Dollzone Originality - Discuss it here.

Completely agree with you Michiko! That was definately the point I was trying to make earlier. There are only so many variations of a doll you can do. The only way you are going to get original is if you start adding a third limb or something and while interesting wouldn't have the same appeal.

 

I wouldnt say $100 (£50) was cheap, my pullips cost me £50 a time I usually think about it for a very very long time before I buy them to make sure I REALLY want them. so to me my DZ boy was still expensive, and when my EL arrives he's just even MORE expensive! lol Im not working ATM and the job I was in was very low end of the pay spectrum...

Maybe people who have been in the hobby for a while kind of get Numb to the cost? I mean when I told my friends and father how much my pullips cost they about fainted, but when Faye arrived they were even more shocked ^_^; I havent even told them how much my EL will be lol, the reactions always the same "you spent HOW MUCH on a DOLL!"

 

I would just like to point out, and maybe someone else has said this, that a "cheap" price is not always a reflection of the quality of the item. Often, a new company trying to break into a competitive field, will introduce their product with a lower price to get people's attention, and to make themselves a more attractive option than the higher-priced, but not necessarily better quality, well-known brand.
Then, once the new brand becomes established, the prices go up. You can see this happening with DollZone. I suspect that it will also happen with Angel of Dream, once they become more established, because they have truly lovely, well-made, high quality dolls.
Think of cars. In the United States, when Toyotas, Hondas, and Volkswagons were first introduced, they were considered "cheap" imported cars and an affordable option to the more expensive American made vehicles. Not so any more.
In my opinion, doll pricing has more to do with economics and marketing than it does on reflecting quality or innovation.

 

Don't you dare feel bad about owning a doll you love!!!

Truth: DZ, when it first started, is alleged to have copied a Volks mold. The doll was pulled from manufacture. It has NEVER happened again. The odds are seriously against you owning that particular doll so why worry?

Personally, I own 3 DZ Xi dolls and 1 DZ Mo and I'm going to get one of the new Hid dolls and a Fox. Unlike so many people I don't hold one mistake against a person or a company.

And straying away from my direct response to Tashayarna let me take a moment to explain why the constant endless placing of everything DZ does under a microscope makes me want to hurl things (as well as just hurl).

It is a truth that people make mistakes as do companies. Now can you imagine what life would be like for you if a mistake you made in your past - intentional or not - continued to haunt your every move thereafter? Particularly if you have worked to redeem yourself and NOT made that mistake again?

When I was a teenager I shoplifted. I did it because it seemed so easy I just thought I could. I was wrong. They caught me before I'd even left the store, dragged me into a back room, called my parents and, because it was my first offense let me go with the only punishment being banned from the mall for a 6 month time period.

I not only honored that punishment, I was so personally shamed by my actions it was 2 years before I went there again. I never reentered that store. Not only have I never stolen a thing again I saved a friend of mine from being taken as a shoplifter when she quite unconciously put something in her pocket (you'll have to believe me, but it really was not intentional). Because I was never officially arrested, and a juvenile, I have no record. But what would my life be like now if that mistake had tarred me forever? I would have never worked in a comic book store for years - they can't afford to staff thieves - and would have missed out on wonderful experiences and good friends. Two years after i shoplifted I worked in a rarities/collectibles/comic store and I got to see autographs from people like Marilyn Monroe and John Wayne. I handled (gently) comics worth hundreds of dollars, and even some rare dolls. How lucky I was that I was granted the chance to redeem myself and not be permanently branded a thief because I was stupid once.

Someone said DZ made their mistake in 2005 right? Well it's been 2 years for them now too and I think it is time this dispute - because it ceased to be an intellectual discussion a long time ago - was put to bed.

If the mods here at DoA had any conscience they would have locked or removed this thread when the issue became moot. One can only assume they don't because they really don't care if they have a thread that's mere existance opens the door to people (so sorry to borrow the offensive phrase) beating a horse that isn't just dead, it's pretty well skeletonized at this point. Then again, maybe they actually enjoy it, although I can't see why.

Isn't it time we all moved along people? The train-wreck is over, the remains have been cleared away and not even an oil slick marks spot where it happened anymore. You DZ detractors have planted your memorial cross on the side of the road already - we've all read it and hey, even some of us DZ owners sympathize and agree that what happened was wrong - but now it's time to get one with life.

