Dollzone Originality - Discuss it here.

I appreciate your opinions, KeiCai, but I'll still maintain the opinion that there is a strong likelyhood that my mass-produced dolls were also originally cast and designed by sculptors who also cared about the final outcome. My grandmother makes porcelain dolls. I see many that look similar to hers. She cares about her works, but we are not offended. She has worked from other people's molds as well, and while she doesn't sell her dolls, I think the end result is original.

As you said, BJDs will "never go mainstream because of the price." This was exactly my point.

I am also glad these particular dolls have such a large and passionate fanbase, but it is a bit naive and idealistic to think BJD companies consider their profits irrelevant in light of their enthusiam for art. In the end, dolls are, quite frankly, dolls.

*takes her leave from beating the dead horse*

 

Just one other little thing though...
Dolls from different companies,
Barbie, My Scene, Bratz, Jenny all look different
Blythe and Pullip are different designs
Porcelain dolls, depending on their make and designer, also look different.

 

First think I'd like to ask is is there a thread or a post someone can link me too with the original information about a Lynn being perchased recently from dollzone? I've seen several people bring it up now but can't find the original post... I'm not saying it's not true, it's just I know how accidental games of telephone get started on the internet and I'd like to see a primary source.

Next: I don't know about in other fields but in fashion you wont KNOW that an item is inspired by another item. A common practice for designers is to go through magazines and find images that are appealing or contain elements they like then to grab those elements and make something with them. Often times the final garment looks nothing like the original, but according to some of the definitions of copying I've seen in this thread it is stealing.

Also in traditional art classes it's not that uncommon to have a teacher tell you to copy a painting or a drawing only change the size. Maybe do it in charcoal or pencil or pastels or whathave you, but it still be the same picture. That IS copying but it's copying to learn and the artists will say that they copied that image but sometimes will still put it up in a student portfolio. Why? Because the technical work is still theirs even if the creative isn't.

I'm not saying that recasting a doll and copying it would be alright. But the whole purpose for that % change in law is so that people don't monopolize whole ideas. It's the implimentation that matters. If one artist draws a flower in the middle of a blank canvas and then another does the same thing only in a different style and color... Is it copying?

Also, has anyone heard on Volks looking into the matter? I remember it on the site that they were looking into a possible copy.

 

Actually I said I was still looking into the situation with Lynn. I don't have any solid confirmation as of yet and it is made more difficult by the language barrier. If it's true then I'd definitely say DZ has not reformed, but there is no confirmation of that yet so I'm going to refrain from final judgment on that particular point. The SD16 thing is a totally different issue that I'm not even going to touch.

Though I've already said this before...I think once is enough for me. The copy of Woori is beyond obvious. That's enough for me not to support this company. But then that is my choice and my decision. I don't expect everyone to feel the same way.

 

I think I have mentioned before, there's also a cultural difference with Dollzone. We know that tons of bootlegs come out of China. We know it's an accepted practice, at least in parts of China, to make bootlegs. So I think a good deal of the issue, if there is copying going on, is that maybe that Dollzone does not fully *understand* that the fandom outside of China does not condone copying.

That is why I was more than willing to give them a second chance, even if other people aren't. They came from a business society where it is okay to copy, so they may not have known when they started out that the fandom would not view it as okay.

I think they were showing very strong signs of realizing their mistake when they released the originals (clarification: not their original dolls as in first, but their original dolls as in the ones that are not in hot dispute for copying), and that what the fandom outside of China will allow is not the same as what would be okay if they were only marketing within China. The thing with the SD-16 joints may also be a case of them not fully understanding that copying is not okay, since where they are, everyone does it.

They do deffinately seem to be *trying* to do the right thing, and I think it is important to remember the culture they are operating out of. I am not condoning the fact that China is known as an international hotbed of copyright infringement, however, I am saying that Dollzone may be located in a place where such a thing is standard practice. If so, it may be a bit harsh of us to say they should have known what they were doing is wrong. (And there is no reason to assume they knew about Forever Dolls, whatsoever.) If you lived in a part of the country where it was acceptable to sample food in a grocery store, then moved to another place where it was a crime, you would certainly be surprised when you were arrested for it, as that's not the type of cultural behavior you had been exposed to before.

The simplest thing to do is to NOT support any of their dolls you feel are copies, and do support the originals.

Again, before anyone argues it, I am not saying the fact that everyone does it excuses the behavior. Everyone up here runs red lights, and it still makes me wish there were a cop on every street corner. However, I am saying that is important to consider that Dollzone may not have actually known what they were doing would be viewed as being wrong by the doll community, since everyone around them is doing it.

 

One thing I would like to suggest to this, I vote that Dollzone discussion be limited to discussion threads. I have a Ying on order, and while I personally do not care if I post pics and get "OMG U support BOOTLEG U hor" "NO DZ iz NOT!" in comments, I know other people have expressed concerns about posting pics due to the controversy.

Plus, all the talk about if a company can be trusted because it copied one mold.... Well, people still buy from CP don't they? Even is CP has to sneak around and call new Ari heads things like 'head #7'.

