Elitism - How much is perceived?

you all just made me feel a whole lot better. I was worried that I might have said/done something wrong. I honestly have no intention of ever being elitist. So my doll cost me 340 bucks.. SO WHAT. its a peice of art that I particularly fell in love with. I bought a FRANKENSTEIN painting for more.. to say that "my doll is better because it cost more" and stuff like that really irritates me. Im glad to see very few people are actually like that (so I've seen so far!). The amount of money spent on a doll really has no factor in how "elite" it is (IMO) but the amount of love from the owner towards that doll is where its at. My friend has upwards of 4 bjd's right now. And If I were to ask her which of her dolls she's most proud of its actually the least expensive of the bunch, and it was her first doll. She poured her heart and soul into making that doll exactly the way she wanted. Thats an elite doll. (not that she boasts about it or anything xD im just trying to say that money doesnt matter. its how much you love your doll and can appreciate others) people just need to learn to be more kind to others. to appreciate what others have, what others like.. idk. guess im more or less rambling now. haha

 

I would also be kind of put off by this, but I don't necessarily think it's 'elitist'; true, I think it's kind of odd that they would do that - like you said, they could've just asked you to move your doll a little to the side so it didn't look like they were a couple.

I know that some people are sensitive about their doll's character, and don't want to have their doll acting too out-of-character at a meet. Maybe she was just going about that the wrong way? Or maybe they have had to do the "they're not a couple" thing more than once, and are tired of it?

Either way, I do see it as rude to just pick your doll up and move it because a) it's not theirs to do with what they want, and b) simply asking you would've sufficed. And even if they didn't know whose doll it was, they could've easily just scooted it over; I doubt anything bad would've happened if they gently moved a doll to the left or right. I would be OK if someone wanted to move my doll over a little bit, just as long as they didn't have stuff on their hands.

If someone wants to act like they have some kind of superior place above me, then that's OK with me. I don't have to do anything to make them look upon me in a positive way; there are so many other people who don't care what doll you have that those other people don't matter. They're losing out on a lot of people who they could've gotten to know. You miss out on people when you choose to separate yourself from them, and they miss out on you. You gain a lot more respect as a resource than a repellant.

I enjoy helping others when I'm able. I like knowing I helped them solve a problem or get something right, and it doesn't matter if it's in the doll hobby or other aspects of my life.

 

Just to get up her nose, I would've answered "OK, but are you sure you want everyone to know your doll's a lesbian?"

Yet another gem! Wow. But srsly, that's not elitism... that's just plain old crazypants. And yes, Crazypants is the scientific term.

And it's also Rude, of course, because you simply don't pick up other people's toys without asking; even my 6-year-old niece knows better. Here, the correct path would have been for Crazypants to say, "Look, would you please move your Masculine Poison doll a safe distance away from my Sacred Yoni? He's encroaching upon her goddess space." OK, fine, you're crazy-- as long as you're not handling my doll without permission, your motives can be as crazy as they wanna be.

 

Ara, writerm and JennyNemesis - while the suggestions of scooting a doll over, asking to remove it etc. are all legitimate (I had to laugh sooo much at the Masculine Poison and teh Sacred Yoni ^^), there was actually an even easier possibility - the doll owner in question could have just picked up their own doll instead of Ara's and put it down somewhere else...

And back on topic: I am sometimes amused by both "elitist" behaviour, and "hate towards elitists". Sometimes I think that it happens just to spite others or for provocation. Or just to jump on the band wagon. So I think the Doath would be a great idea! Oh wait, let's make it BJDoath. For all forums. For the whole hobby. Or... Would it take out the fun for those who enjoy the "elitist" or "anti-elitist" behaviour?

 

Good point, there

There will always be people who think other people are meanies, stuck up, snobby, or what-have-you because you don't agree with their tastes, their doll's company, or what they do with it. Sometimes, it's because people don't have the best social skills or believe that disagreeing/difference in taste = bashing and meanness. Over time, I think most people will grow and change.

I think it's par for the course in any fandom or hobby - I'm sure in other hobby forums out there, there are weird fights going on over strange, seemingly benign things that somehow mean a lot to their situation. Remember the sock dress debate that got locked?

And there will always be someone - even a microcosm of people - who think that their tastes, their dolls, their style, their methods are above all others. That's also how it is in fandoms, hobbies, and in the general world.

I don't think the debate will ever end because new people keep coming into the hobby, and a lot of them pick up false information about hobbyists and how 'elitist' it is. The question will always come up, and while those of us already in the hobby and have had time to interact with people know that it's a really minor thing, new people won't.

 

@cirquemom: Thanks, don't worry about it ;p. I agree with the last part of your post. Most people are honest in their choices and in the way they respect those of others (at least in this hobby) and it's nice to sit with a bunch who won't give you funny glances when you're having a doll sitting on your lap.

 

Oh God, that cracked me up
If that would have been her words I would have gladly taken my "masculine poison doll" and take a step back from her...or better five.

No, seriously, back then I really just thought "what an elitist bitch", but I was still new and such a thing like people being picky about their doll having a strict character and how they are seen by others was just weird for me.
Not to mention the whole picking up and putting away thing.

