Elitism - How much is perceived?

I usually got to know about this extreme kind of elitism through horrible stories on DoA, usually when it comes to meet-up stories etc.
I must admit though that it's quite clear that EVERY hobby that basically comes down to money, creativity etc. has it's own snobs.
There are always people who think that just because they have money they are also the best and deserve to be praised.

I actually see more people complaining about or calling others elitsts than real-life elitists.
Part of it might be because these elitists usually don't interact that much with other, non-worthy (LOL) people?

 

@teleri: Having an opinion or preference is not being an elitist. What almaxaquotal said is that she only wants to look at pictures that inspire her and for her to be inspired they have to be aesthetically pleasing (to her). That's not being elitist, that's having a preference.

As long as she stays respectful to those people who have dolls she doesn't like and doesn't scream in their faces that they don't deserve to be in this hobby, I think me and her might get along just fine.

I don't. When I haven't personally witnessed something, I'm taking stories about elitism with a big grain of salt. It's a heated topic and even a bjd-confession could be written with those strong feelings in mind. For instance, if I wanted to ridicule the term 'elitism' I could very well have written the confession Ara* quoted myself, because it's almost too grotesque to be real and every single cliché about elitism is present in that post.

Most stories that circle around are told by someone who's cousin's second uncle's best friend has been personally assaulted by one of those meanies. In over six years time, I have never heard a story from someone telling it first-hand. So, as far as I'm concerned, 'elitism' is mostly a myth. A myth kept alive by people who are easily hurt, or insecure, or read too much into things. I'm not letting it ruin the fun I have in this hobby.

 

I think I've mentioned in some thread about elitism that in 5 years I've encountered only 2 persons that I could brand an elitist. People who would loudly voice their opinion that if you didn't have X or did have Y you were wrong.
2 people in 5 years and in a community larger than 10,000 hobbists. That's less than 0.02% percent. Yes, elitists exist, but they are more a rare creature you may or may not encounter than some common pest jumping at you from every courner.

One of those elitists I only encountered online, which is not that strange since so much of the hobby takes place online due to the global scale. It pretty simple when you encounter someone you don't like online: close the chat window, put them on ignore and your problem is solved. DoA has a really useful ignore option that makes it look like the people you don't want to see aren't even there.
Use it, if you don't like to read a certain person's posts.

Just for the record: "I think dolls of brand X are ugly. I don't understand why people buy them." is not elitism. "How dare you talk about dolls of brand X to me? Those dolls shouldn't even exist and their owners should not be allowed in my hobby." is more like elitism.

 

Wow.
That confession... =/
I really do hope someone was just really bored and decide to make it.
People who sit around laughing at other people dolls is just so sad. I don't mean to bash but how much life can they have if they had the time to sit around and troll other people dolls like that.

"It bring me joy" to bring other people down... to my level.
You don't need to be a psychologist to see this as an "I'm insecure" confession.

 

I have dealt with one elitist so far in this hobby, and in five years (the last four on DOA), I think that says a lot about us doll folks. This elitist was also a special kind; she was a wig elitist. She didn't care if you had a Bobobie or a Volks, so long as your wig wasn't fur she was okay with you. Yeah, she's in a class all her own.

I believe one of the reasons there aren't as many BJD elitists is because we as a majority are a community of artists. We put a lot of time, effort and love into these dolls, and I think a lot of people understand and see that. I'm sure we all at some point have done something artistic and creative with our dolls; whether we set them up for a photo shoot, sewn them an outfit, made a prop or even went as far as to do face-ups and modifications. These dolls are a great outlet for unleashing our creative side, and I think that is appreciated by most people here.

Those that don't appreciate the creativity and artistry in other folks' dolls, just don't get it. They probably see these dolls as nothing more than expensive collectors items that can be used to impress others, and beef up their self-esteem; which they are most likely lacking, unfortunately.

 

I've heard about elitism from a friend before I joined this BJD community. Sure, the stories were pretty nasty, blood boiling and just straight up rude. But lately, I've been thinking about just how much elitist are out there in the actual community and in the meet ups? And why people automatically brand someone an elitist?

I haven't been able to go to dolls meets around my area, simply because of this reason.