 

That's not quite fair. CP has its share of problems, but as a company, they behave themselves. For instance, they seem pretty good about answering questions and solving customer problems... and their sculpts are consistantly original and unique.

Just because they chose to make the MNF version of Ari limited to the My Choice dolls doesn't mean they're on the same level as a company accused of copying other manufacturers... twice. XD

 

Man... this is just one of those issues, isn't it. You're either going to support DZ or not.

My biggest wish for this controversy would be that the people who don't support DZ stop *bashing* those who do. What I'm seeing, as a new collector, is an attitude from some of the more vehement people that really turns me off. An unwillingness to accept ANY other point of view as having ANY validity whatsoever. A tendency to take potshots and drop extremely-thinly-veiled comments about some doll companies in other places.

I really... don't think it's helpful. And truly, what good does it do?

Pass along information. Share comparative pictures. State opinions without being snarky. It's all quite possible.

I have to echo Duae... I see so many similarities between so many of the dolls from so many of the companies that it's hard for me to get excited about a hip joint any more. I'm still forming a final opinion. I'm always open to new information. But ... seriously.

*sigh*

 

Wasn't it mentioned earlier in the thread that CP has copied outfits from Jrock artists without credit?

 

Actually CP and LUTS are two different companies. Luts is a mere distributor and do not make the dolls. CP has nothing to do with the outfits.

 

Ah, I thought the original post had said CP was responsible, but I guess it would actually be Luts, now that you mention it. Perhaps my memory is fuzzy.

But people seem to be willing to view any shady transactions by anyone who sells Dollzone as being Dollzone's fault, so even if it's not the parent companies fault, what their dealers do can come back on them.

 

I'm not sure I agree with the idea that DZ didn't know it was wrong to copy just because there are many bootleggers in China. Surely a bootlegger wouldn't charge a lower price if they knew they had a original/quailty product to offer?
This reminds me of drug use, perhaps a person does drugs because all their friends do it, but they probably are aware that drugs can harm you.
I wouldn't buy DZ dolls. They copied, and I feel their 1/3 boy takes alot from the SD16 body. I've seen other double joints but they still don't look like the SD16 in the way the DZ 1/3 does.
I don't feel comfortable with them, but if someone does then they should buy them I guess is my point.

 

I think there was some discussion of if the MNF Ari was going to be replaced by #7 My Choice Only, as the Delf Ari was a copy of a Volks head, but it could be they're not.

 

Head #7 is frowny, and Ari was smiley? They actually HAVE a mini fee Ari and its a different head than the #7 o.o

 

This is a good point.... Even though I do not trust Dollzone, I agree they should not suffer a dent to their reputation for things that were not their fault but the fault of distributors. (I'm still not sure about the whole Lynn2 thing.... I don't trust Dollzone but would they have been that blatent? But they had released the doll in the first place...But they came out with original heads...too much vagueness to come to conclusion)

I haven't seen any bashing of DZ /DZ owners outside of this thread, and I hope I don't see any. There really is no point for doll owners to attack each other over what is essentially a disagreement.
I started to remind us that we all fans of the same thing when it comes down to it.
(Even though I really don't like the fact that DZ are available, I'm not gonna blame the owner for that!)

 

For this you are a much bigger person than some I have encountered. I think if more people were like you on this issue, that we could all come to a general understanding. I love my DZ doll, but I highly respect and value your opinion.

Also, I have put my opinion in several places within this thread and I believe that most of the users within this forum are kind enough to take thier unkind rantings on the subject of buyers elsewhere.

As for my on topic part of this. I think this may have already been asked, but I'm having a dumb moment and feel the need to ask. Was the Lynn/Woori head the only thing that was copied? Or was it on the same body as the Woori?

 

Just a thought, for those who believe that due to rampant piracy in China, companies there don't know it's wrong to copy - that's not true. I've been to China and I come from a country where VCD piracy is as common as air. They do know it's wrong, but they do it because they can get away with it. That's it.

However, I'm not saying that Dollzone is copying either. I still sit on the fence on that one. When it comes to deciding who copied who legally, its the legal system that will have to decide ultimately.

And here comes the dodgy part I was wondering about. I didn't hear about the rumour of Luts copying Jrockers' outfits...but now that I know of it...how definite is anyone? Half the fashion magazines have things from different designers that look remarkably similar. Or they get the same ideas and they run with it. As someone said before, designers actually flip through fashion mags to get inspiration. Which of course now brings up the topic that if fashion can be similar without being copies, what about Dollzone's 70cm boys...?

Zadkhiel brings up a good point actually. Apparently, legally, it depends on how much is being copied. There's a certain percentage that's allowed before it's judged as total plagiarism, I believe. And piracy happens everywhere, not just in China. Just that we're not aware of it.

I haven't actually seen abuse towards Dollzone owners and if there are any, I'm sure that they should be reported immediately before the other DoA users go and smack the abuser over the head. ^_^ So far, debates seem to be limited to the general discussion thread.

 

I think the Lynn head was the exact copy of CP Woori, if that's what you're asking. And yes, it's the only one that was known for sure to be a copy.