Elitism - How much is perceived?

From my personal experience, the only superiority-complexish behavior I've seen was when Iplehouse decided to discontinue their old YID line. The newer fans getting into the new sculpts started alienating other Iplehouse fans who appreciated the older design. Whether it was intentional or not, I found it to be pretty rude. Basically, they kind of ignored and smothered any kind of subject regarding the old line. I suppose it made sense. They didn't own any of the older dolls so they couldn't relate. Oh well.

I dunno. It might be just me, but it found pretty sad to be pushed to the back because I owned an obsolete doll.

 

They mean "popular" as in popular amongst the BJD community. They're the dolls you hear talked about often, like Soom MD's of Dollshe Hounds, or Unoa's (all I could think of at this moment).

 

Although I do enjoy my dolls because I like the molds, love the engineering and appreciate the artistic value of my dolls, which made me reach deep into my pocket and sacrifice other luxuries just to be able to pay for my dolls, what I enjoy is not the point of the hobby. It's why I'm in the hobby, but not the reason behind the hobby. The point of this hobby in genereal is dolls. Dolls. Not why you or me or anyone else enjoys them, as that's subjective.

Some people are really into smart-phones, but I got one that was cheap and that I can use to read email. Yesterday someone asked what kind of phone I have and I answered "It's a ... I don't know. As long as it works, I don't care." It's an attitude that probably abhors some smart-phone enthusiasts, but that does not concern me. It does not make me wrong. It does not mean I need to change my attitude.

It may make a doll enthusiast cringe to hear someone say "I got this doll, because it's cheap.", but that does not concern the owner of the cheap doll. The reasons why one person has and enjoys dolls may differ from the reasons another has and enjoys their dolls. There is no "One and True Way" in this hobby.

 

Justification is putting it nicely...I think of it more as a lame excuse. Your point about the discussion threads is a good one. There are a lot of people out there who love their "cheaper" dolls. No one is alone in their choice if that's what they want, like, can afford or whatever their reasons for going less expensive are. There's no need to seek out and find this elitism they whine about if they don't want too.

If people honestly think they're buying a recast so they can be liked in the community because they'll be looked down on for owning a "cheap Chinese" doll they're delusional. My RS Song gets more gallery comments than any doll I own. He gets more views on DA and comments pretty much anywhere. None of them have EVER been negative. Do I think there's "elitism" in this hobby? Yes. But not nearly as much as a lot of people think there is. I agree with the majority here that thinks it's more perceived than actual. I also think there's more of it coming from the opposite end...the elitism I've seen a lot recently (which, I have to add, has been in person, not on DOA) was actually from owners of only less expensive dolls making those owning Volks, IH, Soom, insertothernamehere, feel left out because they "paid too much" for their dolls.

I will never understand the mentality of someone who thinks buying an illegal recast of an expensive doll will help them to fit in better than a legit doll from a less expensive company. The more I try the more my brain want's to explode....

Also I want reinforce what others have been saying all along, not just in this thread but a few others...not everyone is going to like your doll. Get over it. Sorry if that's harsh, but really...it's not the end of the world. Way back when I had only had a dolls for about a year someone told me they didn't like my doll (to my face, not over some anonymous internet comment) because of the company he was from, which was Korean (not even Chinese). Their exact words. After I was done marveling at how incredibly rude they were, I moved on. I'm still here, I didn't bleed to death or whither away because someone didn't like my doll. Said doll is still with me, and still my favorite; I didn't disown him because of the comments of one person, or even a few people. If I did, I'd only be hurting myself by depriving myself of my most loved doll...the person who made the comments wouldn't care at all.


yeep, that comment got way longer than I meant it too....

 

It occured to me that this picture could be a scathing statement on how people justify their bootleg purchases, rather than the stab at expensive doll elitism I first took it to be... not sure why I read it that way to begin with, except that the picture is so warm and fuzzy that I assumed it was serious rather than sarcastic. And maybe because I saw it in the elitest thread. Or because it contained the word 'seriously'.

