Fighting that Doll stereotype

That description right there was my mother. Complete with huge porcelain doll collection AND bedazzled sweatshirts worn over spandex biker shorts.

Of course, she also collected NC17 yaoi doujinshi and liked to hunt and skin things in her spare time. She totally would have flipped over BJDs had she ever seen them.

 

JennyNemesis... I lol'd SO hard.

As for me, though? Teen-aged. Mostly black wardrobe. Black Megu hair. Pale skin. Heavy makeup. An abundance of The Sisters of Mercy on my ipod. I'm in my school's art club and I also own a cat.

I wasn't aware that this was supposedly the "stereotype" that doll owners reportedly conform to... Most doll owners I know just dress how they like, "normal" or otherwise!

People aren't really surprised to learn about my doll-collecting habits, I guess. I mean, I'm already involved in a lot of things a normal person wouldn't even be interested in looking into, like sewing, sport fencing, writing... The reaction is pretty much, "Oh, so she likes dolls, too? Okay. Must be a goth thing."

No idea where I'm going with this post. I'm tired. XDD;

 

I think most(dare I say all)hobbies, particular fields of interest, and apperances, come with stereotypes why would doll keeping not come with them-people who play video games alot are "geeks" without a real social life, people who ride a motercycle are rough, have beards(if male), and wear much leather, you may want to stay away from them ..kids who do very well in school are more interested in science then socializing, pretty blondes in pink are dumb, goths are vampires (are wiccan to more open minded individuals) ..of course I think all of that is stupid but that is how many think. I don't think someone should become angry. Why does it matter so much what others think? I think many are guilty of using a stereotype for someone/thing they do not understand.

People want to explain something they don't understand so they form a stereotype based on what little knowledge they have of the subject or a related subject.

btw- I really don't see how this community seems "gothic"

(I am sorry, I really did not see how many pages this was- I think my reply was better suited for an earlier post)

 

It's not. It's just the author of the thread thinking, "Ewwww, I don't want to be seen as one of those weird goth people!"

And not caring that they may be potentially offending those of us that are goths.

 

Really? I didn't see that at all

Well, I guess I don't fit the stereotype at all, accept for the liking anime part lol I am African American, and when people see me, this obviously isn't the first thing that comes to their mind, due to other stereotypes Though people think I'm half asian from time to time

But I also think that there are stereotypes affixed to everything, like someone above said, which is unfortunate, but that's why I like to educate people about these dolls. Yeah, some owners are gothic, lolita, or whatever, and that's fine, but not everyone is^^. There is such a wide range of people ineterested in these dolls, which is another reason why they are so much fun

 

Then maybe you should read the first post again.

Because there's no other reason to whine about people thinking you're 'gothic' than if you obviously have an issue with those types of people and agree with the stereotype that that mainstream sees them in.

If they didn't have a problems with goths, they wouldn't have included them with the other 'stigmas' that they were talking about.

In the 10 years since I first saw an SD I have seen very few owners that are 'gothic'. It's such a minority even in this community that it's laughable to think it's the stereotypical 'dollfie owner' in the eyes of the mainstream.



How many people would be offended if instead of goths it said 'preps' or 'yaoi fangirl'?

You should never begin a thread to complain about how others see you as (insert least favorite minority). People should be above that in this day and age.

 

Actually since I first ran into ABJDs at anime conventions I tend to associate them with 'yaoi fangirls'. And yep I'm one of those too. Though I don't think I fit quite as many points of that stereotype as I do the doll owner stereotype.

Morgan

 

In a manner, yes this is the basis though I don't know that it has to be meant in an offense way. I wouldn't want someone to think I'm something I'm not even if that something is positive. I sort of prefer to be me, with all my own warts.

 

It is the way it was said that is offensive.

We are a small enough community without people trying to 'fight' perceived stereotypes. We love our dollies so what does it matter if people who know nothing about them see us one way or another?