And in one final word about originality of BJDs and who made them first...they were being sculpted in BISQUE and probably even carved out of wood long before Volks went from being a maker of anime figure garage kits to a doll company. The person who invented the idea of the ball joint is long dead - as is this topic.

 

I'm sorry, the doll in question was a CP/Luts Woori, not a Volks doll.

 

I agree with everything you said but this. This thread had been left dead for almost a mont (maybe less) until the new pet dolls came out. Many of those asking about DZ read this thread and got scared. Scared of being shunned from the community, from meetups, etc and questioned their purchase of a doll they really wanted/loved. I agree that this thread may be up for the purpose of proving originality by Dollzone but I honestly agree with some of the others that the thread has been revived numerous times by those not liking (I want to say attacking but that is definately too strong of a word) and wanting to constantly question the sculpts/motives of Dollzone.

Before I bought my Dollzone Wing I read through this topic over and over again. Every post of it. Besides the original problem with the Woori doll and the pictures of the large Volks doll there were tons of posts of people just randomly grabbing at straws, picking head sculpts that looked nothing alike except for certain eye characteristics. It was like people were just out searching for something Dollzone had done wrong. It terrifed me to read some of the threads and I almost felt wrong for buying a Dollzone but I new that I couldn't find any other doll like my Wing. His face was perfect for the character I was purchasing him for and went for it and couldn't be happier.

Like I have said numerous times before... why not have this as a thread that questions any and all suspicious dolls.

I understand that Dollzone has copied before, I think they have redeemed themselves, others haven't and thats perfectly ok with me. But when it scares other people who love the dolls off its kinda sad. I know there are a number of dolls that have been questioned in the past couple months .. the Laura's Dream Dolls which were banned, and another one that is being sold on ebay.. Dynadoll I think. People are not questioning these as much b/c they haven't succeeded yet as companies.

I think Dollzone is questioned more because they are successful and it puts them more out in the eye of the doll community. But I've said it once and I'll say it again. Maybe its time to condense this into originality of all companies or at least all those that have been questioned of copying instead of pulling out the one company. It is hurtful to some new doll owners and those thinking of purchasing dollzone dolls.

Sorry if this came out jumbled... I had a two year old sitting on my lap at the time so I was kinda distracted.

 

I agree. this thread should simply be,

"hey look DZ copied 2 years ago. just so you know. here’s some pictures, they don’t copy any more end of."

But its just beating a dead horse. and maybe it is because people love to slag off DZ, everyone loves a bad guy. also people often find it an easier subject to join in on if its slaging something or someone off, it doesn’t involve much insight or research where as a lot of the other topics on here require some understanding of BJD that newbs may or may not know.

if this was a thread about any other doll/company I don’t think it would have carried on for nearly this long. It would have been forgotten and locked/deleted, truth is whilst this topic is still getting the “page views” its going to stay up.

Not reading this topic isn’t the answer. Try telling someone who has an ED page on them to “just ignore it” its talking about you behind your back.

It makes owners of Dollzone feel like second rate BJD owners. that’s how it makes me feel. that’s how it makes most of the Dollzone Owners that have replied to this thread feel.

Also if people who buy DZ buy a new doll, that’s just come out and wonder why everyone at meets keeps giving them funny looks, they wont know why, Because they wont have read this topic and read what new “magical Plagiaristic” theory is out now, even if its not true, that person will be sitting there wondering why people wont look at or hold there doll,

YEAH great way to get into the Community spirit at someone’s first meet.

This thread should be deleted, and a new one started, with the first so many posts saying just what I said above. "DZ copied, here’s some pictures, they are legit now."

And same goes for other companies who have copied, and companies that try and sell fake dolls, to just separate out one company is wrong, and puts people off, puts them off the community, it puts me off, it puts other people off these dolls because people still think they are a bad company.

and TBH if the mods did care, they would listen to us. so many people have called for this thread to be deleted or locked for good. why is it such a problem to have this done?


A new thread should be started not specific to any one company.

 

I don’t feel bad for owning him. I feel bad for the other newbs out there who don’t have the same attitude as me "like I don’t give a f**ck what you think"

Some people are going to read this and choose there second choice doll over having a DZ, rather than risk the prejudice....

I LOVE my Fayeveeaine, and even when I get my other none DZ dolls I will still Love him.

