Dollzone Originality - Discuss it here.

I'm totally with you on this! I feel the same way. >.> Hoo-Haa!! XD

 

LOL yes it most definitely is.

I don't think anyone should be insulting each other at all. The sole purpose of this forum (imho ) should be for BJD collectors to come together and share our love for our dolls and our experience and knowledge with each other. This isn't the place for petty arguments and fighting. Maybe it's a bit naive of me to believe that we can all just get along. We will all have differences in opinions and thats what make life interesting, lets just try and voice our opinions in a more civil manner. It's sad that people have to insult anyone for their taste in dolls, but I hope that other doll owners don't judge the rest of the community based on a few rude individuals. I have met many other owners who are good people. OK I've gone way off topic with this post, how members of the community conduct themselfs has absolutely nothing to do with the legitimacy of Dollzone. I think that even though being more open about the abuse suffered by different doll owners has been useful in pointing out how damaging a thread can potentially be to DZ owners, it really is not helping the original debate.
Lets get back on topic now

 

Just popping in my two cents:

As someone who has owned and seen/handled in person dolls by Angel Region, DOD, Volks, DZ, Mythdoll, CP, and various other companies:
DZ (minis) are -very- different from any other minis out there that I have examined.

Not only are their bodies longer and thinner, and their feet smaller, but the sculpting to their arms and torso is also very different. It's not too noticable in photos, but they are quite different; when I got my DZ boy, I had to make new clothing patterns because all the clothes I had for my other dolls were much too loose or short!

The new faces are also quite unique. I can honestly say that I have never confused a DZ mini for that of another company. Some vague similarities exist between some faces, but the same can be said for almost any company out there.

Yes, there were legal issues concerning the Lynn mold a while back, but it seems like DZ has cleaned up their act in that department.

DZ produces a product of very high quality (no seam lines, excellent resin texture) for a decent price, and I think they should be recognised for that.

 

Having owned neither a Volks or a DZ, I am totally un-biased. I'm not going to comment on the originality of DZ (because I seriously have no clue), but seeing as how the thread has been going, honestly, some of the company-bashing I see in the community sometimes is very unsettling.

If people are happy with their dolls, and there is no legal proof of it, leave them be. I think it is shameful to take matters into your own hands and make another owner's life miserable, just because the sculpt from a particular company happened to appeal to them.

At the end of the day, this is supposed to be a fun hobby, not something that causes people to be unhappy

 

I agree that the attacking thing is pretty stupid. There is no need for personal attacks. Some volks dolls are GORGEOUS....as are some DZ dolls.

I just wish there could be more of a range of respect, instead of people throwing around the "OMG, i'm more of a BJD collector than YOU, because I have this doll and you have that one...." Wether you love Volks, Luts, Dollzone, Blue Fairy or Soom, it doesn't matter people. Leave people alone, and let them collect what they want. If you don't like thier doll? Then walk the other way and go talk to someone else!
That's what i do. I am not interested in someone's doll, i simply either talk to them about something else, or i just don't talk to them at all.

 

Ok i'm not beating the dead horse and seeing as everyone has calmed down and stopped the arguing i am very happy to see we're acting more civilised.

I've been watching this thread and i hope what i have to say will make an impact to both sides. I am not saying i'm a resonable and mature adult, i'm still in my late teens and my parents consider me too naive and innocent. But what i do kno is this topic is very emotional and i for one am known to be good with sorting out other ppl's emotions just not my own.

Now first I would like to thank ppl for backing and cooling off.

Next to stay on-topic, this thread is to give each person's ideas to the other side so there shouldn't be any personal attacks. I've seen plenty throughout the last few hundred posts.

To the anti-dollzone ppl or the ones that are desperately proving DollZone copied. I as a DZ owner respect all ur views and i appreciate u telling me after i brought my boy. Although some 'evidence' is too far fetched like the MNF El... that was a bit weak of evidence. So far we have Lynn, and we kno that. Next the DZ 1/3 Boy body, this needs to be proven and we should base 'proof' from courts and the companies not personal opinion, no matter how 'good' a sculpter/modifer is. cos frankly i only believe what is hard-core evidence.

The 'frankendoll' comment actually hurt my feelings towards this. I don't understand what ppl are getting. I understand the feeling that some are feeling, i once brought a dress for a expensive price, then i see a copied version for lower, despite the poor quality and details. It's aggritating i kno but do not take this out on fellow doll owners. And branding ALL DollZone creations are replicas are mean nasty and narrow minded. The frankendoll thing, this i also think is too far fetched. Evidence and no i don't want detailed descriptions or images. A picture is never as good and i will not really be hearing from a biased argument.

