Dollzone Originality - Discuss it here.

The percentage rule has to do with copyright law though, not patent. The tricky thing with the SD16/DZ issue is that it's not just a possible copyright issue, but a patent one as well and patent law is absolutely nothing like copyright law. That's one of the reasons why I am totally witholding any judgment on that issue...it's just too complicated to get into. Not like the Woori/Lynn issue which is just straightforward copyright infringement.

 

Well, what I meant was if the Woori body was copied too, or was it just a Woori head on the DZ body?

Sorry, I don't think I was very clear ^^;;, I was having one of those days yesterday T_T''

 

Some time ago (I think three years?), CP voluntarily removed the open-eyed Ari head because of its similarities to Volks Nono. However, they continued to sell the Wink Ari head until it was discontinued. AFAIK, they never had any type of actual legal judgment against them, and it was *definitely* not a recast-type copy, just a head with very similar features.

MNF Ari is still being sold without a problem. Head #7 is a new sculpt, not a mini-version of any of the larger CP heads.

At least the hands on Lynn were recast from Luts Kid Delf hands -- not sure about the body. DZ has now put out entirely new mini bodies which are original sculpts.

-- Andi

 

I thought the patent was for the kips thing which was the silicon pads in the joints(sorry I haven't read this thread in awhile so things are a bit fuzzy). I thought it was established that the new dz's don't have that. Just joints that are similar though I personally don't think the joints are a copy just inspiration

 

I'm going to say it bluntly. If DZ ripped of Volks, then Volks ripped off Dollshe. Dollshe was the first to have a three part torso, and extra joints in the knees and elbows in a large doll. Also, Hounds don't have it- but Bermanns DO have the extra shoulder cap.

So if we are going to start making accusations, and pointing fingers at DZ, then it's obvious we should first address Volks for ripping off Dollshe.

AKA, ALL doll companies mimic each other eventually in some fashion. Eventually, there are going be similarities. And yes, one sculpter is probably going to get inspired from a different sculpt.

Put down the finger wagging, people. Even Volks had to have had a german doll that gave them the inspiration.

It's like saying someone ripped of another person for painting a picture of the same lake someone else did before them.

Calm down. lol ^^;

 

LOL Damn straight.

I am liking that DZ body I must say, but I am not too fond of their face molds. I wonder if there are any heads that would match them. x_X

 

Thing is, most people will identify a headless dollshe body as one of the dollshe boys. It's a bit more difficult to identify from just a headless picture which is the dollzone and which is the SD16...

And no one will confuse a German composition doll with a Super Dollfie.

 

I still don't think you're getting the point. Re-read the "Lake" and "Dollshe parts" again. lol

 

It's actually not that difficult at all. The proportions are very different, including the smaller chest. The knee joints are the only place I can see someone makng a case of.

This isn't a copy issue, you can't cast something larger than the original, it doesn't work that way. The sculpts can end up similar, but that's more inspiration than a blatent duplicate.

I've seen so many dolls that are similar, people just tend to love to make a fuss about things. I do know that DZ has copied in the past, but I think they have learned their lesson from that. That was also back when they were trying to get a company off the ground. They have a much higher income now, and are able to pay the sculptor more, which should lead to different (and more original) designs and sculpts.

 

the only Dollzone doll I have is a Jing. He's Yo-Sd sized. He's definately NOT a recast or even really that similar to a tru Yo-sd. Yo-sd's have extremely round heads, and his is kinda oval shaped. LOL He also has little "elephant feet"....it's cute. But nothing like a Volks doll.

 

I think this is all very sad in general. I do wish that it would be ruled one way or the other and put out of its misery by a court. As for myself I have a Megi, I bought him even though he was a mini due to the fact that I really like his looks a whole lot. I am not really interested in too many other male types of mini due to the fact that they do not look as mature. Money did not come into it as the reason for buying him as so put in the past. For about $100 more I could have easily gotten a Volks msd if I had wanted to do so, I could have made that extra money within a week or two.

I have looked through most of the pictures that have been posted here also, and while there have been some very vague similarities I cannot say that I really see that it has been ripped off. Even the so pointed out joint mismatch I am not convinced of. I am an artist and have worked in many different mediums, if they were able to do casting off of other doll parts and mod them to look different don’t you think that if they were matching up miscellaneous doll part it would have been rather easy for them to modify it to fit properly. If it is highly possible for someone like me to be able to do something like that I would think that it would be at least equally easy for them to do it.

