Edited - Are the Minimee Sculpts Original?

WOW... yugami, that was great!!

i just want to add, though, that as an artist who gets commissions for a drawing or sculpture of a person/character they love i was never put under scrutiny for it. also, in japan there are many festivals celebrating resin model kits, and people are invited to bring kits that they have made of anime/manga characters and sell them. en masse. they don't need permission from the creators whatsoever. i know that's only japan, but it's an acceptable practice that perhaps more of asia embraces.
somehow i feel that Minimee is doing the same thing to an extent. someone says that they like a character, and minimee makes a limited version of something to that likeness. where's the harm other than pleasing a person who has love for a character? they aren't copying a character 100% correctly outfit, wig, eyes and all and passing it off that way, selling them in the thousands.
*i hope that didn't just sound really stupid or irrelevant*

 

Although the original poster is free to title her thread as she sees fit for the debate, there is reasonable concern that her title and even the original debate query are slanted towards a negativity in regards to the minimee sculpts rather than positing a neutral question regarding originality in the dollery and originality in regards to the minimee sculpts. For this "debate" to continue unlocked, please focus on the question of "originality" and how a mold created in the likeness of a "character" or "human being" may or may not be "original."

Thanks.

 

Minimees are some of the most unique heads for dolls in this doll hobby today. They have a different aesthetic, different proportion, and come in extremely limited runs of 10.

I honestly cannot fathom comparing them to the person they are meant to resemble, saying they then are not as unique as other dolls. So I guess..instead of a run of 10, if we are going to include the original person in the mix, its a run of 11? Still pretty unique in my mind.

 

hehe.
Sooooo....
Can I by the 11th run of The Gazette's Ruki minimee for the same price as the other ten?
Or would Ruki the person be the first run?

 

I have to agree with this. They are very different from any other heads out there that I've seen (and I've seen quite a few heads--I have too much time on my hands I guess).

Having a celeb or character made into a doll through the minimee service is like commissioning an artist to do a portrait or piece of fan art. Its not like he's creating celeb heads ahead of time and then selling them off "hey heads of celeb X for sale." I find it impressive that such a service exists and creates such impressive heads for such a fair price. If you carry the idea that sculpting a doll head off a person is unoriginal to its logical end, then all those famous artists who used models (has been standard practice) or painted portraits are also unoriginal. Think about that the next time you go to an art museum.

Originality is great. I love originality and creativity, but there are different ways people express that. Ordering a minimee head brings a person that much closer to having a doll of their favorite character or celeb, but its not a finished product on its own--still needs the right wig, clothes, eyes, faceup. There maybe even some minor modifications to bring it that much closer to a 100% likeness. And for some hobbyists, their creative outlet maybe less in customization and more in the realm or photography, writing, or sewing. I hate to see originality become some kind of weird competition between hobbyists...we don't need "I'm more original than thou" attitudes.

 

Like others, I don't see a direct connection between the bootleg/pirate issue and the fanart issue (since I would basically consider minimees and any similar projects to be comissioned fanart, the same as hiring someone to draw a pencil drawing of Legolas or make a plushie of a Bleach character or what have you, and in some cases it's more like having someone paint a portrait of yourself or a loved one).

One thing that I think is interesting to think about is...who's to say that other "normal" dolls aren't based off of people's faces? I'm sure doll sculptors sometimes base a sculpt on a person they know, a family member, someone they've seen around, or even a celebrity (model, musician, actor, etc). In fact, I know I've seen threads comparing existing dolls to celebrities already, and in some cases the similarities are pretty strong. So if someone makes a sculpt inspired by an actress or, heck, by their own child or whatever, but doesn't market it as being based on that real person, does that make the case any different?

 

Hey, this must have been posted at the exact same moment!

But all in all, if I had the option to have a head sculpt creted to look exactly how I wanted versus havig one modded, I think I (and a lot of people) would choose to have the new sculpt. Modding can create some amazing things, but you have to be very good at it to get the result you're after, and if it's a mod that requires additions instead of just subtractions (i.e. adding onto a jawline with putty as opposed to sanding away, or making the eyes smaller with putty as opposed to cutting away a sleeping doll's lids) there are issues with matching the putty to the resin in texture and colour, you might have to paint the skintone over the modifications, etc. While it's certainly possible, I do understand the appeal of having a fresh one-piece all resin head to work with.

 

Kiskalla, I'm still interested as to why you believe VinylFaerie's analogy is oversimplifying. If you would.