Now to the DollZone supporters. First I kno some ppl were rude but some DZ owners were equally as rude and nasty to fellow doll owners. I am not saying this so ppl hate me, I am proud of my Boy and will always be but i just think it's not doing us a favour by scooping to the same level as some rude anti-dollzones. We should show them the good parts of our dolls and the wonderful attitudes that we all normally show.

Volks owners and DZ owners have been attacked unnecessarily in this thread.

To all the rude ppl that i do not kno if still exist in this forum BUT i will say this... Who do u think u are to assume we brought our dolls cos they're 'cheaper'? U think u can tell us we don't love and care about our dolls as much as other owners? and our dolls are of a lower class cos they're made from DZ? I can tell u this, once the dolls come home to the owners, they belong to their owners NOT DollZone, so please save your nasty comments to yourself cos it's not worth even commenting towards u. I have seen a few very nasty and some deleted posts that were quoted and those ppl are not fit to be classed as BJD lovers if that is the way they treat ppl.

I haven't met anyone nasty on DoA as of yet and i hope i do not meet any. But to anyone before u dare threaten my Rae, I WILL file for a court case against anyone that dares to threaten to harm my doll, in person mentally or physically. Those ppl who threaten, u are just degarding urself to lower than slime with some attitudes, i'm hoping some of the Live Journal threateners are reading this.

This is a long rant and a stand. I like DZ. I like Volks. I am not gonna turn one company against the other. Personally if i ever order from DZ again would have to be after the situation is sorted. If they've copied i would be upset but i would accept it. It just mean i'll never get the Yuu doll from DZ, i'll have to move Rae's brother into a different mold. If they haven't copied I will be over joyed and will still be a proud owner (i will be even if they lost) of DZ. Rae is my doll, I will not sell or love him less cos some indivuals find him a class lower than their dolls. To me he is as precious to me as my parents, brother and friends.

Also to some ppl on the side lines. Please if a new member ask about DZ dolls. Just kindly refer them to this thread. Do not make ur own personal assumptions and universalise the entire forum, u have no right to do so and are making owners of DZs as well as ppl who do want to buy from DZ uncomfortable if u tell them "no one will like u if u buy a DZ" or "DZ is an unpopular company" I think the person knows who i'm talking to.

DollZone or Volks, Dolls are Dolls. Owners are human beings with feelings and emotions. Attacking something they hold close to them hurts them very badly and those attacking each other needs to be ashamed of themselves. Mods can feel free to delete this post but i just feel i need this all to be expressed.

There shouldn't be an elitism in either of the companies. You buy what u want. If u condemn a person for wanting a DZ even after learning the past, then u can dislike them for their morals but as a dollowner everyone should be treat fairly.

Copying or no copying it is not our say. some are being over protective on Dollzone's behalf. Some are providing a lot of weak and often lacking back up evidence in hope to make DZ as bad as possible. Some think they are better due to what they believe in. DoA is a place for us to share a hobby, not to attack each other. Leave personal attacks and hurtful opinions to yourselves.

As a DollZone owner i have been hurt by this, more by the attitude of ppl rather than what the companies have done. As a volks supporter I find some ppl disrespectful and discriminists. As a Dollzone supporter I find it tiresome and silly, to let ppl kno, Rae means equally to me than your dolls mean to u so hurting him means hurting me.

Let's hope ppl can grow up and settle with facts, opinions and respect.

 

WOW.....That's all I can say is just WOW. Dude, I think you showed more maturity than anyone. Especially for someone in their TEENS.....Man...

I really like what you said. I don't agree with EVERYTHING, but you have some very powerful words there. I think most of us can learn something from your maturity and devotion

:: gives hug :::

 

yukihotaru, I think that is possibly the most important post int his entire thread. You've made some really good points, and I hope everyone on both sides will read it and realise there is an easy compromise; respect.

If we all stop throwing around labels like 'Volks elitist' and 'fakes' then I think we'll all be better off.

 

Hi! Have spent the last hour or so reading through alot of these posts. Ok, yes, I should read all of them and I will go back and work my way through.

But, I'm new to the hobby and had some thoughts for you all. Over the past three months, I have been researching my butt off looking at, what 20, 30 different companies that make bjd's... I do not have a fine trained eye. I have not seen in person any bjd but the Obitsu 27cm, Obitsu 23cm and RanD Angel Karen.

I have been searching for my "perfect" doll, the doll that just floats my boat like no other. I ended up seriously considering the Dollzone Demi.

There are MANY dolls out there that look so simular & identical that I've gone back over & over again to make sure which doll I was looking at. So many companies seem to have dolls that have very simular faces until you actually take a photo and enlarge it to see the details.

