Elitism - How much is perceived?

Surreality has pretty much said it for me, far better than I could have. I shall only add this: if wishes were horses then beggars would ride, and that is pretty much the stance we take on issues of wanting in my family. As for elitism, in a hobby this expensive, I'm not surprised it exists- but I am surprised at the various ways in which people engage in it.

I have personally met doll collectors who had one doll to my eight, but wouldn't speak to me because they felt themselves to have the doll with superior dress and style. I have also seen something similar in those who "hate" Volks ganging up on those who love them, and those who love them snubbing those who don't. Especially in those types of debates, I think a good deal of this is perceived- on both sides though. People have such a vested emotional interest in their dolls that any hint of one not in complete agreement with their personal choices offends them. It's really a shame, because to the "uninitiated" outside of the BJD hobby, one doll is much like another.

Bottom line is, we make a great deal of upset out of very little- if someone has an opinion that differs from one's own, I know it's hard to sit there and say- "well, that's their opinion" but we can't have it out with everyone that disagrees with us! I've seen plenty of dolls I thought I'd never like done up to look quite lovely, and when I come across that, I'm not shy about giving credit where credit is due, even when I still think I'd never buy that doll. Someone obviously saw something in it that I didn't.

 

I don't have a great deal to say, but I will say that some people (and we all know one or two in real life, admit it) will scream DISCRIMINATION! anywhere, for any reason, even if it's not there. Same goes for dolls. Like mentioned above, if someone says, "I normally hate DollX, but yours is lovely!" then that would come across to some as an insult, but personally? I see that as a compliment. Someone is saying "normally I find this thing butt-ugly, but you are talented enough that you managed to make this into something gorgeous." Maybe it's not the most eloquently worded compliment, but it's just that, it's someone stating that you were able to make something great. And them hating DollX? That's not snobbery or elitism, it's opinion. We all have one.

It's also worth mentioning that for every die-hard Volks loyalist, there's a Resinsoul loyalist, a Fairyland loyalist, an Iplehouse loyalist, and so on. It doesn't mean they're elitist or a snob, it means they have one favorite brand. I'm definitely a Fairyland loyalist with a distaste for Resinsoul and Angel of Dream, but it doesn't mean I'm a hateful ball of elitism. I don't judge someone for their doll choices, but I do happily maintain my ability to have an opinion. I'm not going to walk up to them and tell them I don't like their doll, nor will I walk up to anyone carrying a doll I don't like and slap it out of their hands while shouting insults. (The way some people have told these stories of elitism, you'd think the latter had really happened to someone...) It seems these days that being loyal to or especially fond of one company is the same as being an elitist. All those awful people with their herds of FCS dolls must be elitists! It can't possibly be because they like them or anything.

The bottom line is, not everyone is going to like every single doll there is. They have a right as a sentient being to have an opinion and trying to convince everyone to sugarcoat everything just so we can all be lovely special snowflakes is just silly. It would breed a community of liars and fakes if everyone was convinced that having an opinion made them a horrible elitist and that they can't have an opinion lest they become pariahs.

Have you opinions, have your loyalties, and just stick to the age old saying: if you can't say something nice, don't say anything. Take your snark to a website designed for it, or to a Livejournal, or to quietly snickering behind your hand at a particularly unfortunate looking doll.

And last, are there elitists? Sure, without doubt there are a handful of elitists in this hobby as well as everywhere else in the world. But I think the vast majority of people seeing elitists everywhere are seeing what they want to see rather than the truth.

 

No way, this is clearly an occasion that calls for Barber's "Adagio For Strings".

 

I've been personally on the receiving end of inverse elitism once at a meet a few years ago from someone who had been on the receiving end of elitism in turn. At that point she had mostly dolls from Chinese companies, and someone had been very sniffy about how she didn't have "real" BJDs and insinuated she shouldn't be in the hobby at all. She was obviously feeling rather touchy and raw about it, though I didn't know that was why until much later.

At the meet I asked to look at her Bobobie March as I'd been considering getting one but not having any tinies myself at that point had no way of mentally picturing their size. I happened to remark upon the fact that hers didn't have a face-up yet; she glanced at my dolls then remarked that "Not all of us can afford to splash out on custom face-ups and fancy clothes, you know!"

All my dolls were wearing clothes I'd made myself, and I did their face-ups. I'd have offered to do hers for free except I was so stunned by the dismissive way she said it that I just handed back her doll and said nothing. She had a massive chip on her shoulder and obviously had a nasty case of inferiority complex going on, which I thought was a huge shame. One person being bitchy to her had had a knock-on effect.

 

I know this might open up a can of worms here... But I was wondering if people consider the "sister" site to DOA, the one where people post photos of people's dolls to make fun of them, would be considered "elitist?" It might not be brand elitist, but it is making fun of people who are terrible at faceups, etc. So it kinda looks down on newbies (though, as we all know not everyone who "sucks" at faceups is a newbie. If it were me, it would be because I just suck at doing artsy things regardless of how long I've been doing it).

