Faceup Artistry- what constitutes 'copying'?

Honestly though- that's plagiarism. A tribal design like that can tooootally be patented. It's basically tattoo flash art the way they used it- and if they didn't pay for it it's not theirs to use to make money off of it.

That's just straight up shady, Unidoll.

 

I think both as an artist and as someone who would commission faceups, this sort of statement gives me mixed feelings. On the one hand I agree with it, but on the other hand.. sometimes you see something and it's just *perfect* and while I'd never ever copy directly, I don't think there's anything wrong with being inspired with a particularly beautiful faceup.

 

Sometimes a certain style works really well for a particular character as well. I don't think people should strive to be carbon copies of someone else, but it's normal to be inspired and influenced by other artists and sometimes there's a certain amount of overlap between people that isn't even intentional. I'm all for creativity and individuality, but sometimes the idea gets carried to an unrealistic point.

 

As a faceup artist, I make the "I will not copy others blah blah blah" statement for a few reasons. First, I have my own style and I don't want to be a backup because someone can't afford or can't get onto another artist's commission list. I think it's devaluing to both artists - it makes the artist feel like second-best and it sort of says that the original artist is easily replaceable. Second, there is a lot of design that goes into a faceup, even a natural one. Eyebrow shape, angle, thickness, brushstroke direction... lip lines or no, color style... there's a lot of artistry to it! If someone else took the time to map out a color scheme and a particular expression, I don't feel right copying it. And last, I don't want people complaining because I can't paint like Violet Poem.

I like when people give references for a mood, or an aspect of a faceup... but asking to replicate a whole faceup makes me uncomfortable.

I know some people are very protective of their doll's "look"... and feel like having an original, unique creation is important to their bond with their doll. If someone asked me to copy a faceup or mod I did on another person's doll, I would only consider it if they asked permission from the other person. Otherwise it's a no-go.

I don't know where I'd say I felt "copied." I have tutorials up on YouTube, so I can't really complain if people use similar techniques to mine! I guess I'd only really feel copied if it seemed like someone had directly copied a specific faceup in terms of expression, color, eyebrow shape and thickness, etc... it would have to be pretty obvious!

 

I actually ask people to provide pictures of faceups with elements that they like, such as eyebrow shape or style, etc... because I find that often, when people describe something only with words, like eyebrows, and say something like "I want a devious character who looks slightly worried but only in a way that means she really wants to atone for her wrongs while not really regreting her actions"... well... chances are I'm going to interpret that totally different than the person visualizing it XD

Asking for photo references on shape and style doesn't mean I'm copying, it means I'm asking them to be visually specific (not to mention, people usually send me one photo for shape, and a different photo for style... (and by style, I mean solid eyebrow/individual hair eyebrow/pastel and hair/blah blah... not someone's specific style))

 

Though I am by no means a professional face-up artist, I have done a few commissions before. If someone gave me a single photo of another person's doll and said "I want a faceup just like this one", I would decline. First, because as Armeleia said, it's kind of an insult to both artists. Secondly, because I'm just plain not that good. I have my own style and all my faceups inevitably show part of that style. I'm not as precise or as clean as many of the better faceup artists out there, so you're not going to get a product that looks like a professional airbrushed faceup from me. And I'd rather not leave customers with a product they won't like.

However, I do encourage people to show me photos of faceups with the eyebrow shape they like, or a similar lip color. It's more of a way to get a general impression of what they're looking for, rather than an exact template I'm trying to replicate.

There is a difference between saying "I want my doll to look exactly like this other doll", versus saying "I like the eyebrow shape of this doll, but the eyebrow color on that one. And the lip shape on this other doll, but the soft pink lip color of yet another doll."

I think there is a very distinct line between imitating another doll's faceup completely and taking influence from various sources to create something new. Most faceup artists frown upon the first, but the latter is generally accepted.

 

i completely agree with what TheFontBandit said. i have never done commssions for anyone because i don't think that i am good enough. i also wouldn't have the time to dedicate to someone else's dolls. but i think that i would also have to decline if someone asked me to copy another doll's faceup. i don't think that the first thought to come to my mind would be that it was an insult to the artist who did it. but i would feel bad for the doll and the owner. i think that the reason why some artists become upset when they think that someone has copied their doll's faceup is because dolls are very personal. we all take the time to think about what it is that we are doing, and we are hoping that the faceup will be perfect so that it can represent a character or someone speacial.

i know that i am not a professional at all but i do know that i work very hard on my dolls so that they look like the characters that they are meant to represent. i would definitly feel badly if someone copied them exactly.

