Elitism - How much is perceived?

True. I suspect people have in the past thought I was giving them "dirty looks" because, for better or worse, I have a pretty serious face. My neutral expression is a bit frowny, so if I'm not really paying attention, sometimes people think I'm grouchy. Alas.

I agree that what is important is if you're happy with your doll. I guess the exception is if you're complaining that people don't come to look at your doll. Like, if your doll looks exactly the same as it did at the last five meets I saw it at, I probably won't spend much time staring at it since I already know what it looks like! But as long as you're not being all "That elitist looks at everyone else's dolls more than mine!" I don't care if you keep your doll in the same outfit for the next hundred years and neither should anyone else.

 

To add to this what if the doll is a character and has a 'default' outfit? Cartoon characters don't change their clothes everyday and I assume some people with dolls based on OC might not change their clothes everyday either.

 

I have that same problem. Mostly born of an old defense mechanism when I didn't want people to bother me. Now I have to actively look not so stand-offish.

And agreed. I just don't particularly care for the notion that I'm being neglectful just because I happen to really like the all black outfit my doll has been sitting in for the last 6 months, *mumbles*and I haven't checked to make sure it isn't staining him. *shifty eyes**snickers* No, I've checked.

 

slash_spread, I'm sorry but I really can't wrap my head around your logic in your second to last paragraph. It's dolly 'abuse' now because I don't care to have more than one outfit for my dolls? Er...yeah, no real way to combat that except with a less than eloquent, 'Buh' Are you serious?

 

I'm just voicing my own opinions, as anyone on here. I don't see why "I" should be of anyone's concern about how they feel about their own dolls? You have your views and I have mine. Again, I said on my own accord that its my pet peeve, and not something I am forcing on anyone to view in my own personal opinion. Also, I didn't generally meant by seeing the same doll over and over again, I meant the same doll in the same outfit that hasn't changed for the last half a year, says a lot, doesn't it?

 

...wait the what?

So it's "dolly abuse" to only have one outfit for a doll? Are you serious? Putting aside the whole thing where you can't really abuse an inanimate object, this is...what is this I can't even. Some people don't put their priorities on huge wardrobes for their dolls. My own personal preference with regards to my collection is lavish attention on the few I own, but that's me. Other people are not me, and their priorities differ, and it's not any kind of 'dolly abuse' to have different priorities.

And no, it isn't 'saying a lot' to leave a doll in the same outfit for months on end. In fact, it says absolutely nothing whatsoever. Maybe it's the perfect outfit for the character. Maybe it's a fan doll and that happens to be its default outfit. Maybe I just like the outfit. Maybe I just don't care. My dolls have been in the same outfits for the past six months, and I don't really think that constitutes 'abuse'. That constitutes 'I like those outfits'.

More on topic: I think accusations of elitism rise when people can't handle differences of opinion or matters of play. If someone doesn't play the way you like to play and says so, then they must be an elitist. This is a really really big sandbox. There's room for EVERYONE to play the way they like, and there are remarkably few people who will actually go stomping up to your sand castle and claim that it's a substandard castle and how dare you even build there. I've encountered maybe one true 'elitist', in the manner we like to use the word, and I've been doing this for five years. We all have preferences, but that's human nature. We're all going to have different preferences, and having different preferences does not an elitist make.

Also, since I didn't say it earlier when I was first thinking it: chibaraki, dollblue, Silk -- you all raise very good points and word them better than I ever could.

 

If you think it is hilarious, I am glad to make you laugh a bit But keep in mind that I mentioned Bobobie ON PURPOSE, not by some accident, because it is THE typical example brought up in such conversations, and not because of MY opinion of them - if you would so prefer, you can insert AoD, Dollzone, 5S, etc etc etc instead. Let's look closer at that question which you didn't answer and didn't look at as a whole, instead taking it apart and analyzing my choice of particular words. Let's put it back into context!