Mostly I have noticed this because I have been searching for a doll with a "happy" face. Not necessarily smiling, but who looks happy. It seems to me that there are so few bjd's that are happy! There are many dolls with the 'sexy' look or 'dreamy' look or 'tough' look, just very few that seem to be smiling. Ok - I also have to note here that I'm also not looking at 60cm dolls as they are WAY out of my price range.

I can not say the Dollzone has copied one or another - body or face. All of you make very compelling arguments for both sides of the issue.

My question is this... If i choose to purchase the DZ Demi (who incidently resembles my daughter, but older), will I in the future be scorned, well, maybe not quite the right wording - looked down/shunned/talked about/segragated/predujuiced against (shall I go on?) upon amongst others in the hobby becaused I purchased a doll from DZ? I have yet to find another head like Demi. I'm not exactly satisfied with her body (a little lanky for my personal taste), but not so much as I wouldn't purchase her.

I will probably not be able to purchase another doll for a very long time after this, and I find it concerning.

I have been involved with other hobbies where simular things have occurred, and there is nothing worse then being new, making an expensive purchase for something you really wanted, just to have other people in the hobby shoot you down because that manufacturer was not acceptable - even tho' the item in question was quite competitive with other manufacturers items.

I personally would never intentionally purchase an item that was an illegal copy or a bootleg. I also, while being careful, would not condemn a company who once made a mistake, but has seemed to correct it.

While everyone has made excellant points (as I said before) - it doesn't seem to me that there really is any solid proof one way or another. Again, mine is an untrained, unexperienced eye. I do not see alot of the simularities that you are all pointing out. I'm trying. I wish to learn and make wise choices in my new hobby. But I have to confess, I'm not getting it. Any help?

Thanks!

 

Well said on all counts.

Let me talk for a moment about "experts" and the legal/academic requirement to be considered an expert.

In music and fine art, in order to be called an "expert" you must have 10,000 logged hours of study in a particular subject. No, I did not misplace a zero. that is 10k, logged and verifiable hours of study. In the artistic definition, someone considered to be an expert has had hands on study of his or her subject. For instance, Rodin sculptures. To be considered an expert, someone would have had to have in-person examinations of as many as possible, in some cases actually being allowed to handle them. He or she probably would have been involved in the restoration of said sculptures, would have studied both forgeries and copies, also in person, and would know the differences between legal (authorized) copies and unauthorized copies.

In the legal sense, an "expert witness" is someone who meets this definition:

a person who is a specialist in a subject, often technical, who may present his/her expert opinion without having been a witness to any occurrence relating to the lawsuit or criminal case. It is an exception to the rule against giving an opinion in trial, provided that the expert is qualified by evidence of his/her expertise, training and special knowledge. If the expertise is challenged, the attorney for the party calling the "expert" must make a showing of the necessary background through questions in court, and the trial judge has discretion to qualify the witness or rule he/she is not an expert, or is an expert on limited subjects. Experts are usually paid handsomely for their services and may be asked by the opposition the amount they are receiving for their work on the case. In most jurisdictions, both sides must exchange the names and addresses of proposed experts to allow pre-trial depositions.

If a case of copyright violation or patent infringement were to come to court, the court would require physical hands on examination as well as the testimony of several expert witnesses, both in the legal and artistic sense.

As I am not an expert and am not claiming to be one, having examined the photographs supplied, I can only say that in the case of the DZ body and the SD16 body, I see many similarities of construction, but nothing that could not be put down to the necessities of construction, engineering and tensile/structural stress, in light of known issues that have cropped up with ABJD bodies over the years. In my personal view, I see no direct copying. I certainly see nothing that can be pointed to as an example of molding directly from the SD16 body. In my own opinion, this is nothing more exciting than parallel design, and the accusations of copying make no more sense than Toshiba claiming that Dell "copies" their laptops because both are a similar size, in a rectangular case, and consist of a screen, a keyboard, a touchpad, and an "Intel Inside" sticker.

 

i own neither a DZ doll or a volks one, and i'm unbiased in my opinion of them, since i don't really like most of their molds. they just don't appeal to me.

i wouldn't discriminate a company if there is no solid proof of piracy. and honestly, in some of the more recent 'heads up' posts, i don't really see enough similarities to conclude that "yes, it's a copy".

however, i do quite appreciate the 'heads up' posts here in DoA because they bring to my attention what might be a copy, and i can make sure that i'll be able to make a more educated decision if buying a mentioned doll.

right now, my opinion is that DZ seems to be doing a pretty good job on their own. i still don't really like most of their molds, but i'm not going to discriminate against them just because, you know, they did something bad before. i'm willing to give them their chance, and they seem to be proving that they've got their own style when it comes to dolls. so hey. :3

but if they were to make pirated dolls again, i would put them on my not-to-buy list out of principle. they got their noext chance, and still blew it. but that's not the case right now.

i'm interested in seeing how their forays into the other countries go. they've now got at least australian and singaporean dealers, right?

