Elitism - How much is perceived?

I only collect Dollfie Dream, and I only plan to collect Dollfie Dream. Sometimes in various doll communities I have felt like Dollfie Dream doesn't count as a "real" BJD because they are not made of resin and have skeletons rather than being strung... Also, sometimes in the Dollfie Dream community I felt out of place because for a long time I did not have a character doll or a limited doll, I only had my custom doll. However I am not sure I would go to the extreme of calling that situation an "elitist" situation.

 

I am so sorry for your feelings of this. As a proud DDdy owner myself (Alna xmas), I'll tell you that I've always thought of them as BJD! They originally were strung and the differences from the resin dolls make them amazing. They have similar aesthetics, but are made of a different material. My DD usually gets ignored by women BJD but paid a lot of attention to by men; they are usually the friendliest and most likely to talk. Women on the other hand just glance at her. I get the feeling of having my vinyl girl snobbed.

Which is irritating, because I cried a couple of tears of joy when I got her. :F I always knew I wanted a DD but when I saw Alna I just fell in love. I had to have her. She my dream Dollfie Dream. My sweet little automaton.

 

I love Christmas Alna! Her white skin is so pretty, she is a lovely doll. I think she looks so unique compared to other DD. Her nose is very prominent and I think that makes her beautiful. I always enjoy seeing pics of Alna, she is very special. ^_^

When I talk to people online about DD, most of the time I don't know their gender so I hardly know if I am talking to females or males about DD usually... However I can kind of understand how women might not like them, because on another thread I read that some people think that DD are aimed for men cuz of their "appearance" or something like that? I didn't remember it word for word.

I just finished paying off my dream doll's layaway, Sasara Kusugawa. I am hoping that she will be here in a day or so. I know that I will probably cry tears of joy when I get her as well! I have been waiting a very long time for her.

Thanks for sharing your experience with other people and DD, I thought I was the only one who received those kinds of feelings.

 

Bewaretheshort1, imho, you should always buy things that you like. I think in the end the only opinions that should be meaningful to you, are yours and your family and friends.

As for the ABJDs, each of the companies/artists that I own have their pros and cons. I love the engineering and the beauty of the Volks. The Old CustomHouse SD dolls are very sleek and just down right gorgeous. I have 2 DOD...one teen and one kid.....I love the color of the resin,the beautiful faceups, and the creative clothing they come with. My Souldolls have the most fantastic faceups, and the clothing is wonderful and creative.

I could go on and on.......I love CastleAnne.......Dollshe drives me nuts, lol. The poor boy is one of the Tensiya, and the body is always doing strange things (I really do need to work on him). I just bought LaTi Red K from a lady on DoA, and he is gorgeous. I can't wait for the Iplehouse that I ordered.

The point is.......all of the different companies have wonderful things to offer, and you should pick what you like.

 

Part of the reason there's so many companies is that people have different tastes.

I personally don't like minifee, delf, or volks bodies minus sd17 which a lot of people have very elite views on xD

I've met owners before who started with all kinds then just found one company they loved the most! There's no problem in disliking a company/loving another it's just when you get overly critical of other people's dolls and are a jerk about it is when it becomes "elitist". I think it's all about the attitude on it. I've met people who only own own company who are nice and ones who were not quite as nice....

 

I think another thing that effects 'Elitism' is the idea that one company has higher 'quality' of dolls vs another. I often have heard that X company has 'Quality' resin vs Y company, and therefore X company is superior to Y company. The problem is that your dealing with Art Pieces where the true value of the items are in the eyes of the beholder. Just because you may prefer or see the resin quality for X as superior doesn't mean it is. I have a doll from a company which people would likely say is poor resin quality, but then you pick up the doll and realize it's sooo light. Which I think makes it superior. Others like shiny resin because their dolls are anime like, or they like the realistic skin resin. Heck there are even people who want/like resin that isn't UV protected. But you'll have people who want to shove it down your throat that Resin has to be X, and because company has resin like X it's superior and therefore company x is superior. And they do this with posing, or eye material, etc... When it comes to art there may be guidelines to what makes something superior, but nothing is set in stone. (How many times at an anime convention have I seen a scribble on a napkin sell for more, then the actual painted art pieces, and all because of people's preference).

 

I don't know about elitism much in the BJD area. I live somewhere where I don't know anyone else who has them. Not saying that they aren't out there...but well.....

I encountered a lot of elitism when I was very active in the 'My Child' doll collecting arena. It was part of the reason I quit the whole thing. In that case, if you had a doll that wasn't a RARE one it wasn't worth dealing with. I liked them all.

