Dollzone Originality - Discuss it here.

It was winter of 2005, it was not a long time ago, all of this is still relevant and it's a very poor argument to make that we should just let it go because time has passed.

 

U mean Volks or DZ?

I should stop watching this thread. It just depresses me

 

It's not Volks' image. It's a Volks doll, bought and paid for by the owner, wearing clothes made by the seller, who is presumably the owner. I guarantee it never crossed that person's mind to do otherwise.

I also think it's presumptuous to assume that a company shares the same thoughts and opinions as its customers. Although I have to say I think it's kind of ridiculous if they honestly put that restriction on their employees. I work for Dell, I would laugh if they tried to tell me what sort of computer I could own.

Whether or not Dollzone has respect for Volks is not something you or I am qualified to make a judgement on. Frankly, it's irrelevant. They're both for-profit companies. End of story.

 

How is that enforced? Do Volks employees go to bed at night in the fear that in the dark hours, there will be THAT KNOCK on the door and their house will be searched for impure dollies? And if the employees are caught with a Luts doll on the premises, are they let off if they claim it belongs to a friend's little girl, or is there a renouncement and purification ritual they can go through to go from being heretic doll lovers back to being the Volks faithful?

There must be stories to be told about breakaway Volks sects.

 

I should think that it must be quite competetive to get a job at Volks. The Japanese are very loyal workers, and work hard. I'm sure that the people who work at Volks respect their bosses requests, rather than being forced or threatened. Not everyone has a problem with authority.

autumnrain- I don't think attempting ridicule of one company is a good way to debate. Maybe you are just making a joke but I'm thinking, imagine if someone made a joke about DZ being made by half-starved sweatshop workers or something. There would be absolute uproar.


Edit: Please reread my post, your response indicates you have misunderstod me. My statement was basically 'I think Volks employees respect their boss's requests' not 'You Americans don't respect your bosses fullstop' which you seem to have interpreted me as saying.

 

Respect is a two-way street, my dear. Just because a person does not allow their employer to control their personal life doesn't mean they don't work hard or respect their bosses.

 

Guys, I think that's more than enough about Volks and their workplace, thanks. Let's get back to the topic or leave it alone.

 

This is not in reply to 1 person but this topic as a whole... who gives a flip? If you like it buy it. If you don't don't. Volks is already takeing legal action. They don't need their fans to defend them any longer at this stage in the battle. Sure emailing volks and pointing out hey so and so company has a mold very similar to yours, is helpful, but now they know, and they're handling it, so just drop it already.

And no one needs to be made to feel like crap because they bought a doll they happened to like. I bought a DZ demi because I liked her mold. I haven't seen another like her. I had read all these flame posts and negativity long before I made the decision to buy her. I bought her for her, not to have a cheap copy of XYZ doll because I couldn't afford the original. As far as I know she is original, unless someone can prove otherwise, and even then, at the time I purchased her I wasn't doing so with the intent to pirate a copied mold.

She is great quality. fully sanded, assembled, poses/stands well, flawless resin, and an adorable face. I have no complaints. If people want to say she's not a real bjd, fine, if they want to say i'm supporting piracy, fine, but I agree with the other sentiments that no one should be made to feel bad about buying a doll they like as in being told it's ugly and cheaply made and inferrior, etc.

 

Actually Volks can't take legal action. I've heard that it's because Dollzone already took out the patent for the joint system in China, so they have fully protected themselves. But when I asked my Chinese friend about this she said that Dollzone probably hadn't as it would not be needed, as prosecutions in China for piracy rarely happen. She said they say in China '7 changes to the original and it's legal.'

Either way, I don't think Volks has gone any further with the lawsuit, as they can't. So all we have as far as official info is the notice on the Volks site asking us not to buy pirated dolls, (I feel it is only fair to clarify that this notice does not mention Dollzone specifically, but it did appear after DZ 1/3 boys.)

I doubt this dispute will be resolved legally, due to said loopholes in Chinese law preventing a Japanese company from taking action.

 

Chinese Law in China is really bad. I come from Hong Kong and u should see the desputes between the two areas, they've settled for "one country two sets of laws" to keep everyone happy.

I've read about the thing from Volks. tho the only thing about pirate dolls were saying they've sadly contacted the company and had taken action so i presumed it was the company that was closed down rather than DZ.

Just wondering, would anyone find it funny IF it turned out to be a false alarm???

 

Admittedly, i'm no expert on BJD's but here's my very humble opinion on the subject...
I just bought a Dollzone doll, i bought it because i liked it. I would have bought it from any company whether it was Dollzone or Volks or whatever. I suppose i will be dragged out of my bed in the middle of the night and shot for saying this, but there are so many BJD's that look so much alike after a couple of hours of visiting all the various manufacturers websites searching for my next BJD i honestly can't tell the difference between some them anymore anyway.
I can only say what i think folks and i apologise upfront if anyone is offended by my opinion.