Not that there are any hardcore elitist like the ones in the stories, there are few volks owners (who by the way, not only have expensive dolls, but the most gorgeous dolls ever from face-up to outifts, all high quality stuff) and I can't help but feel that they have every right to be proud and be called elite. Because to me, the term elite means to be the best, the perfection and top of high social grounds-- for having the best? Even though the term is usually viewed negatively, isn't it human nature to thrive and achieve elitism in some sort of form?

During my visits in the meet, it was rather hard for me to "fit" in and still is, to get along with other BJD owners. Most of these owners are not considered what the conventional meaning of 'elitist' means, but the complete opposite but have the similar mentality of an 'elitist' would have in this hobby. Almost all volks owners at my local meets sit at the corners, don't talk much and just sit there, waiting for someone to come by and talk to them- or sometimes just bring their own friends. Meanwhile, these other owners who get new dolls every other month through layaway, not having any decent face up and clothes made out of sock, have this weird mentality to push away these 'elitist' who have not said a word to them, yet push away and talk badly about them in their own groups without giving a chance to get to know the person. What's the point of a doll meet, when you are not meeting others outside you're comfort zone?

And I haven't been able to go to these meets, because I find myself sitting near the volks owners because apparently I have been branded as an elitist of some sort in their eyes. Which I don't understand. I haven't said anything to offend them, didn't talk down about their dolls or the brands, and I absolutely don't go around saying I prefer this X company or Y company over Z companu-- that's an opinion people usually keep to themselves. I find myself usually sit with other doll owners who have fairly good dolls that are not as expensive as Volks, but fairly expensive or cheaper, but have pretty amazing face ups and outfits that the owner took lots of time and money to get. But we are also a small fraction of the whole meet, and yes, we are also pushed away like the volks owners by these other owners.

So, my question is, what should the people in between be called, and people who buys dolls every other month without taking care of the doll be called?

I'm sorry if my post seems or sounds like something an elitist might "sound" like, but, this has been a question that's been bugging me for a very long time.

 

slash_spread, your post intrigues me. I haven't ever been to a doll-meet because I am afraid to to be lonely there, or to not "fit in" - but this has nothing to do with elitism, rather with my own personality. To be precise: I am afraid to not fit in because od myself, not because of the dolls/doll clothing/face-ups I own. So what you write does sound familiar - but at the same time, your opinion is very different to mine! This is why I want to answer.

You consider Volks the best. This is okay and it is your right to like what you like. But does having a Volks doll imply being on the top of high social grounds? Even belonging to an "elite"?

On one hand, this hobby is still a rather exotic one, and far from your typical "fashionable high society hobby".

And on the other hand, the only ones who are able to buy any BJD dolls (be it Volks or Bobobie) are people who are already priviledged - for example with regular income (or parents with such) and an internet connection.

So what, exactly, is more "elite" about Volks owners than about Bobobie owners?

The way you describe it, there are only friendly Volks owners and evil... errrr... what should we call them? People who like having many dolls? People like to make their own clothing? Who paint their own face-ups and are still practicing? Why, aren't there people who do all these things AND own one or two Volks dolls?

Why is it as important where one sits? Why is identifying with a "certain kind of owner" as important? Do we really need groups and groups inside our already scarcely populated hobby?

You say "you find yourself sitting near X" - don't YOU choose where you sit? You are not a victim. You are not passive. If you want to talk to the others, go and do it. Talk to the Volks owners, the "fairly expensive but cheaper" owners, the "layaway with sock dress" owners. If you don't, then maybe you are just a shy or introvert person - which doesn't have to do with elitism or being branded as elitist . Or maybe, it is yourself who brands yourself. And this "we vs. them" is another step to "holier than you", hostility, and "elitism". (<= please don't be offended, I am not saying you are an elitist or anything, I just want to point out that the mechanism works both ways)

Why do we need to call anybody anything at all? Why is it wrong to be "in-between" (in between what? Elitist and not-elitist? Volks and Bobobie? Good and evil)? Why is it wrong to buy dolls every other month? How is "taking care of the doll" defined?