I've seen threads where people who consistently made bad mods were being mocked... But it makes me wonder, because most people start out pretty terrible. And it's hard not to be proud of your work when you first start out no matter how terrible! I don't know. I was wondering what other people think of the sites where people make fun of other's dolls. Whether you consider that to be elitism.

 

I don't think it's elitist at all. It's snarky, yes, and it's catty, but it's not elitist. It's saying "Wow, you should probably try more on that" (though in not as nice of a way) than "Hey, because we spend $XXXX on faceups and you didn't you should go jump in a fire." I think that adds to a little bit of the cries of elitism in the fandom-not quite understanding what elitism actually means, so every meanness becomes elitist.

For example...
Elitist:
Oh man, did you see this person's absolutely AWFUL faceup? They didn't pay (super expensive artist) to do it! They clearly are just awful people, but since we paid (artist) to do our doll's, we're not. We're better.

Not Elitist:
Wow, this person used sharpie and a nail file on their doll even though they were repeatedly told the right things to use, and are now begging for help fixing it (or displaying it proudly). They are also telling other people to use sharpie because it worked for them. That's just awful, and people are going to ruin their dolls too now for following their advise.

 

Probably the vast majority of elitism is perceived although I'm sure that there is some true elitism out there; it's just human nature for some to have that attitude.

I am fortunate to have never encountered anything approaching elitism in this hobby since I have been in it. I have never been to a meet-up though, which seems to be where quite a few people have had elitism incidents.

Our own attitudes are responsible for so much of what we perceive in other people. And I think it is SO important to remember that we always have control over how we react to others; whether their actions are perceived or "real".

 

Wow, I had no idea such a site existed. That's just....wow.

 

Lycansea, the other forum you're refering to is certainly not a "sister site" to DoA, and is not affiliated with DoA in the slightest.

I don't think it is elitism, I think it's just snark and nastiness.

 

There is a thread on those sites already -- locked, I think -- so I am not going to address the first part of that, because I did so there.

No, I don't necessarily consider it elitism. Saying you (generic you) find something hideous is not the same thing -- it it stating an opinion. If it crossed over into insisting the owner is X, Y, or Z negative thing because they own that thing? It could get closer to elitism, to me.

No matter how attached we are to our dolls, we are not our possessions. A criticism of our dolls is not necessarily a criticism of us as a person. One of the traits of elitism -- at least to me -- involves the blurring of that line, as in, "That person is an idiot for owning a doll that I don't like." The line blurs from the other side, too, it is important to note, by people who are playing the victim, as in, "I can't believe that person said 'you could add another layer of blushing to intensify those colors' in my crit thread, how dare they insult me!" The attachment many feel to their dolls works to our collective detriment in this way.

 

Thinking outside the box a little bit here. Why should anyone worry about elitism anyway? When Volks first produced BJD's for consumers, they created a very small and specific platform for collectors, whether they came from the doll world already or were newcomers into any sort of hobby. The purpose of these dolls were for owners to appreciate their personal, customized creations.
What boggles the mind is why anyone should care what someone has to say about their doll, whether it's about the specific styling or the doll's company as a whole. Perhaps owners should reconsider why they get into hobbies in the first place if they're literally downtrodden upon the realization that their gallery posts didn't get more than 3 comments. DOA is a fantastic community for owners to come together and appreciate each other's work, but when I hear someone cry "elitism" just because their doll isn't getting any attention, I can't help but rest my head in my hand and sigh. Attention isn't the point of the hobby. It's about the work you put into your doll, and if anyone's condescending when regarding said work, I'd turn around and ask myself why I even cared to show it off in the first place. Of course, when critical analysis isn't warranted, the ones dishing it out aren't elitist. They've probably been unfairly judged for some reason or another and BJD's are a way to compensate for their lost pride.

 

QFE. I have seen so many people QQ (cry, get snippy/offended, whatever) because their dolls didn't win some popularity contest that is going on solely in the owner's head. IMO, that's where a lot of these cries of "elitism" come from in the first place.

Some people seem to be in this hobby solely to spam photos of their dolls in order to receive love and adoration from the masses. There's nothing wrong with that. But I've noticed a correlation between these types of personalities and the Myspace syndrome: the spamming of a string of completely out of focus, badly-lit, random photos with no styling, theme or consideration to any of the other elements that make for good photography (that were probably taken on a pixelated webcam or cell phone to begin with.) If you're not even *trying* and are posting dozens of photos just to get attention, don't be surprised when someone saves their comments for a thread that looks like the owner put some time and effort into their photos.

 

Not to mention a lot of very GOOD work does go unnoticed because, well, it gets buried so quickly! I just glanced at the general gallery category and there are over 100,000 threads! Chances are good that plenty of people who do take their time to style their dolls nicely and take good photos will be overlooked, simply because there's just too much to look at. I know I tend to look at threads that feature sculpts I like, and I would guess many other people do the same thing. It follows that very popular dolls will get more views than unpopular dolls. I figure if I get a handful of comments on one of my picture posts, it's pretty much a miracle, considering the amount of threads going up at any given time, and I appreciate the comments I do get, it makes me feel good to know that someone took the time to say something nice because they liked my picture or doll.