 

If you mean Forever Doll, that was years ago. Volks' notice about this only went up in 2006. They could have meant Dollzone or Lolidoll, as Lolidoll had blatant copies of Suzuna for sale.

 

Presumably you are of the opinion that all questions that have been settled should be dug up and rehashed. I am not. It was settled, settled to the satisfaction of Volks, and any other assertions have not be verified by experts and thus are only personal opinions, slanted or otherwise.

 

Well said and Amen.

 

This is very true. I see dolls at meets/cons and am told what they are and I could genuinely swear to them being something else. It's all in the face-up and dress of the doll and you can pretty much at least find that one sculpt has a 'twin' out there by another company. Certain facial features sell, certain looks sell and what company doesn't figure out "hey this look for the eyes means more buyers for this doll"?

I'm sure this has been said one thousand times on here but...once again!

When I was looking for my first BJD, I did look around. I fell in love with the Xi sculpt and wanted him despite looking other places and for other dolls. DZ is one of the few companies I've seen that makes MSD-sized sculpts look more mature and I didn't want a my doll to be a 'child' look but I also didn't want one of the larger sized.

I read all the drama and still wanted a Xi. His pricetag was just a bonus.

On which note...business is business and as much as we love our dolls I think it is important to remember that. Volks is quite possibly losing business to other companies and (not saying this is true, 100% speculation) perhaps they feel losing a good chunk of it to Dollzone. The dolls are of similar quality and have a much lower price tag. Also my own theory as to why Volks might post a notice without naming companies...they have no proof and if they list anything specifically the company in question could sue them for defamation (or something similar, alert me if the terminology is not right).

Not that this is an exact comparison but if you see a purse/handbag from a designer label and it costs $600 then you see another purse you think is equally as appealing and costs half that price, which are you going to buy? This takes into account that one purse is not just copied from the other but is similar and really...they're both purses. It's all a matter of if you care about the designer or not if you like both equally.

In this situation...dolls are dolls as much as it pains me to say it. I entirely resented the fact that at a con I went to I had someone almost physically throw my doll back at me upon learning he was Dollzone and inform me that 'he's not a real dollfie'.

Whatever your belief on the topic I don't think that this type of behavior should be tolerated. Because you like a sculpt from a company that may or may not have done something in the past, others shouldn't think it is their privilage to abuse you or tell you how wrong you are. Same way with people who won't take comissions for certain brands of dolls (not just DZ). That's nice, you have a choice to do that. But you don't have to act all superior for not accepting business from people based on something as trivial as that.

Okay, rant ended. It went on a bit longer than I thought it would. Sorry.

 

It depends how authority is defined. If it is legitimate, intelligent authority, fair enough. The idea that employers have a right to decide what people do in their personal lives is *not* legitimate, intelligent or even sane. It's a fair assumption that wanting to work at a toy company is the result of a love of toys, not a fanatic devotion to a particular company.

Good call. I was highly amused by the idea of a doll company being run as a kind of combination of religious fanaticism and anticommunist blacklisting. When it's brought back to its actual subject, dolls, which couldn't, despite hobbyism, be *more* trivial, it is delightfully silly. Especially as there's no real way for employers to know what employees have in their home unless they're acting illegally.

The thing is, too, it feeds into the discussion in general. It doesn't seem to be just about copyright and patents, but an almost religious fervour extended to a certain company and the idea that they somehow deserve special love, devotion and consideration, beyond anything reason would demand. Without that, the fact that DZ have apparently satisfied Chinese law would have closed the discussion. With that - well, look below, and see the way DZ owners have been treated for having "heretic" dolls.

And perhaps a useful resulting discussion about whether luxury items such as toys are justifiably made by exploitative, dangerous practices in order to be used by First World people with cash to spare, and how that should affect choice of doll.

...? You Americans? I can assure you I interpreted you as saying nothing of the kind, especially given that I'm not American and I don't see it as an issue of respect.

Alll this seems ridiculously heavy seeing I was just tossing off a joke about something that struck me as being inherently funny.

 

It seemed to me that it might be very enlightening to post some links to silicon joint replacement sites. There is strong resemblance to current ABJD innovations, but of course, the human joint replacement therapy came first. If I were a doll designer, this is one place I would go to for inspiration.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/knuckle-replacement/AR00014

http://www.bonesmart.org/knee_replacement.php

http://www.bonesmart.org/hip_replacement.php

Perhaps a true story is in order here. In the heyday of science fiction magazines of the 1950s, there were two short story writers who seemed to have some sort of psychic link. Writer A would constantly submit his story to Amazing Magazine, only to be told that Writer B had just submitted a similar story and it had been accepted. This drove Writer A mad after a while. In fact, he was almost beginning to believe that somehow Writer B was spying on him...

Eventually Writer A and Writer B met at a science fiction convention...and the truth came out. Both of them subscribed to Popular Science Magazine, both had engineering backgrounds and both were pretty much interested in the same subjects. So each month, they would both get the same magazine, be excited by the same idea and write a story incorporating that idea. The difference? Writer A got his magazine in the mail about a week later than Writer B, and as a consequence, Writer B always beat him in sending in his story.