My brain figured this out while I was sleeping and woke me at 6:00 am to tell my concious self.

 

I thought once of buying a doll simply because it was cheaper. Although, to be really honest...I just never really cared too much for BBB/RS dolls, but I know that many owners really do love their dolls and that's all that matters. As long as you really love your dolls and not because they are popular or "just to own one". So, the doll that I'm waiting for now WAS the one I really wanted because it's better to have a doll that you truly want opposed to as having a doll just because others own them. And besides, it will be my very first BJD, so I want the best love for him because I know that I always wanted his sculpt.

Even now, I still always wanted a Soom MA and I will do all I can one day to earn the money to buy that doll, even if it takes me years. At least I know that I bought it because I truly wanted it and not because it was popular.

 

Great topic! My father and I were JUST talking about this. I’d first like to say that in the BJD world there are companies I don’t like and I wouldn’t buy from. It’s my tastes talking. Do I think someone is wrong for purchasing from them? Nope. It’s all about taste and preference. But I’m adult and mature enough not to judge that person for having their own likes.

Now to the OP’s questions!!!!!!!!!!!

How much of this dreaded elitism is something to actually worry about? Has elitism, as we see it, become something like an urban legend - a story that has basis in fact, but may have grown in the telling, or even happened years ago? Is it just that we dollie owners are so paranoid about elitism, so sensitive to criticism, that we jump at shadows, or do the elitists we've all heard about actually exist?

I see elitism in this hobby as well as in my other hobbies. I think it’s just a human condition. There is always a group thinking they are the right ones and anything else is wrong or beneath them. I think it’s a societal/human problem not just a BJD-hobby problem. It’s seen every where. Societal class, religion, community, hobbies, sports, art, and the list goes on... Maybe elitism in hobby form is a form of compensation for feeling inferior in other ways, a way to feel better about oneself in a place they could wield ‘power.’

Is it possible that the elitists (or snobs) under discussion are just people looking for a fight or argument for the sake of the fight/argument in and of itself?

Yes. There are people that like to argue just for the sake of doing it. Don’t get me wrong, a good debate now and again is healthy, but when it’s a fight with no concrete basis. Again, I think this is a form of compensation for feeling inferior in other ways, a way to feel better about oneself---in extreme example: an abused child growing up to be an abuser. It’s almost psychological.

Could it be that the elitists/snobs are cut from the same cloth, expressing a radical opinion in a hurtful manner just to get a response?

It’s possible. Children do something similar when they want attention. They aren’t getting it so they throw a tantrum.

And if so, should these people be considered under the tag of "elitist" or "snob"? How would we even know the difference?

Both. Curiosity made me check my dictionary and the definition is similar. Not exact but similar, and the thesaurus lists them as synonyms. I think the terms are situation based but mostly interchangeable.


I think the big thing is to recognize when a person is being “elitist” or “snobby” and not engage the behavior. I think that when it happens to just ignore it; remember the child having a tantrum. I think it's a maturity issue as well. It’s sad and you have more important things to do.. like enjoying your dollies.

 

the commentor didn't put in the picture, the owner of the blog did.

 

Having no vision is yet another hallmark of the criminally-self-absorbed whiner who thinks that the current popular "It" item is the only way to personal betterment. All they can think about is Me Me Me and Now Now Now, as is evidenced by the willingness to settle for something they don't like (or an illegal bootleg) just to be "In", right now, rather than take the time/effort to save up for the doll they love. This, of course, obscures & warps their view of other people & their view of the future.

To wit: The Iplehouse YIDs are now "obsolete" to newbies, because they've just now been discontinued-- but to a collector, they're suddenly "Rare/Hard-To-Find", and will only go up in value as they get more scarce in future. Today's "obsolete" is tomorrow's "rare classic". I have to say that nobody has yet tried to slam my collection for being so heavy on older-model dolls-- but then it must be said that I don't hang around short-sighted shallow people that much, and I give them short shrift when I encounter them in discussions. And my friends are way classier than that (I could never imagine even one of them being so asinine!).