In here....not so much. I think because it is hard to be elitist when each company is so different. Their esthetics, their joints, their shape. In a world where the doll is what your imagination made it, how is it possible to be elitist. Then again, there are some who do it. Why? Who knows. Personally, I think a lot of elitism is just people trying to defend ( not the word I am looking for, but am having a brain fart) themselves and their likes/dislikes to other that they are perceiving as being judgemental.

I have come to the conclusion, that these people probably have had something happen in their past that makes them overly sensative to criticism, and they jump down people's throats before it can be done to them, even if the person is not doing it.

Look at Hollywood for an example, or High/Couture Fashion. Sometimes people with perceived superiority, don't have any confidence in their ability to choose and defend something they really like. They have to go with the majority, don't rock the boat, and if you don't agree, you are a rebel.....must not let rebels go un punished.

As you can tell...I have had some of these problems in my past. I hope I have worked through it, but who knows.

I do know....I haven't seen much of elitism here on DoA. On the other hand.....I can tell you this. When I was looking at other forums to join.....most people were like....DoA...it is the best....you should join them.....

 

Lately, mostly outside of DoA, I've been hearing the cries of 'elitist! elitist!' once again in the hobby. I remember when I first joined, the term 'Volks Elitist' still seemed to be a thing in common use, and I'd thought it had left. Judging by some of the stuff I've seen lately, however, it doesn't seem to have gone away--in fact, almost everyone seems to be calling everyone else elitist! Has this undercurrent been running forever? Where did it stem from? And why is it still so pervasive?

The questions I pose now are:
Is the term 'elitist' valid? In what context?
Who can be an elitist and why?
Conversely, who cannot be an elitist?
Does elitism in the context of the doll hobby simply involve what dolls you own, or is it something deeper?

Personally, by this point of seeing the 'elitism! elitist!' cries almost every single day, I've come to the conclusion that the word, in the famous quote, "does not mean what you think it means". Doll fans have lost the original meaning of the term and have begun to apply it to anyone who does not agree with their range of views. Being called an elitist seems to be less of a question of if and rather one of when. When one person can cry that all Bobobie owners are elitist and another cry that all Volks owners are elitist, where does that leave the people who are both BBB and Volks owners? Super-elitists perhaps?

 

You have no idea. Of all elitists, these are the worst ;p.

An elitist in the true meaning of the word, is someone who is looking down on someone else, because he/she does not own the 'correct' brand. They can be demeaning, disrespectful and will make absolutely sure you know you don't have what it takes to be a part of the hobby.

From what I see nowadays, the term "elitist" is most often used by those who are offended with someone who doesn't agree with their opinions on dolls. If someone disagrees and isn't a fan of their favorite company, she most definitely has to be an elitist.
I notice a huge sense of entitlement and an inability to recognize that different people will have different opinions. It has nothing to do with looking down on others, it has to do with preference. But this difference is almost unacceptable for some, because it makes them insecure and so they start accusing people of being an elitist.

I don't know, perhaps it's easier to play the victim, than to put yourself in someone else's shoes.

 

THIS. You've hit the nail right on the head.

 

I like dolls that fit my personal aesthetic sense. I want their face-ups to be beautifully done by skilled artists, and the clothes I make are (IMO!) of a high standard and of the style I want to see on my own dolls. I see no point in owning a $500 doll that is not, in my eyes, as beautiful as I can make it. I also only want to look at dolls (of any brand) that are well presented and aesthetically pleasing. No I don't want to look at your Bobobie doll in a sock with an amateur face-up, because that is not what interests me in this hobby, I wouldn't be inspired by it, or encouraged to improve my own collection.

This statement would probably make me an 'elitist' in a lot of eyes, and yes, that would probably be a valid term. But I'm not going to cease to aspire to a certain aesthetic that pleases me just because a bunch of kids/nutjobs who have fewer skills and less disposable income want to fling names around and throw tantrums.

 

Yes, I believe the term "elitist" is valid in this hobby, particularly when it comes to brands and how much we've spent. Many people tend to forget that at the end of the day and regardless of brand, we all spend hundreds of dollars on plastic dolls (yes, I said it).

I completely agree that some dolls are more skillfully customized than others. But, does that mean people who don't have the resources (i.e. the skills or money) to have an artist faceup or expensive clothing on their dolls shouldn't enjoy their dolls? Does that mean people who do have the resources to customize their dolls to the fullest shouldn't be proud of their dolls? Does that mean someone who has the resources to do this with their dolls but chooses not to is wrong? The answer to all of these questions is: No. We have to realize as a community that everyone will enjoy their dolls differently. We don't have to agree, it would just be nice if we could be respectful (and I think most people are!).

Now, this hasn't been said, but it's been touched on, so I'm going to run with it. I like a long range of dolls from BBB to Soom. I also dislike a fair amount of popular dolls because I don't like their aesthetic (Volks for one). Does that mean I will look down on someone who likes Volks or someone who hates BBB? Nope. I'm not that insecure.

