Elitism - How much is perceived?

It says what, exactly? My only boy doll has been sat on my bookshelf in the same clothes for months. He has two sets of clothes and I like this one on him best. I could cross-dress him I suppose, for more variety, but considering the only person who needs to be entertained by my dolls is myself and I like him the way he is, I'm not going to be changing his clothes any time soon.

I find it amusing that the height of dolly neglect is now leaving them in the same clothes for months. slash_spread, everyone is entitled to their own opinion...but sometimes the opinion is not relevant to the conversation. It is even a little elitist to look down on others for only having one outfit for their doll

One of the most interesting things about this hobby is how each collector has a different idea on how to create the perfect collection for them. For some people this means having a lot of dolls with one outfit each, for others this means having one or a couple of dolls and spoiling them with a lot of outfits. Everyone's approach is different - personally I don't consider my dolls 'finished' unless they have at least one pair of shoes to their name, but I don't believe that people with barefoot dolls are neglectful.

QFE. I agree with you completely.

I can't be the only one who's had enough of all the labels. It seems that the only people happy to casually use the 'elitist' label are people who are using it inaccurately.

 

I already asked myself why suddenly there were so many new posts here.

I must admit that the whole "doll always in the same clothes" thing is also a tiny pet peeve from me, but only when the person is complaining all the time that she lacks clothes while buying more, and more, and more dolls. Well, you have to set priorities, and decide if you really want to buy 8 dolls a month or buy clothes. If you decide to buy masses of dolls, shut up and stop complaining.
If someone likes that one particular outfit or is just not interested in different outfits that's absolutely fine though. I have both here, dolls who are changing their clothes quite often and others who are usually in the same outfit for a long time (like my priest who's nearly always wearing his cassock).
Sorry if that sounds harsh, but something that grinds my gears the most is people complaining about a situation they could easily change but don't want to.
Unnecessary complaining is MY biggest pet-peeve

Back to Topic, hrm.
My meet experience was so far always very good, but I'm good at handling new people and know very well how to make friends, even when my opinions are sometimes a bit extreme or direct. But I always try to be nice and polite and greet new people as long as they behave.

We had a girl once who visited us and later complained on the forum how shitty the meet was, and everyone was so unfriendly and why did no one take pictures of her doll?
Truth was, she came with a friend and they both sat most of the time in a little corner, talking with each other. When someone talked to them they didn't really react, they didn't go around looking at other dolls or tried taking pictures of them. And there WERE people who took pictures of her doll, but since it weren't the "right" people with the fancy cameras and such she wasn't happy about that.
I must admit though that I wasn't interested in her doll at all as soon as I heard that someone asked her why she used nailpolish for the face-up and she got all defensive and angry about that
She complained later on other forums that we all are horrible elitists etc. and that she will never, ever go to a meet again.

That's another case of "Someone is unhappy and thus labels others as something they are not".
It's mostly less about what others do, but how someone feels about it.
Like someone said, when you think everyone hates you it doesn't matter if they really do, you "see" it in everything they do/say/write.

And often perfectionism gets mistaken for elitism, I know what I'm talking about.
My own standards are set very high, I have a certain taste in photos, clothes and dolls, and I just hate it when someone tries to take pictures of my dolls without my permission.
The last one mostly because I'm very attached to these characters and I've seen what others have done to my dolls when I didn't look (like, taking pictures of them having sex with one of their dolls and such...sorry, absolute no-go).
Absolutely nobody has to follow my standard, everyone can do what they want to do!
But please, please, don't try to shove me your whatever in the face and be all "You HAVE TO like it, because I think it's awesome!", because I'm pretty sure you wouldn't like that if I'd do that.
Everyone should be happy with what they do and like, but they should also realize that others don't need to feel the same. If you want to buy doll XY, DO IT. If you want to draw with Sharpies on it? Feel free to do so.
But don't expect me to be all "OMG, that's like the best thing I've seen my whole life", because I won't lie for you.

And I think THAT'S what a lot of people use as a reason to call someone an elitist.
Someone doesn't like what I like? Well, then he's surely somekind of horrible snob who only likes his own stuff etc., if that certain person also only owns expensive dolls in fancy dresses with wonderful face-ups he's of course something like a super-snob and a horrible human being.