On a lighter not, If anyone has a problem with Faye at meets I’ll just tell people they don’t have to touch him if they think his “poor quality” resin will somehow infect there precious Volks with “resin rot” or something… ^_^; lol

 

Oops, my bad on that. I guess with all the mentioning of lawsuits and volks I always assumed that it was one of their dolls being copies. I happily stand corrected.

Actually I made a generalized comment about a group of people. I don't know any DoA mods personally therefore I could hardly make a personal attack against any of them. I won't claim it wasn't mean and perhaps shocking - but it seems that works to draw attention to an issue - which was my purpose.

Yet would it not be more efficient and less likely to breed situations like the recent "oh look, DZ made a bunny so it must be a copy of Pipos" if you simply had an unbiased statement of what the facts are of the DZ situation posted somewhere? I mean I made the mistake of thinking all this time it was a Volks doll they copied - because that seems to be all I ever read in this thread (and no, I'm not gonna lie and claim I read it all).

I'm sure there is a DZ area somewhere around here where you could pin a message that simply outlines the facts (not speculation, not opinion, not anything else) like this:

A) In X year DZ released X doll that was a copy of CP/Luts Woori
B) In X year DZ ceased production of X doll though remaining stock may have been sold
C) Since that time no further DZ doll is a copy and the company is safe to purchase from.

If the purpose of keeping this thread alive is so people new to the hobby can have the question answered then don't you think that a factual statement like that would better serve the purpose than asking them to weed through an epic length thread that has some pretty nasty statements in it from both sides?

I'll be honest with you - I don't hang much in DoA outside of the Angel of Dream and Bobobie forums even though I own more DZ dolls than others. And why? Not because I've actually read all the DZ controversy here, but because I have heard about the issue from so many other people in so many other doll places that the reputation of DoA as a place to be avoided like the plague by anyone who loves their DZ dolls was enough to eliminate my curiosity. I have found better places to share that love.

So why did I show up here today?

A) because someone told me about the post where a person commented on feeling bad for owning a DZ and that ticked me off because

B) I'm female, in the early stages of menopause, and having a really bad PMS day today (which is not being said as an excuse, merely a statement of fact).

 

Really, I think this whole DZ thing is speculation. Everyone is quick to call a company down without knowing all the facts. Same thing was happening with Dolkot and DIM. Everyone was quick to bash Dolkot when it now looks like they were innocent and Deny's (DIM) own team betrayed him. All in all, I would like be pointed in the direction of some hard evidence of what happened. Because word of mouth is not reliable source of anything. It just become like you're playing a game of telephone.

End the end if you are not buying the said doll that is 'copied' why should you have fear if purchasing from DZ? People makes mistakes and so do companies and I just don't get why people would be rude about an owners doll based on company. IF the quality is good and the service is good, what's the fuss?

 

My point to a T ^_^

 

as far as I know its all on the first page of this topic.

 

What I mean is, is there a court case about this? Or is everyone just drawing opinions from photos.

 

With the Lynn/Woori case back two years ago (from my understanding).. Dollzone was accused and took the doll down and no longer sold it.

With the Volks doll case there has only been comparison pictures posted here and talked about, no court cases have been in place and no legal action. (again my understanding of reading the thread)

 

Oh I completely agree with that some people believe that DZ copied and don't want to buy them. Just like purchasing from them was my opinon choice.

I complete understand the point of leaving the Dollzone thread up at this point so people can make an educated decision over their dolls. But from looking at the thread at this point there are simply one major case where Dollzone was proven to have copied. And the other is a very large and justfied speculation. Besides that all I see is either an attack(that may be to strong of a word) or people defending Dollzone. Maybe it could be locked, like it has been before. Because at this point, its merely a back and forth of some people defending them and then others making accusations that they could not back up (example: the person who stated the new petdolls were simply badly modded Pipos). It seems at this point that there are really simply accusations, hurt feelings, and anger going on the thread. There is no real fact/benefit past what is in the very early parts of this topic.

And definately agreed that there needs to be a new topic created in this thread for originality of all dolls. Now if I can only figure out a way to eloquently start a thread... my research paper for school is currently frying my brain.

 

okayy they also removed my comment about them removing my picture ^_^; LOL Im sure they have to tell you or warn you before deleting things ^^;

 

i get the feeling the DZ owners wouldnt care about this if it wasnt about DZ dolls. i dont mean to cause more arguments but clearly the love of your dolls is skewing perspective

 

No, Mods do not have to warn you before deleting anything. Please keep this discussion on topic.