 

How tragically true this is.

 

Yes! I see my darling Louis as rare treasure!

The newbies' excuse for bashing YID is because they're "anime" looking and aren't realistic enough. Oh c'mon! The older members of Iplehouse who bought their YID's voted to get the new realistic molds...oh wait! The ones you guys are so in love with! Hmm... Iplehouse didn't just pull this idea all by themselves! /end small rant. If you ask me, some of the older YID's looked more realistic than some of the other sites like DOD or etc.

 

*Shrug* I'm a newbie and I'm not crazy about the old YIDs. They do look really dated compared to the rest of the Iplehouse line. I can really see that the sculptors have grown a lot since they first started, and I'm really glad that they're updating the YID line. I might actually get one if the boys are as pretty as the girls.

That said, I wouldn't get snarky with someone who likes the old YIDs and I'd expect them not to get snarky with me for disliking them.

 

I feel the same way. Buying popular dolls just for attention is something I really don't get at all. I can't imagine putting so much money and emotional energy into something with the only goal of getting squee posts on an online forum. Don't get me wrong, it feels really awesome when someone (rarely haha) compliments one of my dolls but I consider that an extra bonus to owning them, not the main reason to own them. I buy my dolls for me.

 

Thank you for saying this; it connects to the whole idea of getting the doll you like because *you* like it. People will talk about the newest thing, but it doesn't mean the old is horrible. It doesn't even mean they necessarily dislike the old; they may not have known about them or they may not have had the opportunity TO form an opinion on it. Regardless of how others feel, it doesn't make a doll, company, resin color, resin type, etc. any less valued to the owner. Or it shouldn't anyway. Developing the ability to step back and refusing to take things personally really helps.

 

Sorry, I was ranting a little bit. ^^;

 

When it all comes down to it, you have to buy the doll you want. After the meet-up ends, after the forums and blogs slow down to a stop (because of how late it is), you're going to want to turn and see a doll you love and are proud of.

The people who matter aren't going to care what company your doll comes from, or how popular the doll is. The people who matter aren't going to judge you because your doll spends all its time in a sock dress, or that your photos aren't "up-to-par" with those who have more experience. The people who matter are going to embrace you no matter what company your doll comes from or what it wears. They're going to encourage you to improve your skills in face ups, photography, sewing, etc,... and share the joy with you when you improve.

When you're doing something you love to do, you feel it. You feel a sense of pride in what you've decided to undertake - not pressure. You shouldn't feel pressured into buying a doll, or any product you don't want, for any reason. If it's for attention, what happens when the individual isn't getting the attention they thought they'd receive?

 

Well said Writerm!

I thought of something else that does smack a tiny bit of elitism, probably unintentional, but you quite often see people stating that people can always buy a Boboobie or ResinSoul, AOD, etc, less expensive doll instead of the higher price dolls that attract the recasters... I think I've even said it myself. But that is to assume that the dolls those less expensive companies produce are chosen because of their price. I am sure there are loads of people out there who chose their beloved doll from the cheaper company because they just fell in love with it. There have to be people out there who wouldn't swap their RS for a Soom MD any day! The heart wants what the heart wants and we all have different tastes. I find the idea of someone buying ANY doll just because they want to fit in so sad, they are robbing themselves of the chance to have such a great experience... it might just be falling in love with a lump of plastic to those outside the hobby, but come on, you all know what I mean!

 

I think this makes for a great example of where "elitism" (as this thread was originally addressing, whether that term is accurate or not) could be easily found when it was not at all intended.

As a DoD owner, there was a moment where I was raising an eyebrow hard at you, Ephemeral_Dream, for picking them of all companies to describe as non-realistic. The reason I bought my DoC was because I was in love with his realism as compared to any non-BJD doll I had encountered.

As a person who's read through this thread entirely, however, I can understand that you were definitely not implying that DoD is not inferior in any sort of bad way! Inferior in the specific criteria of realistic human proportions and style as compared to Iplehouse, sure, I could see that. Elistism check: Does that mean my doll/doll's company was being snubbed? Of course not.