Nobody needs to agree with me and I am not really here to go back and forth with anyone about any of this, I am just posting my opinion of it. I will say however that I rather dislike some of the preconceptions/assumptions about the reasons people have bought DZ dolls, it makes me question how involved I want to get with the doll community. I’m sorry if I come off a bit harsh, I’m just a blunt sort of a person.

 

I have spent countless hours working on my Volks guide. While doing my site, I've seen many images of Yukinojo, especially the promotional ones Volks did showing off his body back in December 2005. At the time he was made, no one remotely like him existed, he was based off of Volks' neo guy figure line. In addition to making my site, I've been drooling over fan owned Yukinojos since 2005 and have seen even more of his body. I can also tell a Chris from a Sasya, a Megu from a Cyndy, a Michael from a Licht, a Mika from a Yuni, a Shirou girl from a Jun. I can browse Y!J, see an extremely small thumbnail of a full length photo of a doll and still often identify it properly if it's a Volks one, am particularly good at guessing Mimi. All of that said, I saw a cropped photo of the Dollzone body the other day and thought it was a Yukinojo one. That really does not sit well with me.

 

Ya'know...this thread is so disheartening. I'm a first time owner and I brought a DZ Mowen. I adore his mold, his sleepy eyes and somewhat mature features. Reading some of you guys comments makes me feel like I should be ashamed to own him merely because he is a DZ.

I understand peoples frustration. I never knew DZ copied molds and it's sad that anyone should degrade themselves to copy other people and make exact copies of something. But, people gather inspiration and copy people all the time. When it's Fashion Week, all the high street stores are waiting for the next big trend to blatantly copy and rip-off the design/pattern style to make a cheaper brand more appealing rather than couture. It's just a matter of choice. You buy the Dior or you buy the Primark. It's a tough call but I wouldn't boycott/make a person feel humiliated because they own it and not the original.

I now mind you would think twice posting pictures of my Mo once he comes back from his time away to be modded. 'Cause I'll only think, are the majority of people looking at this thread thinking 'Wow, he's a rip-off of such and such a mold - sucks to be you'.

Like..I think there are strong similarities in DollnDolls Special Ruru and Dollmores Mellow Cole. But I'm probably out of my depth and weird to think there is a similarity there.

Edit: Also, money wasn't an issue for me. I could've easily saved the extra cash and got a Mini Fee and might do in the future [girlfriend BD!!!] but I fell in love with Mo so..thats that..

 

Calflove well said! Don't be ashamed of ur boy, before i received Rae i felt bad cos i read this thread, it feels like i should be ashamed of him. but once he got here i don't care what ppl say! he is unique and i think the new DZ lines look nothing like other dolls i've seen before. (head molds) really copying from who who is silly. yea the comparison pics are strikingly similar but in truth wouldn't it be harder to make a replica of another doll than to create a brand new looking one?

DZ has now taken off those 'copied' lines. It really bugs me how ppl reckon that DZ are not good enough just cos they're less expensive. If u manufactor the volks dolls in china it would cost less, it's just a matter of where they produce it. I still feel bad about Rae only cos he is a DZ but really wot's that got to do wiv anything. Some companies have been blocked or discontinued for copying CP and Volks, i reckon DZ is one of the biggest BJD companies in china like Volks in Japan and Luts in Korea (or DoD) so what is ppl's problems?

as for price, i got him cos he was less expensive only cos my mum wouldn't allow me to spend £400 on a doll tho i'll be spending that price on El later on the year or next year. Money wise i have more than enough to get a volks full option or a CP full set doll right now and when i brought my Mowan but i like DZ, i think they're a good company. When i first saw them in real life i couldn't tell quality wise, to me they were the same as the volks dolls i saw. It's not fair to judge a company cos they're from China. It doesn't make them bad.

I will prove it, Rae is every bit as gorgeous and nice in quality as a lot of dolls. He can pose better than others and is more stable (just big feet!) than some too. why should i be ashamed of him? for being produced by DZ? I don't think so

 

Thank you Yukihotaru. I didn't see this thread before I placed my order and only saw threads saying how well DZ's posed, that the MSD's have more mature bodies than others - something highly appealing to me since my Mo is going to be in his twenties. But it wasn't a selling factor for me. I hadn't seen any other mold that has the same facial structure as a Mo. I love sleepy eyed dolls so Mo was instantly a heart throb but I love his defined nose and those lips kill me

As I said before, I could've easily gone with a Mini Fee - I adore them. God I adore their Mini Fee sleeping head girls but I'd been pining for Mo for months and it felt right.

