Edited - Are the Minimee Sculpts Original?

Thank you very much for coming to post here, Denny.

 

Denny, I think it's seriously incredible what you and your team do. I think it's a very brilliant idea and a wonderful new development in dolls. I just had to say that... It's unfair that you have to defend yourself all the time with people saying the dolls don't actually look like the celebrities when in scultpting it is very hard to acheive likeness. I think DIM does an amazing job.

 

Also, when people see a minimee sculpt, they don't always see the person or character it's meant to be representing. I got a JD head with my minimee body and saw him as a red-haired rocker type. I love the 'cloud' head, but have no idea what the game/anime is about. It's just a lovely head with loads of personality. I've ordered a couple of minimee heads, but whether they will become the people they're meant to be is hard to say. I find when they get here that the heads take on a life of their own. As none of mine look like the celebrity they were created for, I fail to see the celebrity in question getting offended. Already there are a lot of Angelina Jolie lookalikes on the forum, and not from DIM, I don't see those people getting criticised either. I've seen several people turn a doll into a well known Sci Fi movie character and get commended for their effort. Most people accept it's being done as a tribute.

 

Thank you and you're very welcome.
I got e-mail and messages from my favorite friends here and first time, I didn't want to write anything becuase English is not my first language and I am still in the middle of learning English for myself and I might not able to express my feelings well in English.
And sometimes, very small things bother me in many ways if something is not completed.
That's why I tried to explain about minimee project who do not know much about it.
now everything is up to individuals, but please try not to argue.
Because this kind of issue makes people unhappy and give stress ^^

If there is anything wrong and needs to be solved, it will be between celebrity or their representative and me.
This is my persomal view about this issue.

Thank you.

Denny

 

Well, of course, context. ^^ I mean, there's principles as in "I won't pay to see a single movie with that woman in it", and then there's Principles as in "I'm chaining myself to this bulldozer until you agree to let that tree stand where it is". Obviously my example was on the light/silly side! I was agreeing with your example that people DO tend to behave inconsistently when it comes to things that they love/want, because desire is such a powerful thing.

When it comes to dolls, though... of course people don't like to be called hypocrites about their hobby choices, it's hurtful. We're imperfect things, and nobody likes to admit the times when their urges don't add up to their ideologies. (I don't think they always have to add up, though.) It takes a lot of practice to admit it to yourself, let alone speak up with it in front of your peers. "OK, OK, I'm a hypocrite about this!" is hard to say out loud, without struggling to justify it... if only because you already know the reaction you'll get. I was feeling very hypocritical indeed about that whole Angel Sanctuary thing, which was why I kept my mouth shut; big bad Ideology didn't stand a chance against that gorgeous Lucifer doll.

 

I think it's the equivilant of painting a portrait of a person from a living model vs. copying an existing painting by another artist.
Is the former copying? No. It's the likeness of the subject in anotehr medium.
Is the latter copying? Most definately.
Minimee is simply creating good likenesses in resin and, last I checked, that's not considered copying, it's just good sculpture.

 

I find it weird that this is being brought up when Minimee's have been in production for about year now? I guess some people come in later though.

I absolutely agree with Arrowchild that the Minimees are simply taking a likeness of someone into another medium as a form of artwork and is therefore not copying anything.

 

It actually seems to come up every couple of months, it's just usually worded differently in some way or other.

 

I have a unique perspective on this as a sculptor who gets hired to reproduce artwork/images on a 3d scale. Even with copywrited work, you can be hired to produce the image, so long as its for a personal collection, and not for wide spread distribution. For instance, I have been hired to do images of Wolverine, but not from marvel but from a personal collector.

Dim has two things going on which makes it perfectly legal. 1) it is a single order/buyer on their end who is paying for the service of the sculpt and cast. As opposed to buying a premade doll. 2) The limit of the number assures that it is kept as a personal collection rather than a mass production.

I think its a very good topic for debate tho, not an attack on Dim in perticular.

 

Kiskalla: Your opening post is worded very strongly. Using words such as 'madness' and 'ridiculous' does not leave anything open to debate. I can't tell you how to behave, but I'd like you to be more careful of people's feelings, namely the people who love their minimees. I don't think the Dolly Debate area should be used as an arena to put people down. I'm sure you could make your point just as clear whilst being just a little less harsh? I am definitely not trying to tell you what to do, it's just a suggestrion you can take or leave.