If I were so inclined, I could sit here and say "Hmph, did they really need to throw that company in there? S/he doesn't own any themselves! Sound the elitist alarm!". But it's pretty obvious that wasn't the intended meaning in the reference. Taking two seconds to peek at Ephemeral_Dream's profile would even show an anime-inspired member image and a DoD on their wishlist. Elitism outcry easily avoided with a little rational thought!

A bit of snipping to get these two points next to each other, but here's another example. Elendae_Nersil came back to that first opinion to say that every person who buys a BBB is actually not doing this thing they made a blanket statement about, but has made no such gesture toward Fantasy Doll. I came into a used Fdoll body myself, and I'm quite fond of that as well. Elitism check: Do I really think you were intentionally trying to insult everyone who owns a Fantasy Doll? Not at all.

Both posters added a specific company name in their post in a less than flattering manner, when either statement would have been just as strong without that addition. I could say "DoD is much better at Korean or anime-inspired aesthetics than other companies, like Iplehouse", but I would probably phrase it differently--"DoD has an anime-influenced aesthetic, while Iplehouse is on the other end of the spectrum, with their remarkably realistic dolls". Ephemeral_Dream admitted they were ranting a bit in understandable frustration over other peoples' pushy opinions; Elendae_Nersil is frustrated with, if you'll forgive the pun, bad posers. I can see clearly even from my could-have-been-offended vantage that neither poster was being truly elitist (again, as the term is being addressed here).

Elitism is definitely there to be percieved, whether those perceptions are accurate or not.

I know when threads get up there in pages people don't necessarily read through the whole thing before they respond to the OP, but this is exactly the kind of post that a thread skimmer could glance at out of context, and go scampering off to trumpet another sighting of the dreaded Elitebeast. Not reading much of a thread (or even the entire first post) probably substantially increases the number of these supposed sightings.

I do also want to add another voice to what Jescissa said about elite/elitist/elitsm versus just rudeness or prejudice... this use of "elitism" may not be particular to DoA but it is a nonstandard variation on the term. There's nothing wrong with being an elite in your career or hobby, like an athlete, as has been said. That's something to aspire to. This view that anyone who's not aspiring to the same level of elitism as you have achieved yourself is less worthy, a bad doll owner, a doll abuser, an idiot... that's how people have been using the term in reference to BJD owners, and obviously there is something wrong with that. It's very interesting how the international voices in this thread interpret the word, and its context here, even among the diverse opinions that posters from the U.S. have; it seems to have a different connotation in countries where there's been an aristocracy or like division of classes.

Being elite is not a bad thing. Being a snob about it is. Being outwardly resentful of someone else for it is.

 

Well said, writerm! And so very true. The one thing I see as elitism that I personally get tired of on this forum is not related to any particular company. It is the oft-repeated advice to newbies to "not buy a doll just because it's cheap-save up for the more expensive doll you love."

Sorry, it's just not always the case. I bought my BBB Sprite as my first doll specifically because she was what I could afford and the amount of money I was willing to spend to know if this was a hobby I was truly interested in. I wasn't in love with her then, but even though I can acknowledge (and sometimes swear about!) her shortcomings, I love her now. As you can see from my sig file, I've branched out a bit since then, but she's still with me, as is her boyfriend, my RS Song, the doll I spent the least amount of money on. Yes folks, used and less than $100.00. The horror!

According to a lot of posts I've seen on the forum, this is a no-no! A horrible, serious no-no! You should always save up for that expensive doll you truly love. Well I can guarantee that, instant gratification junkie that I am, and as a person who didn't know for sure if I was really into this, that if I'd tried to save the $700 + for the Limwha Mano that I was in love with at the time, I wouldn't be here posting now. I'd have gotten discouraged at not being able to participate more fully and gone away. But I am here. And I'm not as in love with Mano as I once was, though he's still on my wish list. Peoples' tastes change. And they change particularly quickly when they are new to the hobby.