 

Silk and dollblue,

 

I can say this is my experience as well. While not new to BJDs I am new to DoA and the reaction I got from some of my collector friends when I told them I'd joined DoA was something along the lines of "Why? They are such snobs!" My answer was because I wanted to learn more about the many different types of BJDs which they understood but they told me to be careful because DoA was mean and elitist.

Uhm, no it isn't. My experience has been warm and welcoming. I am learning new things every day. Seeing new dolls nearly every day and seeing some true works of art. I see a lot of personal joy and enthusiasm that is shared freely.

I collect dolls, all kinds of dolls and there are those in all branches of this hobby that are 'elitist'. I've seen it and ignored it. That whole idea of you have to own this brand of doll or that type of doll to be one of the 'in' crowd is really rare and for that I am thankful.

 

In the only two BJD meet-ups I ever went to, I never encountered any elitism whatsoever. My first meet was a lovely small affair in Aberystwyth - just myself and one other collector - and we sat and chatted away and had a nice afternoon. My second meet was a lot larger, I joined in with the very welcoming Pygmalion Society in London, many of them are members here. That meet-up was different because there were a lot more attendees, but a few of them knew I was coming all the way from Wales and they were very welcoming and I met some great people. There was a wide range of dolls at the meet, but the less-expensive standard dolls were sat next to the uber-expensive limiteds and no one batted an eye. PukiPukis, Lati Yellows and Dream High Studio tinies all tumbled together - everyone was more interested in the cuteness and getting some great pictures than whether a less expensive doll was in the same shot as a more expensive doll.

There was a little Dollfie Dream enclave at the meet I went to, but this was mainly because a few of us who had only met online were getting together with our Dollfie Dreams for the first time. Resin dolls weren't excluded, it was just fun to see so many DDs together at one time (I think the number of DDs has increased now too!)

I suppose if I went to more meets and more regularly I might see a little elitism here and there...but I doubt it. The girl I met in Aber was sweet and more than happy to have all our dolls sat together on the table, and the people I met at the Pygmalion Society meet were great and didn't care what doll you had or even if you had a doll at all as long as you were respectful of others' property and respected that the meet was being held in a public venue. Basic manners was the key thing

I think a lot of what people call 'elitism' is actually hurt feelings and projecting your own fears on to a situation. I was quite nervous walking into the large meet in London, but everyone put me at ease. Had I stayed shy and quiet in a corner just playing with my own doll, I'd have come across as unapproachable and uninterested in the meet. Sometimes you really have to push yourself forward even if you are shy - as I am! Whenever I feel shy at something I want to take part in or I'm interested in, I know I have to start pretending to be more of an extrovert than I naturally am. It's like putting on a smile - before you know it, the smile will be genuine and you will start to feel more confident and comfortable.

 

Brief points:

1. I don't think it's "elitism" if someone just doesn't like you much. There is no rule that everyone has to be your friend. If they don't like you on the sole basis of you owning a doll they think is inferior that's elitism, but I think a lot of times it's just that the person does not get along with you individually, and unfortunately that personality clash gets branded as "elitism" for the sake of someone's ego (after all, no one could dislike ME, I'm fantastic! It must be because they're a jerk who looks down on my doll!).

2. Being shy isn't elitism either. I'm not outgoing. I'm not outgoing at meets. If you show up I am not going to run up and talk to you if I don't know you already. If you want to come talk to me that's fine. That doesn't make me elitist. There is also no rule that says other people have to do the work to make friends with you. If you want to make new friends, approach some people. I am not actively looking to make new friends at meets, so I am not approaching people, but it doesn't mean I hate you. I assume if someone is sitting in the corner, they're just a bit shy.

 

Chibaraki, Dollblue and Silk have all made very valid points.

To add (although I'm sure this has been said before):
I think the perception of 'elitism' in this hobby is just that - Perceived. I disbelieve that the entire hobby is suddenly split into opposing factions that spend their free time mocking the other. It appears to me that people are letting their own insecurities misinterpret the behaviors of those around them.

That group of people at the doll meet isn't talking to me = They must be talking badly about me and my doll.
That person didn't *squee* over my BBB with it's first-attempt face up like they did over the company painted Volks = They must be brand elitists!