 

I agree with this

 

yeah.... I did not really feel offended (I guess I'm not easily offended though) and I doubt the person really put much thought into it.. I was, however amused at what the original poster(and many ppl)must view as gothic so I added that, hehe

If anything, people here might seem to enjoy more that the average group gothic lolita, really is not the same as UK/USA/western goth.
And that is likely due to the fact that these dolls, after all, started in the orient where goth loli started and is at its most popular(I think it is anyway, lol).
I don't think I see that many goth loli dolls when I look through the galleries however

 

I agree to a point- I would rather ppl not call me things I am not but I would not worry about it the way it seems the original poster worries about the "gothic" stereotype,

I don't think anyone should feel offended about any of this. If it really bothers a person that they are being stereotyped instead of complaining and whining why not try to educate people about the truth and purhaps think hard, have I ever stereotyped someone I do not understand.
Just think of a list of ppl of different religions, ethnic groups, hobbies, subcultures, races, ages, careers, political parties, etc.
If one comes up with a certain image of a person when thinking on some of those things they should try to understand why they did and, just maybe, they can understand stereotypes, what is wrong with them, and the ppl who use them a bit better and not feel so upset when they are stereotyped

I do think it would be nice if the people who replied after Wolfmammy would read the original post with goth/gothic replaced with something that refers to them and see if it becomes offensive, lol

 

I don't even like it when people think I'm a math genius because I am Asian, even if it is a "positive stereotype" that doesn't mean it is true or that it isn't annoying to get lumped in!

And not everyone encounters people who blurt the same thing. People I encountered in high school, more people blurted that the dolls were Goth-y or creepy. In college, most people's knee-jerk reaction is that they're too expensive and that I am borderline insane.

And I wouldn't be offended if they said 'preps' or 'yaoi fangirl' or 'anime fan' or whatever instead. It's not wrong to be annoyed at getting called something you're not.

 

I tried this and replaced it with "Yaoi Fangirl", since that's another stereotype affixed to BJD's, and one that I fit into

I still don't see where it is offensive, (then again, I'm not easily offended ). But I can see how it came off that way, but I think the author was more so trying to express a concern about one of the sterotypes that are associated with BJD's, not diliberately trying to offend people who might be Gothic.

 

(by the way, I mean no offense by this post. I'm just stating my thoughts.)
It's funny. I'm writing my speech in Academic Decathlon on the life of a person who decides to deviate from the norm. (that being...me.) Yes, there is a reference to ABJDs in there. But I realized I'm not exactly in any perticular stereotype. I am...who I am.
It's not just because I'm an artist, all I draw is anime.
It's not just because I'm a female Boy Scout that I'm a sick feminist or a lesbian.
It's not just because I'm good in school, I get good grades and am more interested in books than a socail life.
It's not just because I'm religious, I'm a perfect person.
It's not just because I wear black all the time, I'm a dark possessed freak who hates everyone.
It's not just because I collect dolls, I'm a person trapped in my childhood (bless the poor dear's soul) or a dark creepy individual.
I, Ali, am...Ali. And the stereotypes definitely are difficult sometimes.
I notice the stereotypes running rampant...and I honestly pray that people's first experience with BJDs is a positive one, with people who can explain it.
So I guess what I'm trying to say is...the way we can fight off this stereotype is to put the example of someone who isn't part of this stereotype.

 

I envy you if your good at math.
Anyway yes, even a "good" stereotype is wrong. With the "Asians are smart" it has a huge backlash when group work has to be done. Everyone wants to join up with the Asian kid.
I know how this feels since it has happened to me too.