"And on the other hand, the only ones who are able to buy any BJD dolls (be it Volks or Bobobie) are people who are already priviledged - for example with regular income (or parents with such) and an internet connection.

So what, exactly, is more "elite" about Volks owners than about Bobobie owners?"

The sense of this question is: "How can we say expensive luxury good number 1 is less elite than expensive luxury good number 2 when they are both only available to those who already enjoy a huge priviledge in our world, a priviledge that they usually didn't earn (but were given by birth at a certain time, in a certain place), and that is not all that available to many other people in the world?"

See, it is actually not about a certain brand at all.

"Dolly abuse" is not a term that can be applied here, in my opinion. LOL.

Again, why would you at all want to call anybody anything?

 

Again, do I need to remind everyone that it's my pet peeve on my own accord. I'm not exactly here to tell everyone they should think the same as I do, so please stop getting offended by it, because I'm sure everyone has a pet peeve of one or two. And I'm sure anyone is entitled to voice their own opinions. So, why can't I? I'm not making any physical or personal attacks on someone, it's just my own opinion and how I view what an doll abuse might be. You may have an different take on that, but I'm not going to attack you for thinking differently than I do.

 

Wow, I'm sorry, but that's so pathetic. Tez, I see you're spluttering trying to find the right words to describe someone who tries to dictate someone else's priorities with their own toys-- but you've already articulated it better than I could. I got as far as "Jesus creeping hell, that's so pathetic" but then I blew a fuse.

 

It's just more of a curiosity, because if there is an term like elitism then there should be other terms as well. Because I honestly feel that term is rather a bit radical and are usually used negatively and generally by majority of doll owners. If there is a need to end all branding of people, you might as well as start with not using the term like "elitist".

 

Um, what exactly DOES it say to you? Half my dolls don't even have face-ups (the horror!) including my very first doll which I bought back in 2007. Maybe that says to you I'm dirty, rotten dolly abuser...or maybe it means I'm fine with seeing nekkid-faced dollies as I search around for just the right face-up artist while preferring to spend my extra spending money on other things for awhile (like, I don't know...me? Why should my dolls be the only ones who get to sit around in $200 outfits?).

 

Of course, we are all entitled to our opinions. And, in my opinion, it says absolutely nothing to me if I see a doll in the same outfit for the last half a year. Heck, it says absolutely nothing to me if I see a doll in the same outfit for the last 10 years! There are multitudes of reasons why someone may not change the doll's outfit, it would be silly to even start listing them all. There are a few dolls in my collection that I like keeping in their original full-set outfits; one particular doll has been in her original outfit for over 6 months. What does that say about me? I'm truly curious.

 

Thank you very much for personally attacking for my own opinions. I thought this was an open debate and opinion. But I guess not. ^__^;
How many times do I have to highlight the words "Personal pet peeve"?
I am aware of everyone else has different preference, and I'm not trying to force you to change that. If you want to go and continue to do what you want to do with your dolls, so be it. Again, it's my personal thought and honest view so what should it matter to any of you if you are so aware of the fact that you don't care what others say?

 

I think a lot of this is just based on false assumptions. Those who like only Volks (used as random example company) may look at other companies dolls and assume people buy them as Volks substitutes, someone may see my doll in the same outfit for a year and assume I'm too poor to buy more clothes, or someone may see a very yellowed doll and assume that the owner is neglectful.

Assuming ANYTHING about people you don't know is usually going to bite you in the rear. People have different views, religions, beliefs, priorities, and life experiences. Someone out there will keep their doll wrapped in bubble-wrap in a dark room and another may fracture theirs with a hammer to glue it back together because they think it looks cool. No one's wrong, it's theirs to do with as they wish.

Before you get offended by an instance of "dolly abuse" or "elitism" though, stop and ask yourself: Does this really affect my life in any way at all? If the answer is "No", then there you go. Just tune them out and be happy with your dolly.