 

kiskalla: I think that that is just your perception of what the hobby should be. That doesn't mean that other people need to follow the "rules" to be in it. Minimee is one of the most awesome ideas I have come across in this hobby. The idea of create anybody you want (friend, artist, etc) doesn't make the concept less unique or less artistic. Now, if Minimee were created from another head of another company then there would be a visible copying problem. This is not the case. BTW, it is important to mention that there are a lot of Barbie repainters and customizers (including me ) that love to do fantasy characters for sale. That doesn't make the repaint or customization less original or professional. My two cents

 

I just wanted to comment here on the sheer artistic skills of the artists Denny has on the Minimee project. I've handled three of them in person now, and I've also been thoroughly impressed with all the pictures of heads posted by owners. Each one is distinctly its own character. I'm sure a lot of artists here are very aware of how good you have to be just to get into the same ballpark as what people recognize as a person. It's very hard careful measurement and visual "editing" work to make it look like a particular person. Simply copying a profile doesn't pick up the information that certain celebrities have quirks in their proportions, such as asymmetrical faces.
I do think Denny's folks could be doing a lot of other work, in bigger and fancier venues, and getting paid on a different scale completely, if they were interested in whacking together great crude things out of bronze or casting fountains out of marble dust or something. I feel quite lucky that they're making really interesting heads for collectors who will carry it forward by doing really interesting costume and faceup interpretations in a size that we can collect without buying a half acre of lawn to put it in.
This is really quite a rare opportunity to see really great high-level artwork at an affordable level, particularly in the group orders. And yes, at this number of heads, it's all going to stay within the hobby. I'm seeing some resales and I'm sure they're going to get rethought into new and different characters, even if they're from different parts of the same famous actor's career.

That said, I am quite aware of the alarm in the fan art, music, and writing communities over big corporations attacking them with cease-and-desist orders on material that couldn't possibly have reached that many viewers online. There's folks actively working on the issues of copyright infringement vs. remix and tribute questions from different angles, if you do searches on these topics on various forums. Creative Commons is one of those places where visual artists, musicians, and writers can be legally explicit about their wishes, but that might be more problematic for a celebrity registering their likeness with some varying degree of legal use. Most fans are very concerned that the original creator should get credit and get paid for their effort, without stifling the creativity of those who collage from earlier works.

 

If you don't prefer my wording, refer to arrowchild's post, as she was more eloquent.

 

pretty sure it is originality in the doll world. yeup. no, its not origniality in the world and alot of the time not their creation - but as far as DOLLS go its original. when angelina jolie starts sculpting dolls of herself, then i guess theres no need for minmees.

a doll is a differant item to a person or a drawing. usually people only have issues when its to do with money. 'you cant sell dolls of me and make money!' i bet a lot less would care if it was for free. when the fact is, it wasnt their idea and theyd probably never do it, so its not like its profit that 'should belong to them' sure, it looks sort of like their face but at the end of the day, its not sold as that

DiM dont sell them as a character - they are just made to the likeness. without the hair or eyes etc its just any other person.

 

And I think that you, in turn, are oversimplifying her argument. Your original post made it sound like you were completely against Minimees because they're such direct copies of people that it's oh-so-terrible. VinylFaerie was simply pointing out that the only way to truly copy people is to clone them. Dolls do not and cannot fall under that category.

She was meeting hyperbole with hyperbole, and quite well too, which is why I did want to know more about your initial, seemingly knee-jerky, response.

 

That's because cloning technology is illegal.
But yeah I agree with you on the part that when both the original post was up and the comment was made it really did fit.

 

For humans, right now, it is. But they have cloned sheep and a couple cats now, I think...we're on our way. I fully expect to see it in this lifetime. But I'm gonna stop shopping at Off Topic now O_O

 

Are you talking about right of publicity in the U.S.? Because 100% likeness is definitely not necessary for RoP.

Oh and I'm not saying that just because this is the case, Minimee would be in violation if it was made here. Right of publicity is complicated and differs from state to state. Plus there is always a 1st Amendment artistic expression defense. That defense may or may not work in this case. One never knows with the courts...

But considering the company is in Korea anyway, we should probably be looking at what the law is there. Could be very different for all we know.

 

So maybe it isn't the most original thing to have a doll made of an anime, manga, book, etc. character. You didn't create the character. But if you love that character and you want to own a physical representation of it, how is that negative? There are so many anime, book, movie, game, etc. character products out there. Dolls, posters, clothing, bric-a-brac. Are you saying that people shouldn't buy these things and EVERYONE should make up their own original characters instead? That is pretty absurd, imo.

That's like saying, "listening to music created by other musicians is SO unoriginal. Everyone should create their OWN music to listen to." Sure, some people have those capabilities. Some people can sculpt their own dolls, or draw their own original characters, and write their own stories to go with them. But the truth is, not everyone has or wants those talents.

When I saw BJDs for the first time I wasn't upset that I didn't have the skills to make one, I was happy that companies were producing them for me to buy, regardless of how many other people already owned certain sculpts. I knew that I could make my doll original in my own way, and it's the same with Minimees.