 

umm, i'm sorry i misunderstood but i guess i am still not sure. i think i and TheFontBandit both meant to say that we wouldn't mind using photos as a reference, but i know i was just specifying that i would feel uncomfortable about doing a faceup for someone if they speciffically wanted it to look like someone else's. thats all i meant ^_^;;.

 

I would never want to be accused of copying so when I'm doing faceups I generally don't use other dolls for references. I use pictures of actual people instead. On my last faceup which was for my Unoa L-bi, I only used pictures of Donghae from Super Junior (iz a shameless fangirl) and no doll photos. Even with no intentions of copying, it's still very easy to absorb influences and ideas just from a glance at a photo of someone else's faceup.

When I DO use doll photos for references, I crop them up on photoshop so I can only see what I particularly want (eyerbows, lashes, lips, etc.) I cut everything else out so that I won't be influenced by just one doll. That way I can get the look I want without really "copying" the faceup as a whole.

On the lines of commissions...it's difficult where to draw the line. Most people want to give reference photos just to make sure they get what they want. You want to give the customer what they want and make them happy, but at the same time, you have to make sure you aren't just trying to replicate someone else's work. It's really a personal moral decision IMO. How much are you willing to copy to make the sale?

But I have seen shameless copies before, even recently here on DOA. SHAMELESS copies. I don't think it's my place to call these people out in public or even at all. They know what they did but then again, my anger doesn't mean a thing to them. Basically, if it's a true "copy," it's as plain as the nose on your face and everyone will see it. There's no hiding it and calling it out really isn't going to change a thing. I wouldn't call anyone out unless they copied my work and even then, I would do it in private over PMs.

Recently I did see a copy that really upset me a bit because the person was copying a very unique character that I and many others adore. No one has called the person out and I have no intention to do so, but my opinion of that person is forever tarnished. I have little respect for them but that doesn't mean I have to be rude to them.

I don't think copying is okay but I don't think they should be called out with a "OMG COPIER!! *Points finger!!* SHUNNNNNN-AH!" either. Basically I think they should just be left to fester knowing what they did.

 

I do all my own faceups, and have done many for friends and associates, as well as other modding, clothing production, etc. I do not copy. My own dolls are unique, and while another doll with a purple faceup would not offend me, nor would a Hound elf, a hound elf with a purple faceup and white hair would very likely bother me. Like many doll owners my doll is my character, however, I also know a lot of owners have dolls based on the work of others eg. animae characters. I would recreate their interpretation from the inspiration of that character, however I would NOT recreate it if they had seen another owner's doll, bought the same sculpt (or similar) and said "paint it to look like her Renji, or his Vampire Hunter D". On the same lines if a comission comes to me, and shows me a lot of photos of dolls, and says "I love these eyes, and this mouth, and this shading, can you make it to look like those?" well...yes, I can, but not by copying, as an artist it is my job to find out what it is about those particular doll's faceups that they love, not just the specific makeup, but the WHY of it, then I willbe able to answer them and say "I don't copy, but I see what it is you want, so I will do a special faceup for your doll using the inspiration you gave me, and we can work on it together until it is right" That way they will get a doll that is theirs, perfectly, and still has the elements they loved in other faceups without copying. I believe many owners do this kind of thing because they feel unable to express in words what they see in their mind, they feel it is easier to show guidelines.

I have done this myself, though most would never know it. My Corpselight was inspired by Christy's Feyd, who I adore, the two dolls are hounds, but look nothing alike, Corpse was purchased before I ever saw Feyd, however when I did his original faceup I used Feyd as a reference, not to copy, but to achieve that quiet smoulder he has...not claiming in the least that I achieved what Feyd manages however, he is unique and beautiful, as my Corpse is to me, though I am certain many many others would disagree.

There are many times I see a faceup and think "that is interesting, I must remember that technique/shading/concept" and will use them to inspire my own work, while not at all copying.

So to sum this painfully long answer, I believe copying is wrong if you do not have permission, are doing it to have what someone else has, or are doing it for a "quick fix" however being inspired by other artists is not in the least wrong, we are all inspired by something, even if that is not apparent in our own work, and as has been so eloquently stated requesting a copy, or copying is a devaluation of both artists. However I DO need to know what inspires my clients, be it other dolls or not, I won't copy, but it may help me to bring fruition to their original vision.

 

Ehh, it would never stand up in court. That particular tattooing is also extremely similar to the exact eyeliner-swirls-and-doodads that my friend Margo used to paint all over her face, back in the mid-90s when we used to do the goth clubs 3 nights a week. But I wouldn't bother either Illness Illusion nor Margo by suggesting that one had ever heard of the other, let alone copied it.