 

No, I agree with you completely about everyone is also entitled to their own opinions. It just so happens that my view and take on things about BJD owners are different from you, as from anyone else. Again, as I've mentioned, its an pet peeve that has been worded/phrased wrongly. I'm not here making accusations or point fingers, its just that majority of these do happen-- as I would like to say, and agree with Ara* is that, I meant BJD owners who typically complains about not having enough clothes for their dolls yet go and buy another doll when they could've used that funding to buy the "said" doll's clothes. Again, this is just a pet peeve, and I had no intention of starting fire with the "Says a lot, doesn't it" phrase.

If there are people using the term inaccurately, then shouldn't there also be term to call their actions? It is a bit unfair that half of the time, many people don't realize they are being called an elitist just because you don't like certain someone's style or doll? My question is simple, wouldn't it be better to stop using the terms inaccurately or have better and less offensive terms to call one another?

 

If someone is called an elitist for not liking a style or doll, then one of the following two options are possible:
1) This person is unkind in their way of expressing their dislike and you may decribe it as rude.
2) The person using the term elitist should learn that someone not liking the same thing is not a personal insult and then there is no descripton that should be used. Just common sense.

I'm going to quote Chibaraki as she said it so much better than I could:

I don't think there should be a different term to call one other. Just some space for people to have different preferences. As long as something someone likes, does or haves is not hurting you or other people, you shouldn't let it upset you.

 

Again, I'd like to mention as I've did few posts earlier.

During my experience at the meet, an certain BJD owner who openly hates volks and quoted that the person believe most, if not all Volks owners are elitist, and openly called out and confused me as an volks owner because of my Switch dolls that have close resemblance to volks. Now, I wouldn't know what to call that as. Ignorance? Or, should I just shut up and take it in because people who says someone is an elitist is always right? That's what this all sounds like to me currently.

 

There is already a term for using a word inaccurately - inaccuracy. If someone calls you an elitist, perhaps you can start politely explaining exactly what elitism is and demonstrating why that doesn't apply to you?

Elitism is now a 'catch all' term in this hobby used to explain away why people don't like you, why people don't like your dolls, why someone didn't say hi to you at a meet... Elitism is purely 'consciousness of or pride in belonging to a select or favored group' and an elitist is purely 'a person having, thought to have, or professing superior intellect or talent, power, wealth, or membership in the upper echelons of society.' Neither of these words implies that being an elitist is a terrible, horrible thing, or that elitism is offensive and rude.

You can be a happy member of a Dream of Doll owners' group without hating on all other doll owners and their dolls. You can believe that Fairyland dolls are utter perfection in resin without saying all other dolls are worthless. Elitism doesn't give you free rein to be rude, it just means that you have your preferences and are unlikely to be swayed away from them.

What I have found is that the anti-elitism backlash can be more vicious than anything an elitist is supposed to have said. Everyone is equally as capable of being polite as they are rude, what dolls you have really has nothing to do with it.

Yes, this is ignorant and rude behaviour. There's no need to create a brand new label for it when two perfectly good words already exist; ignorance and rudeness.

No one is telling you to accept anything based on 'people who say someone is an elitist is always right', this is actually the very opposite of what people have been saying in this thread.

People who cry 'elitism' are most likely to be people projecting their own fears and insecurities on to a situation. A person who is secure in their doll choices and comfortable in their own likes and dislikes isn't going to be looking for elitism wherever they go and as a result, if there is a case of genuine elitism, they're more likely to spot it because they're not blinkering themselves by seeing spectral elitists wherever they go

 

In other areas of life, being considered elite is a positive thing, like being an elite athlete. It means you are the best of the best, something to strive for.

But thank you, thank you, thank you! It cannot be stressed enough that elitism is not rude behaviour and rude behaviour is not elitism. It is perfectly possible to actually prefer one doll brand and look down on all others and still act like a perfectly polite person to others, just like it is entirely possible that people who act like jerks at doll meets are just jerks no matter what and that it has nothing to do with elitism or what dolls you or they own.