 

I feel this way too now. At first, while not crying "ELITISM!", I DID take gallery views personally. But, just looking at the sheer number of gallery posts that go up every hour, it's easy for a gallery post to be buried and quickly. Even if someone is good or has taken something interesting, it can get lost pretty fast depending. Plus, I do feel popularity of sculpts can play into it simply because, hey, some people may only have so much time and they go for what they want to see. I am a sensitive person so I took all this way too internally at first. But, then I stopped and realized that lack of comments shouldn't stop me from sharing my pictures. Plus I can't sit around ASSUMING why no one commented on a post. It could simply be that I'm just horrible at photography, something people don't really like to think about themselves. But, even if I WERE good (which I'm kinda not, ha!), if it was because someone did not like the sculpt I was posting, that's not elitism at all, that's just a preference that exists. If someone came in and told me I'm stupid for having the doll I have and why did I even waste time taking pictures of him, okay, THAT is elitism. But, you can't jump at shadows and assume the worst of every single situation.

I think that takes patience, learning, and redefining your (general "your") sensitivity parameters, though. I bounced into this hobby with high expectations of myself and high hopes of everyone in it. Within two months, I ran smack dab into ACTUAL elitism about my first doll and it floored me. It was actually a comment on here and I STILL find it hard to shake (again because I am so sensitive). For awhile, I very much let it make me bitter and mad and jumpy at anything construed as not positive. But, then I realized this hobby may not be widespread but it's not small and not everyone should be judged by one comment. That's honestly not fair and it just makes the hobby no fun. I mean, what is even the point of being in this rather expensive hobby if it's not fun?

So, I think that, while elitism is not some mythical beast that never happens, it's not everywhere in this hobby and IS pretty rare. People just need to learn the difference. A mean comment, a truthful comment that sounds mean but was meant to help, someone liking Brand X over Brand Y, lack of picture comments, etc. - not elitism, just how it is. None of that should define how anybody enjoys themselves in this hobby.

Well, that was awfully rambly.

 

This month's issue of Psychology today has a great article featuring getting and giving feedback - mostly negative feedback. It says that there are sensitive people out there who will take things personally. But at the same time, negative feedback is just a way of life. If we all agreed with each other all the time, we'd not only be choking ourselves, but we wouldn't be encouraging anyone to improve. Negative feedback is (or should be, depending on which site you go on) about getting someone to change their behavior.

They also say to not give any feedback unless asked because there's a kind of relationship between asking and receiving. It's kind of complex, and I don't want to explain it here. It just resonated the DoA forum, though in our discussion of what is elitism/snobbery.

 

I like the dolls I do because their aesthetic appeals to me and the same goes for the ones I don't. That being said, I can definitely appreciate the joy and attachment people get from their dolls even if they aren't in a style that I'd prefer myself. I'd like to think that everyone else feels the same way, I'm pretty sure this isn't the case. If I ever encounter elitism myself, I'll just shrug and carry on.

 

I have a variety of hobbies and am on other, non-bjd forums and I'll let you in on my discovery: people are pretty much the same every where you go. Most are nice people willing to share their enthusiam and love of _________, some are snobs, some are elitist, some are too sensitive, others not the least bit sensitive.

Oy, don't get me started on the all-pervasive snarkiness of life in the 21st Century.

I would add: it's difficult to understand intentions by reading words, which is why emoticons were invented. Now, if someone could invent a sarcasm font, we'd all be a lot happier. ;-D

 

Elitism? It takes one to recognize one.

 

I know I have favorite dolls in my collection! But, I would NEVER make someone feel like THEY made the wrong decision on their dolls...that's just plain MEAN! Why be unkind or 'elitist' at all? We are all here to explore our OWN journey. It is our OWN. Others will find inspiration in their OWN journey ~ and that will most times mean a different doll. I find that ENRICHING! I don't want carbon-copies of my OWN vision!!! I am more likely to be fascinated by someone else's vision of beauty since it's not my own ~ THAT is the beauty of diversity, isn't it? I have dark hair and eyes ~ and if I see someone with blonde hair and light skin or any variation that is different than mine, my eyes can't stop looking! It's beautiful!
Diversity is the spice of life ~ no matter what else they say. Bring on the variety and forget the elite ideal. (history has proven that THAT doesn't exist)
Just my opinion.

 

Not yet immersed enough in the hobby to have any real experience, but this here makes a LOT of sense to me. Untill I got laid off last month,* I was one of the only people in my social group with a job in their field, with everyone else either having not gone to college, or having been unable to find work relating to their degree. Some, not all, but a fair percentage of them, had a bit of an attitude with me about things, as if they were sure I was judging them for their current financial situation... this sense of "You got things I didn't, so you should give to me so we're even, so you're elitist."

*I'd have an order in by now, I've got the doll picked out and everything, but lets face it, when you're laid off and the primary breadwinner of a household, which I am, it's wiser to hold the doll money in case the rainy day fund runs out... as the backup for the backup, especially in this economy.

8^)