I am a huge fan of starter dolls. Boy was I happy my BBB wasn't a $500+ doll when I took her out of the box at the opening and her elastic broke and her pieces scattered all over my friend's living room. And boy wasn't I happy she wasn't expensive when I used acetone to wipe her face-up-right before reading the thread that said you had to use alcohol on coffee BBBs! I wish there was more tolerance and less contempt for the concept of a starter doll here. It's not always money wasted-sometimes it's a more valuable doll saved.

Yes, you're more likely to re-coup most of your money with a more expensive doll if you decide the hobby's not for you. On the other hand, you're not that much out-of-pocket with the less expensive doll and you usually don't have to mark it down that much either. Not everybody is going to try this and stay in the community. Yes, you might be less satisfied with that less-expensive doll, but it is just as likely to give you a taste for something better as drive you away from the hobby. That's what happened to me. And by the way, better is not necessarily related purely to price. My most favorite doll, if I had to name one, is my hybrid, not one of my limiteds. This idea that you must save up for that expensive doll because you won't love it otherwise...that sets the bar pretty high. What if you get that doll and don't love it? And are feeling guilty or disappointed because of that and all the money you spent? That would, I think, be as likely to make someone disenchanted with the hobby as the simpler sculpt and engineering of a BBB. Love and bonding in the doll world are a bit of a mystery-they happen when they will. I've seen too many $1000+ limiteds on the market have their boxes opened and be put up on the MP the next day, to think that the likelihood of bonding grows greater the larger the price tag.

As I said in an earlier post, at least in my part of the world, I've not experienced elitism in person. No-one has dissed me for my BBB/RS pair or my poor DIM rescue girl. And I've gotten more personal pleasure out of them than from some of my more expensive dolls. Trying to make all my dolls, cheap or expensive, look as good as they possibly can, is the fun part of the hobby for me.

 

I don't think it's elitist to recommend that someone go for the doll that appeals to them. Thinking with your budget as well as your heart doesn't spell disaster, it just requires a bit of balancing. There really is no point in buying a doll 'just' to have a doll. Don't buy a doll you think is unattractive just to have a doll. Don't buy a doll you're lukewarm about just to have a doll. This is what people mean when they say to newcomers to think before they spend.

I'm a list writer, so I like to write down the pros and cons of dolls before I buy. I like to work out how long a layaway would take me for Doll A compared with paying outright for Doll B. I like weighing up the faces and the bodies, the poseability and the customer service of the companies. These are all things I talk about when newcomers ask me about how to go about choosing a doll.

I'm on the other side of the fence, because I don't really believe in starter dolls. At least, it didn't work out for me. I bought a starter doll and was disappointed. I only really started to enjoy the hobby once I'd 'upgraded' and I had dolls that looked the way I wanted them to look and could pose the way I liked. Starter dolls work out great for some people, and not so great for others. I couldn't recommend them though, based on my own experience, unless I knew that the person asking wanted to do a lot of work and mods on their doll. For that kind of hands-on person, a starter doll or a kit doll could be the best introduction to the hobby and exactly what they're looking for. It wasn't what I was looking for myself, but I can see where other people get joy from it.

When people are asking about buying dolls, your response has got to be a mixture of your own experience/knowledge and working with what they want out of the hobby. If someone is looking for a highly-poseable doll, they are going to be more happy with a Minifee than a Bobobie, that's just the way it is. It's not a slight on the Bobobie, it's accepting that some companies are better for some things than others are.

The other thing that is thought of as elitist but really isn't, is recommending that newcomers read and research as much as they can before they get a doll. That's not condescending or mean. It's not preventing people from getting a doll if they want one, but it does mean that when they do get a doll they'll know what's resin-safe and what isn't, and the potential for damaging their gorgeous new doll right out of the box is limited. A lot of the accidental damage can be easily avoided by doing just a little bit of research. Money and feelings are saved through just a bit of time asking questions and reading over the answers.