As for the question I think is being asked: I don't believe sculpting dolls based on celebrities is the same as recasting other dolls.

All the work is in the sculpting. Celebrities didn't work to make their face, they were born with it, though obviously some change theirs with plastic surgery. Doll sculpters work hard to make the doll faces from a lump of clay. To me this difference seems huge.

Denny's minimee team make the dolls. They didn't go and drug someone and take a cast of their face! Forever dolls were a cast of Volks dolls.

This is a long-running debate: Is recasting the same thing as sculpting a doll highly inspired by another? Though the question here is of course, 'Is recasting the same thing as sculpting a doll highly inspired by an image not belonging to yourself?

Personally, I do not think it's the same thing, because it's the sculpter who does the hard work.

 

Seems like someone has not done their homework.....if anyone remembers how Dolkot was going to start up their own version of Minimee service and all the heartache and headache it caused Denny and his team, then you would know about why so many people will defend Denny and his idea of creating Minimee to begin with. Denny has not broken any laws and his sculptors are creating these heads by hand from looking at pictures, call it what you like, but I don't see any other company doing what DIM is doing.

 

I have one "celebrity" minimee head and have ordered another. I ordered them because I think they have interesting faces, not because I plan to make a replica doll of the person. These are not particularly pretty faces so it is unlikely that any other doll company would make a doll head similar to these. They are quite a bargain, considering the cost involved in sculpting a head of my own and casting it. I agree that the minimee project is fanart inspired by an image, living or not, and is not immoral or illegal. It isn't even an exact copy of the person; just an 80% likeness. Producing a direct copy of another company's doll and representing it as an original product is a totally different issue.

 

DollKot “Minimee” service created such uproar because of the blatant rip-off provided by the original Head Sculptor from the Minimee project. DollKot had no part in it except that they were deceived.

But that is unrelated to this question.

If any company wanted a Minimee project to work they would have to work really hard to create a fan base and use their own original works for the project. They would be held with high regard to and I am sure they would too be popular.

It’s just so happen Denny and his team did it first.

 

I think there is a lot of difference between copying another companies original sculpt and copying the likeness of a famous person.

I think the only thing that DIM could be challenged on is using someones likeness without their express permission. In the case of actors, public figures, musicians, famous or infamous people. I think there is a law though covering Dim since the people above are in the public eye at their choice and the fact that the minimee's are done in small numbers.

If a person has themselves or family or a character cast, then they are really buying a service since they already have all the rights and are keeping them to that sculpt.

That said I have ordered a minimee and probably will again.

just my thoughts,

Chrys

 

I'd say if you're the only person to have a certain Minimee sculpt, regardless of who the sculpt is portraying, then that's pretty original. No one else has it, yet...so doesn't that make it unique?

Even if other people do eventually get that sculpt, the likelihood that they're going to make theirs look exactly like the first one, or dress it the same, or give it the same eyes and wig...is all pretty small.

Plus, I don't think the need for originality is as strong as the OP implies. If everyone was turned off by owning dolls that someone else already has...choices would be VERY few and far between!

 

Eh, some people don't give two hoots. If I like a doll I couldn't care less if it's an OOAK artist doll or a plain old stock Lishe or Dollzone. The reason I pay a lot for limited dolls is simply that there's fewer of them so the price is higher. It has nothing to do with my being in love with the whole idea of "limiteds". I also couldn't care less if Denny makes one or 571 of any of my minimees. So your whole contention is worthless as far as I am concerned, and given the size of this hobby, I'm sure it's also worthless to many other people.

Edited to add, I also couldn't care less about the whole "copying" angle either except that it makes artists upset, but I'll leave that point there because it's a hot button issue.

 

I'd also like to add that I think the title of this thread is an unnecessary slur on Minimee. I don't see anything hypocritical about what they do - that's a value judgment on the part of the person starting the thread. You might as well title a debate thread "Volks is a jerk" or something.

Denny works really hard and is a good guy to deal with, so I just wanted to register my protest to the fact that the title seems unnecessary and mean to me.

 

It needs to be a question at the very least. e.g. 'Are Minimees hypocritical?'

The way it's written now implies that it's a known and accepted fact. And really it's just one person's anger.

 

Read this, people! Brilliantly put.