 

I completely agree with you on this. Why is it not okay to wish you had more clothing for your dolls AND wish you had more dolls period? Clothes aren't much of a priority for me personally because 1) They're expensive, 2) I plan to start sewing them, and 3) Dolls don't get stale in their clothes like humans. My Soom Amber will wear one outfit forever, which is her LE outfit. Simply put, nothing else looks as good as that outfit on her. I will choose to buy a doll over the outfit almost any day because you can always get clothes. Doll sculpts come and go, and can become increasingly expensive. I still wish I had more outfits for my other dolls, but I just bought another head today I do not believe I am complaining nor do I believe I am neglecting my dolls. They are only dolls, they don't need as many clothes as I do. I think it is mainly interpretation, though I am sure some people may complain. But I doubt that the majority that chooses to buy dolls instead of clothes is complaining, since it is their choice.

In general, when someone is considered "elite" in this hobby, it really means that the person is just plain rude to other people based on what dolls they have or do not have. Or how they choose to enjoy their dolls. It's nobody's business if someone decided to buy dolls just to bury them in their backyard. Some people buy cars just to have them rust in their yard. People who are bold enough to criticize and judge anyone's collecting habits would be like this no matter what they were collecting, whether they were collecting dolls or stamps, much like Kim stated. It's in their personality to call people out.

 

I'd call that "their loss", because that person is missing out on some really nice sculpts and doll owners by drawing conclusions too quickly. If they clearly state they don't want to get to know you, it's their loss and you can't force them to break through that wall around them they have built themselves.
If I would be hurt each time someone said they don't want to get to know me, because I have X or Y regardless of what I actually have, I wouldn't have energy left to spend on nice people and on doing nice things. Some people don't act nice all the time, but not every perceived wrong needs to be pursued with someone brought to justice. I'd rather not spend time on figuring what label to stick on someone who thinks I'm not worth their time. I'd just let it go and focus on what I like.

 

This describes my situation too. My dolls mostly have one outfit each and they stay in that outfit til the end of time or until I change their look. This is for several reasons; firstly, dolls don't sweat or dash around ripping their outfits (though I have been known to drag them throught bushes), so the outfits never get damaged. Also, my dolls tend to have very particular fashion senses, shall we say. There are not many clothes around that suit a two hundred year old ghoul, sadly. Also, I'd rather they all had one expensive, good quality outfit then several cheap and badly-made outfits. Their clothes mostly come from Dollheart and I simply can't afford (and don't want) to buy more than one outfit for each doll.
Finally, I just don't care that much about clothes. I really don't. They just don't register that high on the priority scale for me, and I'd rather have more dolls with less clothes than vice versa.

 

I personally view things this way:

Let's have person A, B and C.

Person A likes well dressed dolls and quality photography. To person A the company doesn't matter, what matters is if the doll fits his aesthetic tastes. Person A will not insult a doll owner because of their doll's amateur face up or clothes. He won't comment at all. This is preference.

Person B finds certain companies superior to others. Person B does not accept dolls from the 'inferior' companies, will insult people who own them and say his views are the right ones. Person B only socializes with people who share his views. Others are 'stupid' or 'ignorant' because they do not share person B's views. If person B likes a doll and discovers it's from an 'inferior' company, he dislikes the doll immediately. This is rude elitism.

Person C argues with and insults anyone who does not share his views - be it on dolls, companies, gore mods/whatever. That's just rude.

As for me, I fall into the first category. I don't care about 'brands', if I like doll A, I compliment. If not, I don't have to be rude, I just won't comment at all.

This reminds me of children/teenagers who are willing to bully others because they don't shop at X and don't share their views on Y...

 

I disagree - Person B may be an elitist, but their primary attitude is rude rather than elitist.

Elitists are not automatically snobbish or rude. A person can prefer a brand to the exclusion of all others without bitching about the people who do like other brands. A person can believe only one certain brand of doll are perfect without being rude towards people who don't share their views. Elitists will only buy brand x dolls and dress them in brand y clothes with brand z eyes and wigs. They will only photograph their dolls a certain way and may not like others to touch their dolls without permission... none of these things are rude, but they are elitist.

You're welcome I agree with you - the sporting elite are role models and inspirations. I think the only other arena that uses 'elite' as a derogatory term is the world of fashion, but even then it's not as over-used and wrongly applied as in this hobby.

 

I also think that one of the reasons people don't encounter many elitist IRL is how would you know if they weren't rude about? Most elitist probably only talk badly about other's dolls when they're in the company of like minded individuals.