It reminds me of a Failbook post on Memebase where a lady posted "Fat Tire!" on her Facebook. (A fairly common brand of beer that she was drinking at the time.) The woman was merely stating her appreciation for her favorite beer and someone on her feed jumped to the conclusion that the OP was passive-aggressively calling her a 'fatty' behind her back and trying to start drama.
Was she being called a fatty? No, but the friend was obviously feeling insecure and filtered all her interactions through this insecurity creating issues that didn't actually exist.

I firmly believe that the majority of these supposed interactions with these hyper-critical 'elitists' are nothing more than people playing situations over and over in their heads until they've convinced themselves that they're being persecuted in some way.

People are giving you dirty looks\leaving you out at meets? Have you considered that maybe they are just having an off day? Maybe you're sitting in front of bad movie poster or near something that creeps them out? Hell, Maybe someone just farted and you were unlucky enough to catch their eye while they were trying to figure out 'who dealt it'! ...Or maybe the person dishing out dirty looks is only doing so because they see themselves as being judged as well?

I'm not saying that jerks don't happen. There are jerks out there. I just don't think there are as many of them as people claim.

Edit to add because this is making me think:
I may also have to do with the fact that some people may have gotten used to loved ones (parents, significant others, etc) constantly telling them that their dolls are amazing and beautiful. (not to say that they aren't) So when these people find themselves in unfamiliar territory, surrounded by unfamiliar faces that don't immediately coo and squee over the dolls they love so much, they think they are being judged.

There is a large difference between being openly mocked or bullied and being treated with indifference.

 

First of all i want to say, the term 'Elitist/Elitism' is downright dumb. I don't care how expensive your doll is, because I have seen bad/unappealing Volks/Soom and decent looking BBB/RS. I own Korean and Chinese dolls, but i treat them all equally, giving them pretty faceups and working hard and sewing clothes for them because i cannot afford the beautiful clothing premade. I don't believe myself to be an elitist but i would consider myself a 'perfectionist'. I am a student, and with an expensive hobby like this, i believe it is very important to take care of them, and dress them in their finest. These may just be simple dolls/toys to others, but in the eyes of the other team, we treat them like antiques.
Following what splash_spread is saying, i don't find myself going to dollmeets anymore either. The first time i went to a dollmeet here in the US was last year. I went alone, hoping to find some friends or have a little chit chat, considering it IS a dollmeet. We meet up, make friends and hold an easy atmosphere. When i got there, i realize everyone is already in their own little groups. It felt awkward, but still, i went around, trying to spark a conversation. I am not saying my dolls are hella beautiful or anything expensive. Nor am i saying their dolls are ugly or cheap (most owns luts/iplehouses/sooms). But the way they style their dolls is just not my tastes in general. Yet, it wasn't like i went up to their face and told them off. The moment they saw me, they give me this nasty look, and it made me so uncomfortable. I walks around the tables, taking photos of everyone's dolls, complimenting them, but all they could was just nod their heads, ignoring me. So i noticed there was a very empty table in the back, and it was a Volk owner and her little sister. It upsets me how she was sitting alone, so i sat with her. Her doll is expensive, wearing expensive clothing, and have a very beautiful faceup. My doll was from a Chinese company, decent clothing and a decent faceup. So, i just started to talk to her, chatting about dolls, or whatever. This is breaking 'elite' stereotype right here, with Volks owners bashing on cheap Chinese companies. I guess it made me look even worse to the other people, because i got twice the nasty looks in the next doll meet.
But you know what? It isn't my fault or anything. They pushed me away first. They pushed the 'elitist' out first, and of course, the outcasts are going to be friends, improving each time. And guess what? It may make us look bad, but we know it. Eventually to a point where i don't bother going to the dollmeets anymore, and just hang out on our own time.

 

I started going to NYC meets. In the very beginning they were okay. A lot of elitist, but few cliques. Heh, funny, I'm the one who found the atrium at trump tower and started the meets there. But now, The elitism isn't so bad, but the groups are insane. I never fit into any of the groups, still don't, and stopped going. I went to meets to talk, and be around people, but always felt left out. But now, I'm living in the south, and have made it to 2 meets here. I have loved every one. There is a group yes, but they make sure to include everyone. Even new, I felt welcome, and still do.
So I will say now, Elitism isn't so much a problem anymore as is just plain mean people and their cliques

 

I agree with this. If you are shy, it is okay, i understand. But if you are just giving us dirty looks, it's like, what? I am shy when i first meet people, but eventually, when i feel welcomed enough, we talk and get to know each other. Differences set aside.