As has been said, there's nothing truly unique in the universe anymore. Even snowflakes are recycled.

 

Being an occasional artist, I can understand why people would be upset about having face up's (their works of art) copied. While attending classes there was a rule about changing 9 things so that it was changed enough to be your own work. I'm not saying that's what should be the rule, but it's something to keep in mind. With saying this, I can also understand a new face up artist (or even an experienced one) copying aspects of another artists work. I've done it and I've even commissioned another artist to copy (like eyeslashes, eyebrows, lips, color, etc). However, I also believe that the intent of the artist or requestor is also very important. IMO you can do the same faceup on the same doll, but come up with a different attitude for him/her and have it not be copying because the intent was not to have the same doll. There are people who copy everything about a doll and wish it to be the same as another person's. That I feel is copying and should not be allowed.

 

Legally speaking its not copying unless the copy is more that 70% the same (american law about artwork). So here is the thing it would have to be , the same doll , the same colors , same size same .. well a lot of things far too many variables exist with the dolls. So the way I see it it is extremely hard to copy a face up unless said work is very , very original (ex. specific symbols and such).

 

I'm a noob really, but I've see a few faceups that I honestly loved! I decided that I would try painting my boys to look a bit like this or that. I never knew it was wrong! I'd never be able to copy any of the ones I liked detail for detail (and I really wouldn't want to) but I'd seen say, a Lati boy with a goth faceup and thought, "that really suits him! I'd love to do mine with a goth faceup too." That kind of thing. I really don't think anyone would be able to copy something as particular as a faceup, and I don't think it's something that warrants a lot of worry in my book- I was planning to try and get good enough at faceups to do comissions, and the way I was going to do it was by posting a bunch of pictures of my boy's faceups and basically giving people a choice of "this one, this one or this one.." >,<

So this is my question: Is it wrong to replicate my own faceups on different dolls? Because I really don't think they'd look the same as mine anyway (just because it'd still be hard to copy- even though it's my own work!)

 

I've never done my own face up, and at the moment, I'm in the market looking for a face up. Honestly, I really think this is a bit of up/down subject. I'd like to know where all the artists got their inspiration from. Unless, you look exactly like your doll, and ladies--I hardly think you're male then, have seen and therefore, have you copied all the women of the world? Have you seen an elf before? There is not one artist in all of dollie world that is original, I don't care flame me, whatever. But it's true, so at least hear me out.

Make up is nothing essentially new. It was not started by this generation, nor by the artists of BJD dolls. Our great grandmothers, great-great grandmothers, and so on and so forth have worn make up. If we want to be technical cave women may have even wore make up. The point is nobody is original, because the idea was all planted into our mind by something. You can not tell me that your face up is original, because it came from your head. Okay, so what?

It came from your head, and the idea came from a dream, which came from reality, which came from something you saw (maybe, it was just a flash), but you saw it and that's how it was developed. People that is how photographic memory works! Yenna has beautiful full body blush, freckles. I'm absolutely in love with it, but due to medicinal reasons I'd never attempt it on my doll. Shaky hands and other crap, I'd never try it. Yenna doesn't do international shipping (if she does, and I read wrong--send me link! XD) so, I'll be asking someone who does for something similar.

I'd never ask someone to directly copy another person's work, but c'mon can we all agree it didn't really start as an original idea? Yes, fantasy is the most original I've ever seen. That I can admit is probably entirely original! It's maybe made up of scraps of things seen, but all in all it's mostly original. But the every day face up, can't we all agree it begun.... somewhere, and not in our "original" mind?

Also, I'd like to point out that everyone has a different product. Yes, I would never take that away from anyone. But using the word original is the wrong word. Unique, different, mine all those words I could understand but definitely not original. I've seen a ton of face ups, and they're all beautiful, but I've also seen the exact same make up splashed all over the world. I'm giving the make up artists credit, because I doubt they stole from the doll world.

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I would like to add though, that I sincerely envy anyone who has the talent for doing face-ups and full body blushes. I do not and never would take that away from them. Sdink (Cheryl) is simply amazing, and I love the work the done. I'd never say, anyone's work wasn't good because I don't think all work isn't original, but I do think people who can do face-ups is... startling, stunning, and... mesmerizing.

 

If you look only at the surface, then sure, nothing will appear to be original. However, if one does more than glance, and studies the details, the subtleties...I think you'll find the opposite is far more true.

 

I can agree with that ChristianasDream, that the details, subtleties, and an artists hand are their own original work. Yet, I meant the original "idea" is less "original" then we let ourselves believe. x)