 

I agree with you, Jescissa. Reading few pages I was under the impression that we're discussing the rude and snobbish side of elitism, the one that can hurt another person. I orginally had person D, the one you described, but ommited him. xD
I'll edit my previous statement, to clarify that I meant 'rude elitism'. ^^

Just as Kim said, a jerk is a jerk, no matter what.

Just a question to Jescissa - why do you add "touching without permission" as an elitist trait? Do you mean some sort of rude or emotional reaction when one touches another's doll without permission?

 

I don't understand how this makes someone elitist? Most people photograph their dolls a certain way because that's their style, the way they feel most comfortable with or flatters their dolls the most. I photograph my dolls like they're in a horror movie, but that doesn't mean I think the naturalist style or romantic style or whatever is any worse!
Also I don't think disliking when people touch your possessions without permission is elitist. That's normal, isn't it? I wouldn't like someone to touch my dolls if I didn't say it was OK because putting your hands on other people's stuff is just not done, especially if it's fragile expensive stuff. I have a housemate who often comes into my room to fiddle with my stuff and it drives me up the wall- not because I'm an elitist but because it's disrespectful.

 

Oh yes, I remember this kind of behaviour... When I was a teenager, certain jeans brands were the hit here in northern Germany. There was this ongoing debate about "My Levi's is better than your Replay" which I failed to understand and to partake in. I wasn't even a mobbing victim despite not wearing brand items, because I simply wasn't impressed enough by the whole thing, and thus no fun to make fun of. One day I came to school in a random pair of jeans that my Dad had given me on my 12th birthday, and my friends were all "Wow, your 501 looks awesome on you!" and I didn't even know what they were talking about until they explained it. I just don't get the whole "you are 'in' if you do this and that" thing. I don't like to do what others say, except it appears sensible to me anyway. Irrational things don't.

This is probably the reason why I still fail to understand the reasons behind "company X is better than company Y", "company face-ups are better than custom ones", "clothes from company Z are the only acceptable choice" etc. To me, these are all only subjectively seen qualities, advantages and disadvantages of certain dolls, like I stated in my first answer in this thread. I think preference is pretty much the word for it. Anything else - "elitism", "ant-elitism", "doll abuse", all this name-calling - is artificially created. It can fulfill a social function, but I fail to see any logic and reality in it. This, probably, is MY pet peeve

 

If you thought your dolls were the most a-mazing dolls in the entire world to the exclusion of all others, I bet you'd feel uncomfortable if someone picked them up or played with their clothes without asking first

It's not rude to expect people to ask before touching your property. No, I didn't mean that an elitist person would be rude or emotional if someone touched their dolls without asking, but an elitist would feel very uncomfortable with it - possibly because if you believe that the dolls you favour and hold up to be the elite in the dolly world are so special, you might feel that someone who doesn't have the same dolls might not know how to treat them with care.

How they actually react to that discomfort is what shows what kind of person they are. There are polite ways of saying, "I prefer to be asked before people touch my doll." Very few people would scream at someone for just touching their doll.

Harlequin-elle - it's not an exclusive 'elitist' trait, but someone who isn't elitist about their collection is more likely to shrug off someone else touching their dolls and to be fine with someone taking a photo of their doll. An elitist is far more likely to be a perfectionist about how their doll appears and is presented rather than the average collector who loves their doll to bits but acknowledges that other dolls and doll brands are great too.

I'm not particularly comfortable with people touching my things without asking first, but provided that they're gentle I'll let it go for a simple life. It doesn't affect my enjoyment of the doll if someone else has touched it, but if someone believes their doll to be superior to others' dolls they might be unhappy if someone touches their doll - how they outwardly react to this (politely or rudely) has nothing to do with elitism and everything to do with the character of the person.

 

(From the OP)
I think doll "elitists" are like sasquatch. Everyone has a friend who has seen one, but nobody has any photos.
I've never met either a doll snob or a sasquatch. And I'm too lazy to go look for either one.

 

At the risk of getting dog-piled and called an "elitist" myself for not falling perfectly into line with the "all dolls are ~beautiful~ no matter what they actually look like" party-line, I'd say it's called Having Standards. And there's nothing wrong with that.