I think different about that now, your look on the hobby, yourself and other collectors changes a lot throughout the years.
Nowadays I can understand her better, because I got more picky about my dolls too, but still...NO TOUCHY

 

I think one reason that this continues to be a hot topic, even though it has been discussed to death, is that no one has really addressed the TRUE investment in these dolls, whether they are on the high-end of the scale or the low end financially. The real investment in any of these dolls for most people, is the little pieces of their heart and soul that goes into their doll, not the amount of dollars they have spent on them. These are not collector Barbies to be left in their boxes up on some shelf. For most of us, they are not "things" at all- they are characters we have created, dreams we have skinned, companions in lonely times, a willing and non-judgmental ear, and so forth.
So when you have this little spirit sitting next to you, or on you, and someone judges you harshly for it, whether they accuse of being an elitist for the doll you have chosen (or in reality, the doll that has chosen you), or owning a "cheap" doll- it hurts. They aren't talking about a "thing"- they are talking about something that represents a magical and intangible being.

 

this is a prime example. Yes. this completely. It hurts to be judged on something you hold so dearly to your heart. Some people just dont take the time to listen and learn, others are just so closed minded they dont even want to.

Question to the public again;
when Im asked about how much my doll cost, I get really nervous. Im afraid to say exactly how much because.. well.. he was more expensive than id like to admit haha n.n;

one time when downtown shopping with my friend I brought my doll with because we were going to hit up a doll store near that mall. Some lady asked me the usual "what is that? what does it do? how much did it cost?" type of questions and my friend announced $340 just for the doll. the lady gave me such a rude look like.. wow this kid has THAT much money to blow on a stupid doll?

Its not that I BLEW money.. I worked my butt off to save for him. To EARN him.

sorry for the digression, but how does one go about not sounding snobby when announcing the price of your doll when "id prefer not to say" isnt applicable?

 

First of all- to determine the true cost of something, you divide the number of hours you spend enjoying it into the amount of money you spent on it.

If you spend $340 on something you spend hundreds of hours enjoying, it is actually much cheaper than something you spend $34 on and enjoy for twenty minutes.

I NEVER tell people how much they cost. If anything, I will say, "It depends on the doll, the prices can range anywhere from $80 to a couple of thousand dollars". I never tell them how my the doll I am holding in my hands cost. Everyone in the hobby knows what they are worth; people outside of the hobby might overhear it and think...."Wow, I'm going to steal some of those and sell them." Either that, or like you said, they are going to give you a rude look and think...wow, she spend THAT much money on a stupid doll?"

Usually I give a vague answer like- they are quite expensive (and let them interpret that how they want- to some people $25 for a Barbie is expensive). And then go on to explain that they are actually little movable pieces of art- that each doll is hand-made in a factory that might just be one or two people, making the dolls in very small batches of anywhere from ten to 50 dolls at a time (I'm guessing here), the dolls are made of many individual pieces that must be hand-sanded, hand strung, and then the dolls are hand-painted.

Truthfully, it is none of anyone else's business how much you spent on your doll. I'd like to ask that lady - how much do you spend on manicures, pedicures, haircuts, botox, shoes, Starbucks, etc? I bet if she added that all up for three or four months she could easily come up with $340- and she ended up with nothing to show for it. You have a beautiful little doll.

 

I'm going to make a liar out of myself - having just told SixxMacabre that I was writing to her privately because I didn't want to repeat myself on the thread yet again (and I was agreeing pretty much with the prevailing notion that said lady asking the question was just plain rude).

But this post by you, cirquemom, is a thing of beauty that will be a joy forever, just like the dolls in question. Thank you for this.

It puts in a positive light why nobody wants to be quizzed about the financial cost of their dolls and/or have their expenditures judged as "better than/worse than" anyone else's. It's not really about the money. It's about the dolls.

I thus must retract my admittedly tongue-in-cheek song cue about this being the thread that never ends. That was disrespectful of me. (Silly, yes. Not meant to be disrespectful, of course, but still...) Je foux.

 

When it comes to disclosing the cost of these dolls, I don't tell anyone but my immediate family. People can get very opinionated and odd, for lack of better word, when it comes to spending money on luxuries. For example, I have a friend who would never spend anything over $100 on a luxury item - he truly believes that it's a waste of money and only shops at discount stores, despite being very well off. However, he has no problem going out to a restaurant and dropping upwards of $300 per person on a meal. To him, experiences are worth much more than possessions (other than basic furniture, etc.). It's all a matter of priorities and perspective.

If you (general) don't feel like disclosing the price of the doll, then, like cirquemom suggests, give a range of prices that these dolls fall into. Alternatively, you can just claim ignorance and say that the doll was a gift, therefore you don't know its cost.

 

That's okay! (and thanks for the kind words!) I got frustrated with the "Elitism/ReverseElitism" a long time ago when I saw that thread going nowhere FOR EVER!!!! And I vowed to never, ever get involved with this discussion again. But then one day I was bored, popped in for a minute....and yikes, here I am sucked into it again!
So I did some real thinking about this and realized that the reason the topic is never-ending is that it always addresses the more superficial aspects of it- "They were mean to me, they said this, they accused me, my doll of that, etc. etc. etc."
And I realized that it really does go deeper than just having comments made. It HURTS, because each doll is a little representation of a part of our hearts. And when someone bashes the doll, they are really breaking our heart.