When it comes down to it, I think insecurity is a large part of what makes people perceive others as "elitists." Someone doesn't like what they like, or makes them feel bad they've spent so much on a faceup, or makes them feel bad they don't have the money to spend on their dolls, so that person must be an elitist. The so called "elitist" may not even have intended to make this person feel bad. Sometimes, people are perceived as elitist because of the way they treat other collectors. Not everyone in this hobby is respectful of differences or very eloquent. Some people reply without thinking. They may not mean to come across the way they do. Of course, the "victim" will view these people as elitists.

The actual elitists do exist. These are the people who look down on other collectors for whatever reason and feel that they or their dolls are superior. So, the person with the Soom MD who thinks all BBB collectors only have these dolls because they're cheap and their doll is obviously so much better because it cost more is an elistist if this person has never stopped to think the BBB collector may have those dolls because they enjoy them. I have seen some very poorly-made expensive dolls and some of the "cheaper" dolls have surprised me with their quality, so price is not always indicative of quality. By the same token, there are people who look down on others for spending so much on a doll. Again, these people might be elitists, however I'm going to take this further.

People who look down on others because they have expensive dolls that are skillfully customized and well-dressed aren't elitist. Some of them may be, but I think it's more likely they are jealous. Now before anyone gets upset, let's think about this. It's human nature to want more, and sometimes when people can't have what they want, they become discouraged. It's sometimes easier for some to dislike someone who has what they don't than it is to appreciate and admire what that person has done.

So, elitism exists and it's ugly. I had more to say, and I hoped to be more concise, but I'm on the way to work. Hopefully I didn't become one of those in-eloquent people I mentioned earlier .

 

I think that the elitist thing has a lot to do with aesthetics. I agree with almaxaquotal, one should be able to look at a doll and be inspired by its beauty and the amount of effort and thought that has gone into the process of creating it. Like most things in life, dolls are not created equal.

 

I just throw in this confession (from the bjd-confession tumblr) as what pretty much is an elitist for me.
An arrogant and disgusting brat who thinks that because she/he buys ONLY from Company XY (which doesn't always have to be expensive, but for some that's the most important) she's allowed to be mean to other people and even goes far enough to judge them or call certain brands "crap".

I just imagine how she starts crying and cutting herself when she finds out that something she likes is from a cheap company, immediately feeling bad that she liked something "cheap".
I also don't get how someone just likes something because it's expensive. Not to mention the whole "Asian face up artist" thing, like the asians have some kind of "Awesome face-up gene" in their gene-pool

Uhm, back to topic.
I think that is pretty much what some people think is an elitist.
The problem however is that many people get labeled as one without being one actually.
Owning only Volks or Unoas doesn't make you an elitist, the same like only owning BBBs doesn't make you some poor kid who's unwilling to safe more money or someone who doesn't have any taste.
But we all know that out there we have these elitists who actually think they are like god's present for the doll-hobby.

Nobody should feel ashamed because he likes company XY more than Company ZZ, but that goes both ways.
Doll owners should not feel ashamed because they own cheaper dolls, and the other way round these owners shouldn't call out on people who prefer more expensive companies.
Just because I have more (or less) money does not make me a better collector.



personal opinion time:
I have a few pet peeves myself in the hobby, but mostly it's when people buy dolls and then handle them badly (taking pictures of them next to a pan while you are frying something? Really?) or, and I think that's when my little elitist shows, they DEMAND nice comments for their not so creative work as much as people who deliver amazing work that just blows your mind.
I understand that a lot of people like to think that their doll is the prettiest among them all, but unlike others I'm pretty honest and only write "Wow, that's amazing!" in galleries that REALLY ARE amazing.
For some German guys that's making me an elitist because I'm barely writing comments...but mostly because none of the stuff I see is really, really good.
I set my own standards very high but I don't expect people to follow MY standard.
I only expect them to understand that I just won't stroke their ego with an "Your work is so wonderful!" on the millionth gallery of their dolls thrown on the bed with a nearly destroyed wig and a piece of cloth wrapped around their body...because the owner preferred to buy 15 dolls on layaway instead of buying clothes for the ones who are already there ^^;

 

I just throw in this confession (from the bjd-confession tumblr) as what pretty much is an elitist for me.
An arrogant and disgusting brat who thinks that because she/he buys ONLY from Company XY (which doesn't always have to be expensive, but for some that's the most important) she's allowed to be mean to other people and even goes far enough to judge them or call certain brands "crap".

