SD13 body, Dollzone copied a Hound, Dollzone copied CP's Kid Delf body, Dollzone copied CP Moon's face, Dollzone copied Volks' Kohya's face, Dollzone copied CP's MNF El's face, Dollzone copied Volks FCS-F28's face, Dollzone copied from Angel Region, etc. I might have missed a few somewhere along.

Based on lots of assumptions, Dollzone copied from everyone. -_- The point I'm trying to make here is, it seems like quite a few people are leaping at the chance to have Dollzone labelled as the ultimate copymachine. When you're finding Dollzone's dolls having resemblance to almost every other company, it's probably time to step back and consider your objectivity.

I think wondering if Dollzone's new big boys' bodies are a copy of Volks' SD-16 body is valid because of the photographs and owners' comments, though it is not solidly proven to be a copy yet. But the rest of the resemblance to every single doll out there, I highly doubt. (Please discount Lynn who we all know the history of and is not being sold anymore - unless someone has evidence that Lynn is definitely 100% being sold and it's not pure speculation)

 

I think some of the other assumptions were people making shots in the dark, based on very little fact.

The 1/3 bodies, however, I think have very valid reasoning behind it with photo evidence and overlays of both bodies to give concrete suspicion.

I also think the 1/4 bodies being similar to the MSD bodies is valid as well. I have two MSD boys, and I've held many many similar sized dolls, including a DZ boy. None of them felt similar to my MSDs, except for the DZ boy. He posed just the same, felt just as chunky, and felt the same all-over. It was quite odd to me. =/

Now, I will say at first I supported DZ. I thought they should be given a second chance. That was until their 1/3 bodies came out. That's when I lost all faith in them.

It also disheartens me for people to say they don't care if DZ is copying or not. This is art. It's extremely disrespectful for an artist's work to be copied and pulled off as another person's own. =/ I know I've had people steal my ideas and art, and I did not take it lightly. Even if you love your doll, I do still think it should be of some importance to you if the company has copied or not. You shouldn't stop loving your doll, but I don't think one should continue to support the company, either. I really think DZ should stick to making their original heads. That would restore my little faith in them. And, because theymake their resin match other companies, it would be easy to find bodies for them. ^^

 

Much love to you, mithrilglow.

Do you guys ever consider the similiarities between non-BJD dolls? Walk down the doll aisle at Wal-Mart, and see how many dolls nearly identical to Barbie or American Girl or Bratz doll you see. Or any porcelain dolls. Maybe such things are not considered "art" by most people here, but I've collected other sorts of dolls for many years and it does not disgust or enrage me to see "copies." Whether we like it or not, BJDs are becoming more popular and new companies will begin to make their own attempts at bringing in customers. If Dollzone has indeed been inspired by other sculpts, I think they have attempted to give us what we like, for a more affordable price.

 

Barbie, American Girl, and Bratz dolls are all made by machine.

ABJD are made by hand, on a MUCH smaller scale. There are also wider ranges of differences between the headmolds because of how realistic they look compared to these other dolls. Every porcelain doll I own and have seen looks different from eachother as well. ABJD will never become mainstream, simply because of their price. I think if it takes copying to bring in customers, most of the people in this fandom would rather not have that company at all.

Part of the thing about being in this hobby is paying the amount we do for well-made, original pieces of art. If a company has copied, no matter how cheap they are, I'm not going to like it in the slightest. I'd much rather pay hundreds of dollars more for the original. Because that way, I know I am supporting the artist who originally came up with the mold I fell in love with.

When it comes down to it, I truly think BJD companies are, at the core, more about the art of the dolls rather than mass-producing the dolls, such as American doll companies like those you have named. I know when I went to the Volks tea party in LA, the President was extremely sincere and all the sculptors I met truly cared for the art of the dolls themselves. Even Mikey, who had brought her personal collection, cared for the dolls and the beauty for them, more than the mass-production of their product.

 

I was thinking along the same lines because I recently went to the toy store and walked by the doll and action figure section.

I used to work at Toys R Us and I remember that on and off, I'd hear of Mattel suing XYZ company because of similarities to their Mattel dolls and most of the time, Mattel lost the lawsuit because HEY, look at ALL the other fashion dolls around that in some manner or another, resemble all the other dolls!

I have a collection of older fashion dolls and I've taken them apart before and yeah, they ARE all remarkably similar to one another - the way the arms move, the way the knees 'click' so you can pose them, even the way the heads are attached to the bodies.

If you lined up all the dolls together, the only difference is really, the size and shape of the limbs and torso. Everything else works the same and a lot of times, feels the same because they even used the same materials.

Also, I have a friend who interned with a major clothing company and her duty was to go out and buy clothes that she thought were 'good ideas' and when she brought them back, the clothing designers would alter the clothes into something 'new' and then send it to the people who draft the fashions.

And yes, this is in the US.

And interestingly enough, other friends who have worked for other clothing companies report the same practice.

Is it all copying?

Is it wrong?

It seems like to me that they were working with the whole percentage rule - that a certain percentage of the new product has to be different for it to not infringe.

Apparently, this whole issue of 'copying' happens a lot more often than a lot of us realize I think.

Not that it makes it right, but...