 

The thing is "dirty looks" is a perception. If you assume everyone hates you, then your reality is that everyone hates you. It doesn't matter how they feel. Any gesture they make will be interpreted as being out of hate or spite.

If you assume someone thinks they are better than you, then you'll look for snobbery in every word, action and deed.

I think a lot of problems new comers have at meetups have more to do with general lack of social skills in a nerdy hobby rather than actual snobbery and bitchiness.

 

Considering that the volks owners did have very beautiful dolls on display, of course and naturally I will think that those dolls are beautiful. I didn't say the others besides Volks were hideous or less beautiful. I've seen many dolls in the meet, the by far, the volks were the ones with nicely crafted face up and clothes and often change clothes instead of having same outfit over and over each meet. I don't ever imply that Volks dolls are the only dolls being on the top, because I have seen and be-friend many BJD owners who have "cheaper" dolls compared to Volks and made them into beautiful dolls. I have also seen terribly crafted volks, this doesn't mean I am bias only towards Volks. Since I don't own a volks.

It's interesting how you would point out the oh-so-controversial topic of Volks and Bobobie owners. I haven't compared the Volks to any other companies which is quiet hilarious, because you must be assuming that I am talking about Bobobie owners.

Also, this was not my intention of saying that all volks owners are nice and friendly.
Also, I would like to point out that I hand-do my own doll's face up, hand make my own doll's clothes for each meet-- my only concern was that, if there is such a bias view towards elitist and the closely associated volks owners, why aren't there a term for non-volks owners who act equally the same as an elitist except they just don't have "good" dolls as eyes would perceive. I'm not trying to point fingers or cause war over this, it's just that it bothers me a bit.

Well, think of it this way. The volks owners do not sit with each other, they are scattered around the whole meet area sitting by themselves. Which means, most of us "in between" people are cast aside to sit on the liners with the volks owners because in a sense we are sort of segregated by the kind of dolls we own. Few Soom owners, few spiritdoll owners, few Iplehouse and etc sit mostly and closely on the edges. It's not that we choose to sit there, it just so happens that we have no choice because we cannot break into the center circle of certain doll owners. I tried talking to almost everyone, but it's funny how the volks and other nicer doll owners are more open to talk to you than the ones who put up this barrier and treat you like the enemy.

It also makes me a bit annoyed, especially at the fact that:

1. A newcomer who just happened to own a Volks with nicely dressed, expensive face-up she gotten on Y!J, who tried to make friends with everyone and reach out to all the other dolls owners. Why is it that she was sort of ignored, frown upon and etc? She didn't come up as an elitist and didn't asked to be branded as one. Soon after, she never shows up to the meet because that must have been a horrible experience for her.

2. One doll owner I've talked to, who owned iplehouses and other more expensive dolls started to ignore me because this person have mistaken my switch doll for an Volks and openly ignored me and said things to other BJD owners about how volks owners were elitist. I honestly cannot understand that.

There is completely nothing wrong with buying a new doll one after another is you can afford it. But my only pet peeve about this would be that, it's a bit sad that you bring these dolls to the meet and yet they wear the same clothes as always, where you could've used the funding to get your dolls a nicer and affordable outfits on the marketplace or whatnot, instead of adding unto your collection-- to me, it seems more of a dolly abuse. And I know how people feel about that, so I won't linger too much on it.

Anyways, I think people are getting confused by my post.
I'm going to be completely honest here as well.
I don't care what doll sculpt, brand or how much you've paid for your doll. My only thing is that, if elitist is going to be perceived as a bad thing, then what about the enforcerers who are dead on about excluding these elitists who might not have had the intention of being one and called as one?

 

I just have to ask. And what if the outfit I already have is nice? Or is perfect for their characters? Why should I buy my doll a second one just because you (general) don't want to keep seeing it in the same one meet after meet after meet? If I'm happy with the way my doll looks that's all that matters.