I just imagine how she starts crying and cutting herself when she finds out that something she likes is from a cheap company, immediately feeling bad that she liked something "cheap".
I also don't get how someone just likes something because it's expensive.
Not to mention the whole "Asian face up artist" thing, like the asians have some kind of "Awesome face-up gene" in their gene-pool

Uhm, back to topic.
I think that is pretty much what some people think is an elitist (no matter what the term REALLY means).
The problem however is that many people get labeled as one without being one actually.
Owning only Volks or Unoas doesn't make you an elitist, the same like only owning BBBs doesn't make you some poor kid who's unwilling to safe more money or someone who doesn't have any taste.
But we all know that out there we have these elitists who actually think they are like god's present for the doll-hobby.

Nobody should feel ashamed because he likes company XY more than Company ZZ, but that goes both ways.
Doll owners should not feel ashamed because they own cheaper dolls, and the other way round these owners shouldn't call out on people who prefer more expensive companies.
Just because I have more (or less) money does not make me a better collector.

personal opinion time:
I have a few pet peeves myself in the hobby, but mostly it's when people buy dolls and then handle them badly (taking pictures of them next to a pan while you are frying something? Really?) or, and I think that's when my little elitist shows, they DEMAND nice comments for their not so creative work as much as people who deliver amazing work that just blows your mind.
I understand that a lot of people like to think that their doll is the prettiest among them all, but unlike others I'm pretty honest and only write "Wow, that's amazing!" in galleries that REALLY ARE amazing.
For some German guys that's making me an elitist because I'm barely writing comments...but mostly because none of the stuff I see is really, really good.
I set my own standards very high but I don't expect people to follow MY standard.
I only expect them to understand that I just won't stroke their ego with an "Your work is so wonderful!" on the millionth gallery of their dolls thrown on the bed with a nearly destroyed wig and a piece of cloth wrapped around their body...because the owner preferred to buy 15 dolls on layaway instead of buying clothes for the ones who are already there ^^;
So I prefer saying nothing and keeping my honest comments to the galleries that touched me in a certain way...and even though I'm not one of the "If you can't say something nice, say nothing" guys, I still know that a lot of guys in the hobby take EVERYTHING personally and that you just CAN'T critize them, not even in a nice way, without making them going mad.

I will close that post with another confession which pretty much sums up my attitude:

 

Leaving aside that hideous confession (whoever wrote that should throw themselves and their dolls down a well): I do this. I once took a picture of my doll next to a pan of boiling-hot melted sugar, for a photostory. I honestly couldn't care less what people think of the way I handle my dolls, and if I'm elitist about anything, I tend to look down on people who handle their dolls with (literally) kid gloves or keep them locked in boxes because they're too frightened of damaging them to even look at them. What on earth is the point of having a doll if you don't play with the thing?
Dolls are tougher than they look, and what's more, they're possessions designed to have fun with. If my idea of fun is another person's idea of "ZOMG there's a teeny chance you'll ruin your doll", well, that's their problem!

 

almaxaquotal has just given us proof that elitists certainly do exist among us. There are polite ones & impolite ones, of course. One would hope that she would keep her opinion to herself at a doll meet where 'inferior' faceups & 'cheap' dolls were on display.

 

@Harlequin-Elle:
But I bet if people asked you "I always thought oil and such is bad for dolls?" you wouldn't tell them "No, that's a lie, it's absolutely okay to do that " and would afterwards sell them the doll in a really bad state without saying anything?

I also do A LOT with my dolls, and I know some things might in the end be not 100% safe for them, but I would tell people, just because it worked out for ME, that what I did is maybe a bit of a no go safety-wise.
And sadly the girl who took the pictures with the frying pan is known that she sells dolls for quite a high price and hides the fact they are damaged, very badly and uneven yellowed or whatever.

(but I was like that as a kid already. Everything I own, except for my iPod, is usually in a very good state and I also keep a lot of stuff in their boxes. Funny, my dolls sit openly on huge table, but mostly because I think "Even though I paid a lot of money for them I STILL want to see them", that doesn't mean however I think it's okay to throw them into salty ocean water.
There's a path between putting your dolls forever in boxes and letting them stay in the sunshine or rest next to a frying pan for hours.)

 

Just because I take risks with my dolls doesn't mean I'm dishonest. If my dolls were damaged and I wanted to sell them (though they're not and I don't) I would of course be upfront about the damage and adjust prices accordingly, as I hope would everyone!

 

That's what I mean
It's not bad to take risks, but it's bad to lie about it or to tell people that it's NOT risky.
But the girl I'm talking about did/does a lot of these things and because she got in trouble for calling the mods whores etc. she got kicked out of our forum...now she's trying to get all the newbies and tells them all sorts of lies ("Of course you can use markers on the face-up, I did and the face-up is still on the doll!") and in the end, when they finally ARE on the forums, the drama starts ^^;

Anyway, that's not the topic of this thread.
Back to topic