 

slash_spread, the way that you phrased your 'personal pet peeve' (yes, we all have those, I am sure, including me!) with "says a lot, doesn't it?" being the concluding statement implies a judgement rather than just an opinion, which is why there's such a heated reaction from others. Perhaps that is not what you intended to convey, but to me that post sounds judgmental towards people who choose to play with their toys differently than you.

 

You're right, I probably didn't phrase the statement correctly. And I was also heated with the topic as well, when you have five other people attacking on one statement you've made and saying stuff like, how pathetic or disgusting, when this is a open debate.

All I was trying to point out was that, if there is an term like elitism, there should be other terms to call other personalities majority of doll owners do possess as well to even it out instead of antagonizing one category. But since everyone is more lineal towards the idea of "there shouldn't be any branding of anyone", then shouldn't we start with not using the terms like elitism?

 

Exactly.

slash_spread -- I truly don't mean to go on the attack, but I can't stand judgmental statements of any kind. You may want to take a look at your wording throughout your posts; you were striking me as judgmental from the start, when you were referring to 'people who buy a doll every other month on layaway, not as nice faceups, clothes made of socks' in a really belittling manner, and referring to other dolls as 'better' or 'best' which compounded the issue. This might not have been your intention, but it's sure how I read it, and given the vehemence of other people's reactions I'm going to guess I wasn't the only one. How I read it was you were talking about having issues fitting in, but then turning around and slamming those other owners' choices in how they participated in the hobby. It didn't sound good at all. The 'says a lot, doesn't it' was sort of the cherry on the sundae. I'm sure this wasn't how you intended to come across, but that was how I interpreted it.

Yes, it is an open debate -- which means that everyone's free to respond however they choose to whatever they choose, regardless of how those responses end up turning out.

 

With that, I'm sure we can resume back to the actual debate and to my actual question that everyone seems to be completely unaware of. Or, possibly ignoring.

So I will post again.

if there is an term like elitism, there should be other terms to call other personalities majority of doll owners do possess as well to even it out instead of antagonizing one category. But since everyone is more lineal towards the idea of "there shouldn't be any branding of anyone", then shouldn't we start with not using the terms like elitism?

 

Back to the topic this thread was made for, i honestly don't believe terms should be made for a hobby like this. This is an artistic hobby, how can one be an 'elitist' when it's just opinionmatic? I don't think these 'elitist' even know when they are being called such.
I do wonder the same with splash_spread question. What is the ones 'in between' called?
I believe everyone can be creative or not with this hobby. It isn't limited to a single group. But there are always going to be a general dislike to a certain style or reception of a doll. I may be uptight with my dolls, but only because i want them to look presentable, fashionable and the best i can give them. What does that say about me?
I realize it is difficult to set aside opinions here, because it seems everyone enjoys being on the 'right' side of a debate. But there isn't a right or a wrong side. Everyone's opinions matters, and at the end of the day, we are still going to stand for what we believe in.
Oh also, if you think 'elitism' here is tough? Try Asia.

 

Why combat an unfair stereotype with more labels/terms/stereotypes? Instead of categorizing and labeling fellow collectors (or, anyone, really), why not try and dispel erroneous assumptions?

It's human nature to categorize, organize and group information - it's how our brain learns and retains new ideas. However, applying this type of labeling to people oftentimes leads to false judgments, assumptions and stereotypes, which results in misunderstandings, hurt feelings and arguments. What is the benefit of creating 100 more categories to pigeonhole BJD collectors?

In all my years in the hobby, I've never experienced elitism, although, I am sure that it exists in this hobby, just like it exists in other aspects of life. However, I also firmly believe that the vast amount of reported elitism is either perceived or fabled (in other words, not directly experienced but, rather, heard from best friend's uncle's second cousin's sister-in-law) and taken to be factual. As it has been pointed out numerous times throughout the thread, having strong opinions and preferences does not an elitist make.