 

I am very sorry that u've been caught in the middle of all of this. I am not going to give u a biased view and tell u hsould support DZ.

I was new just a few months ago so i kno how it feels. Firsy thing is i'm very upset that ppl have made u feel insecure about getting a DZ. I am not going to flame anyone and hoped not to be flamed. If u seriously like Demi then u should go for it. If u don't then turn away. In the end it's about homing our characters or our dolls. My doll had no personality when he came now he is a mini bundle of resin attitude >__<

At the end of the day DollZone is still here, they provide us with a type of doll. There heads are definately original to say the least so Demi's head isn't the big issue. I don't agree with copying and will not tell ppl against their moral values but if u really do luv that mold, i will not condemn anyone that feel so.

With forever dolls if someone brought a doll in place of the CP copies then i will condemn them cos they luv one doll then got a cheap imitation. But with DZ ppl truly luv their molds so it's not exactly the same. Copying is theft. I personally can't tolerate this but "innocent till proven guilty" I will not tell ppl to turn away from DZ. Some indivduals have been doing so and have made new comers uncomfortable which is not what DoA is about. we should be welcoming.

pegapup: i'm still quite new but i reckon there are some things i can help u with. There are many ppl to help u here, don't be worried and misguided over the issue of DZ. some of the arguments are rude, silly and narrow minded from both sides.

 

I have a question for the moderators...

Why are we discouraged to comment on not "not liking the mold" or finding them "unattractive" in other forums but here it is acceptabe.

Am I taking this personally...UH YEAH.

Why again, is it allowed for DZ and no other comapny. I have seen numerous times where people where told NOT to comment on what they personally felt of other people's dolls.

What's the deal, and why have we felt it acceptable here, is that in itself not biased. Please, don't say well this is a discussion on the "orignality" of DZ dolls, then why have you allowed hundereds of posts in this very thread to start with...."I really don't like their molds, theyre rather ugly/unattractive". A good portion of the posts start with these very comments. Where is the moderating at!? I think you may find the discussion would stay "OT" and not be taken so personal by DZ owners if this were done, but then again, it's only my opinion.

However, if it is acceptable I've seen some Volks, CP, AR, DS, Etc. that are flat out fugly in my opinion, but I recognize it's only my opinion and has nothing to do with the love of the owner for their doll.
P.S. I said it was a question for the moderators.

 

Thanks for your support! I'll keep you in mind as I get my questions together! Thanks again!

 

See this is the entire problem I have with this thread. NO ONE should be made to doubt getting a doll they like, based on what others MAY think of them. People are not picking their dolls because of 'it's a copy of x doll', they are getting what they like, and there is nothing wrong with that. And all the negativety to the company spills over to the owners of the companys dolls, because people don't know the line between. (Much like people don't know the line between reality and fantasy. Heck we talk about our dolls having personalities, and basically being 'alive' when we know they are not).

I think this thread needs to be closed and a new thread created. One that compairs the originiality or molds of ALL dolls not singling out one company. That would be a much more constructive thread then this one has been.

-Anneke

 

Every suspected copy already has its own massive thread, this one has just gone on the longest because it keeps getting resurrected by people.

 

I agree when someone upthread said that the hateful comments about how much people "hate" dollzone dolls, is uneeded. I don't understand why those comments are being allowed. If i were here talking about how much I hate luts, or Volks, it wouldn't be tolerated. This is supposed to be a thread that debates wether DZ dolls are original or not. NOT wether you have a liking or dislike of DZ dolls. The people who are talking about how much they despise DZ dolls need to stay out of this. It's rude, and your comments are not helping. Discussing things like your opinions on wether a mold is copied or not is warranted. All other comments about your opinions of dolls being "fugly" or not should cease.

 

Can we have quote to back this up please? I know people have had rude people contacting them outside of DoA (and being cowardly it seems) but I haven't noticed very much of people saying they 'hate the fugly dolls' in this thread... Wondering if you can back up your statement.

 

You can scroll back. I'm not rehashing stupid sentiments. There have been Plenty of comments about PERSONAL opinions of the DZ dolls.

In general is what I meant. People are making nasty comments all through this entire thread. The issue is the dollzone doll that was copied. NOT personal opinion of Dollzone dolls looks or quality.

 

This is a huge thread and very difficult to moderate. If you see a post that is inappropriate why not report it? For all the supposed negative comments about dolls being ugly, we have yet to receive a report on them. Please use the report feature. It's an extremely useful feature that I encourage people to use when they see rules violations.