The moral of this true story is, as all engineers will tell you: when the source material is the same, things derived from that source material come out looking pretty much the same.

And when you live as long as I have, you see a lot of examples of just that.

 

It's not that it was so very very long ago, but that nothing new has come up. It's the same arguments around and around again. There's lots of info on both sides of the argument that people can read, but there's no reason to beat everything to death again and again, especially when it tends to create a lot of bad feelings.

You believe one way, which is your right. Other's believe differently, which is their right, and unless something new happens, people aren't likely to change their opinions.

 

Satisified? That's a rich statement. Obviously I can't speak for a company I don't work for, but I still find it very unlikely that they are satisfied with not being able to prosecute.


autumnrain- I see Volks getting alot of mocking, and I see alot of Americans with an entitlement obsession, so I just seemed to have linked your comment to those things. I appreciate your firm but fair response.

 

I think that's what everything boils down to.

No one knows what happened behind legal doors between VOLKS and Dollzone. I see a lot of people becoming very heated on the behalf of VOLKS, and a lot of Dollzone owners going on the deffensive, but the truth is, none of us know and will likely never know what happened. Whether you believe that VOLKS settled to their satisfaction, or that Chinese laws have protected Dollzone, neither sides in this argument can assume they know what really happened.

I believe that both VOLKS and Dollzone have put it behind them, and are looking to the future rather than clinging to things that have happened in past years. Dollzone is releasing new, highly original dolls that make people happy across the globe. VOLKS is constantly redesigning their dolls as they know that you cannot cling to one idea forever.

I do not personally own a VOLKS doll, nor do I agree with some of their policies, such as not allowing other companies dolls in their stores, but I do commend them for not squabbling over one idea in an ever changing industry. If someone makes something similar to what you have made, it stands to reason that what you have made is designed well. I don't know if Dollzone did copy the SD 16 body, or if the similarity in design was inevitable for a larger doll, but I know that VOLKS is not throwing a fit over the issue. They have persued the legal actions they felt were needed, and continued to create new designs better than ones that another company could have reasonably come up with.

I see the idea that VOLKS and Dollzone both need to be 'defended' in this thread, and I think that some of us are forgetting the basics of a Doll company. However much we love them, they are a buisness. Their job is to create innovations, beat out the competition, and make money. VOLKS does do some lovely things, like cooperation with the make a wish foundation, but frankly VOLKS is a buisness that can take care of itself. If it has decided not to persue the matter, it has decided not to persue the matter. Dollzone is the same. If they are legaly reprehensible, they must be held accountable, but if they are not, they should be left alone.

I also see a lot of complimentary racism towards Japanese people in this thread. Before I get lambasted with remarks, let me state that I was made, born, and raised in Japan. I am an Japanese girl that speaks fluent English with no accent or problems in understanding English.
The comment that the Japanese are very loyal workers, and work hard is very nice to hear, but only about as true as the statements, the Japanese are all very good at math, and that all Japanese girls are small willowy beauties.
Just because I am Japanese, I do not allow my boss to tell me what I may and may not do when I am off the clock, as long as I am not contractually obligated to do so. If I worked for VOLKS, and they did include in my contract that I was under obligation not to appear in public with a non-VOLKS doll, I would honor that obligation, but I would still own my Tender Too and H.Ducan at home.
Just because a person is Japanese does not make them any more or lesss likely to worship their bosses than someone who was born in America. I've known girls who work at VOLKS stores to own non-VOLKS dolls, and I've known VOLKS workers to admire other dolls. I've also met people in Japan who think that anything that isn't made by VOLKS isn't a real doll.
I see a lot of people making assumptions about Japanese people when they are not Japanese, nor are they aware or informed of contemporary Japan.
For all we know the 'owning only a VOLKS doll' rule may be an actual legal obligation, or it may be an unsaid rule. If you do not personally know everyone who is an VOLKS employee, there is no reason to assume that everyone would follow these 'requests' as you would. And if VOLKS makes a request of its employees to own only VOLKS dolls, it is up to the indivisual to comply to the request or not as they see fit.

The only issues that I see that are still of issue are the copied Woori, which is no longer for sale on the Dollzone website, and which we assume LUTS has settled the matter amongst themselves since Dollzone is still in buisness, and the issue of the allegedly copied SD body, as it also seems to be settled with VOLKS as they are not currently pursuing legal action with Dollzone.

I also believe that since Dollzone does not make note of the indivisual sculpters, the person who copied Woori may not be the same person who created all of the other head molds for the doll, so it is rather silly and bad form for someone to act in an agressive manner towards a doll because it is a Dollzone doll. We all gathered on this forum because our love of all dolls, not because we are purists who believe that there is only one company that deserves our unconditional love. We as indivisuals may not favor certain sculpts, but we are required as a community to be civil about them.

That being said, every thing I have said here is purely my opinion based on the experiences I have had, and I believe that each person on this board is allowed their own opinions, and the right to voice them.