Facially, I don't see similarities in DZ's to other molds. DZ, boys particularly, have very unusual eyes. Their sleeping heads still look quiet wide eyed in comparison to a lot of other molds out there. With their bodies, how different or how many different variations, can you get with the human form? With girls it's slightly easier, you give them a bigger or smaller bust, narrow the waist or widen the hips slightly to make them look more curvecious. But with boys it's a bit harder. You can either make them really scrawny or give them a toned body. So the limitations are there so how different can DZ make their male bodies to other companies like Volks?

I suppose a beauty mark or something strang like that would make them stand apart but it's something that isn't necessary and if you wanted anything like that, you can do it yourself once the doll arrives.

With money, like you, despite my age XD My Mum thought I was crazy even to buy Mo. BJD's are an investment, no matter how little or how much you spend. Once you tally up what you spend on eyes, wigs, clothes, shoes, accessories, furniture, stands, carriers - you're talking big bucks! So really, people mentioning money should not be an issue. Not at all.

China are known to produce things cheaper. Thats why a lot of companies have their goods [particularly electronics] produced in China. A country of origin shouldn't be the deciding factor on whether a person should purchase a doll or not. It's all about craftsmanship. DZ's look well made to me and I've looked at a lot of pictures. Their bodies and facial structure look so good to me that where they came from didn't matter to me.

Once I have my Mo, maybe I'll risk taking photos of him once he's been modded. Just to prove that DZ isn't completely a bad egg.

 

*sigh*

Not this again....



signed: Happy owner of a whole raft of dolls, including Elfdoll, Delf, Serendipity, Volks parts, LaiDoll, DiM, Domuya, and FIVE DZ boys.

 

Yes this dead horse is once again being beaten.
~A happy DZ and CP owner

 

Compare their one 70cm boy head to CP's The Moon.

Compare Volks dolls to Alchemic Lab ones and then to Dollshe ones. There is nothing similar at all.

They all have heads with two eyes, a nose, and a mouth. Volks' faces run the spectrum from very anime to very realistic, just in their own company you can see three very distinct styles from their main sculptors, Akihiro Enku, Takashi Kitamura, and Noboru Ohashi. Enku with his adorably traditional faced dolls with their chubby cheeks and button noses like Ushiwakamaru, and then his incredibly lifelike faces like Heath that you think will just come to life and start blinking at any moment. Kitamura with his cavity inducing sweet faces with their big eyes and pointy noses like Mika, then his other more realistic faces like Yukinojo that you could easily mistake for a real human. And Ohashi's stylized chibi faces that still somehow retain a sense of realism, the way the Sei Tenshi all have expressive faces showing a large range of emotions, yet all look like the same race of little angels.

Gentaro Araki's faces have a style all their own. Eurasian faces that can seem to embrace one ethnicity over the other just with a slightly different face up. His love of facial expressions, and the way he specializes in the more taboo sexual aspects of dolls. He was also the first ABJD artist to experiment with face plates and eye positioning mechanisms, and also the first to attempt a greater degree of 3D by sculpting on eyebrows and eyelashes with his U-Noss.

Kim Kiyong's faces, like all of the other talented artists mentioned, range from the painfully beautifully realistic Bermann to the ultra-stylized Mai. He was also the first ABJD artist (not an owner doing one mod to one doll) to create an angry/sad doll with furrowed brows and a frown.

They all have hands; Volks' have somewhat plain poses and are on the chubby side and tend to be less detailed, or they have clasped, innocent looking hands never attempted by other companies. Alchemic Lab have very unique and expressive poses, some even made to grip..things.. but they are again not completely detailed. Then you have Dollshe Bermann/Hound hands which are in a realm all their own. The veins, the skeleton underneath the skin is all visible. The hands are an exquisite work of art, with them Kim's devotion to his craft is just palpable.

I could literally go on and on for hours explaining the tremendous amount of differences true artists can create to represent the human form. So no, there is no limitation to doll bodies, and no legitimate reason for any to resemble each other.

 

*shrugs - sighs* What happened to just appreciating things? I think this arguement is going to be mulled over again and again, making DZ owners humiliated because of DZ's past mistakes.

 

I personally think it' a matter of opinion and taste.

However, not giving someone the same respect because you don't like their choice of doll maker is tasteless.