 

I liked what Tigerbaby said a while back about taking people's reactions to BJDs as a litmus test. It's not their judgement of me that I pay attention to - it's the fact that if they don't have a playful enough mind to appreciate the fun and fantasy, maybe they aren't people I want to hang around with. Or, more realistically, people who don't immediately light up when they see my dolls and displays are just not the ones I will continue to talk about it with. I've been quite amused at how many friends have gotten engaged in one or another aspect of my new interest - one was interested in scouring salvage yards for making scenarios, one quickly developed an eye for 1:3 objects, one quietly let me know that he really likes sewing small things. But these are people I've chosen to be with over the years. They enjoy my playful side already.

As to strangers' reactions, as many posters have said: who cares? If you're out doing a photo shoot in public, and people do more than look on curiously, i.e. they actually make a comment, just tell them it's a photoshoot for an magazine or for the internet. Actually someone asked me that once when I was photographing Barbies on horses in a local park - they came up with the explanation themselves rather than be bothered by something a bit out of the ordinary.

But the subject that really interests me here is the Uncanny Valley.

I think it goes even deeper. People may be weirded out by something that's almost real but not quite, but dolls have been around for millennia, and their uncanniness is not necessarily connected to their degree of realism. Little clay, stone and wood figurines have been found at all sorts of archeological sites. Sometimes they are clearly playthings - I've seen little articulated clay dollies (from Pompeii, I think). But the physical distinction between that plaything and a votive figurine of a goddess is pretty small. One was intended for play, and the other as an offering to a deity. Adults have been infusing power and meaning into small replicas of ourselves for a long time.

Chucky and the Dollmaster are iterations of something much older than Hollywood. Voodoo dolls have also been presented by Hollywood as something sinister (and have contributed to terribly prejudiced misconceptions about the religions brought to the New World from West Africa). But these sinister dolls work because people have some visceral reaction to the idea that these inanimate objects have been made animate. And isn't that what we are doing with our dolls? Not as literally, of course, but we do give them "life." We give them names, stories, a place to live. There is no limit to the imagination - they can be goth, Lolita, jocks, or circus performers.

By carrying around these little physical reflections of our imagination, we may be weirding some people out. I admit that it feels like exposing my inner world to people who don't really have a right to see it - and I'm not much of an exhibitionist. But is it that different from showing one's paintings or writing to a message board?

People who think BJD collectors are all one thing or another - goths, shut-ins, nerds - are like stereotypers everwhere: their view is too narrow and limited to be taken seriously.

 

I understand why it is offensive. It leaves you with the question, "And what's so bad with being a goth?" I just think that it's a form of latent prejudice and was not the actual intent. I also think that pointing out how it can be offensive is a helpful thing.

That I think it an extremely important question for all people. And the answer is always yes. If you don't think it is, then you're not admitting things to yourself. It happens partially because of the fact that people utilize catergorization as a tool in processing information. But I don't think that because you might operate using a stereotype on occasion that it doesn't mean you can't strive to be concious and work towards reducing them. I also think you shouldn't spend that might time paying attention to what others think of you ^^;

Agreed.

I agree that using a person's reactions to your 'unusual' interests can be a helpful barometer in finding people you could really mesh with.

 

[QUOTEThat I think it an extremely important question for all people. And the answer is always yes. If you don't think it is, then you're not admitting things to yourself. It happens partially because of the fact that people utilize catergorization as a tool in processing information. But I don't think that because you might operate using a stereotype on occasion that it doesn't mean you can't strive to be concious and work towards reducing them. I also think you shouldn't spend that might time paying attention to what others think of you ^^;QUOTE]

No, I did not mean that just because one thinks in stereotypes occasionally means they can not ever try to reduce them. I quite simply meant people should not get so upset at others for doing something which they themselves are likely guilty- a person should try to improve themselves too.. not just fuss at what others do..

Indeed, ppl should not pay too much attention to what others think-

..this entire thread is based on worrying about what others think however

 

Well, goody for you.. like I said.. I did not feel offended nor do I think that the poster thought "ooo let me offend those freakish goths!" (I hope no one thinks that) but I thought ppl should try to understand why Wolfmammy seemed to be offended