 

I tell people I trust what my dolls cost... but not, I'm having trouble remembering! All I really know for certain is that the MSD-sized DM Kid was about $100 more than my SD-sized BBB Apollo - and the Doll Love Alice I'm seriously looking at (and hopefully saving for soon) is going to be just a little more than the DM Kid. I know that much, but I don't remember exact prices anymore.

But like I said, I tell people I trust the cost - I've told friends, classmates, my family. They might think it's way too much money, but I know no one's going to do anything... nefarious with that info.

 

I've only had one conversation with an elitist/'snob', it didn't last very long, I don't see much point in talking to people like that. I've been in the hobby about 6ish years so I think I've done rather well not to mix with that crowd.

All that 'Those dolls are ugly, my dolls are much more superior, they are from X company' is so boring. If everyone liked the same thing they'd all wanna date your grandpa! It doesn't make sense to me to feel so self important when there are so many other beautiful dolls coming from so many other hard working and good quality companies.

 

Maybe because this is their only shot at being semi-important? I had been thinking about something similar to this debate today, and I think a lot of times, people feel self-important in some areas - even areas as minor as BJD collecting - because they might not feel important or appreciated elsewhere. Maybe, because they finally have a Soom or a Volks, or they have been in the hobby for a few years, some individuals feel that they are in a position of 'power'?

Maybe they feel mistreated at home or at school or at work and their feelings of superiority are their way of feeling like the people who have 'mistreated' them?

It isn't a healthy way to deal with things, if that's the case for some of these people. It's not fair to the people who are being put down. Chances are, those people have done nothing to this other person to warrant such behavior.

It's good to feel knowledgeable in a subject, particular field or a hobby, but it's not good when feeling knowledgeable turns into a projection of ones feelings of self onto others.

 

I actually agree with this. Throughout my life, I've met so many people who put people down over the smallest things they have that they think are better, from watches to notebooks! Everyone has stress, and I feel that many people are bullied by someone else at one time or other, so they probably want to feel stronger than someone, even though it might be about a doll.

I also think that people are overly ignorant if they have these feelings. They just haven't seen the dolls they are putting down in person and only have experience with their dolls, and since people largely gain their experience from the internet and pictures can sometimes be misleading, they don't have a chance to change their ideas themselves.

I actually feel self-conscious, because if you look at my signature, most of my dolls are Volks. I don't buy Volks because I feel like it's the best company. I buy their dolls because I just happen to like this mold, or that mold. I also look for deals, and so far, each doll I have bought I got for a lower price than I see them online for now.

But even though I'm confident in myself and my dolls, I'm afraid that people will look at me and think that I'm some big snob. I haven't been able to read the whole thread, and am not sure if someone has already said this, but does anyone feel like this too?

 

Brand snobs irritated me back in high school when it was all about clothing, they irritate me just as much now in the BJD community.

 

100% AGREED!

I've witnessed more than my share of doll snobbery. It was ultimately the reason why I'd left the hobby for a few months. I know several other people who left the hobby for the same reason but also came back for the same reason - we missed our dolls!

Snobbery isn't just about preferred doll companies, it's also about social standing. There are the have's and the have-not's in this hobby and we all stick out like sore thumbs to the opposite side.
Photography skills, clothing items, backgrounds/sets, the eyes & hair used, the customizations to the dolls, it all costs money in one way or another.

Speaking from my own experience - I've been snubbed and even run out of certain threads for these reasons. I also no longer attend meet ups. I spend as much time on the forums as I do because I have nothing else right now aside from school. When I'm finally working again and can afford to be a doll snob (for my dolls, not to other people), I don't know if I will become more or less active here.

Speaking for the other side, I know some people who prefer quantity over quality and it does force one to ponder the purpose. It's an expensive hobby no matter how cheaply you do it. These dolls deserve to look gorgeous.
I'm kind of caught in the middle. I can't afford to make my dolls look as good as I'd like them to. But I've witnessed some who don't even try. I'm treated poorly by those "above" me, and yet, I can't always connect with those of the less fortunate variety. But I would never make anyone feel badly about their doll.

Bottom line: to each, his own!

Some people should at least be considerate if not accepting.

 

^

Reason why I was terrified to join DOA....No offense you guys but there was a lot of intimidation....Plus lurking that made me just terrified to even think of joining...


Funny how I'm here now eh? Mainly because I couldn't lurk googling certain threads anymore and wanted to ask my own questions too....So I got an invite and joined.

But I am happy to report I haven't been 'snobbed' yet.

Yet. (Most of you will probably want to yell at me for what half of my doll's wardrobe will be....Sock sweaters, sock cloaks, sock dresses, sock T shirts sock....Socks....)

But yeah....DOA itself has a bad rap on some other sites for being elitest too....Just sayin' that's what I heard...