Fighting that Doll stereotype

Er...you don't have to be "latently" prejudiced against something to be annoyed by someone calling you that when you're distinctly not.

There are two other factors that can annoy people. The first is just that (almost) nobody likes being labelled as something they're not. I like the goth fashion, and I like goth people. But it would bug me if someone called me goth just because I own dolls, because I'm so not. It's not that there's anything wrong with being a goth, it's just that it irks me when people blatantly refuse to actually see ME, choosing instead to see a stereotype--and not even the correct one!

The other factor is that sometimes the named stereotype is being used as an insult by the applier. I'm pretty sure this is a big part of how the term "scene" originated--people got sick of being called "emo" and having it meant as an insult, so they started using a different, non-insulting term to describe aspects of the style and, er, scene they were into. If someone is using the term "goth" like an insult, and the OP has to listen to it, she's going to feel uncomfortable when that label is applied to her...regardless of her feelings about people who actually consider themselves goths.


In terms of how to fight the stereotype...remember to choose your audience, your timing, and your style. Many people who see a stereotype instead of the real person can be encouraged to move beyond that, especially if you're not too pissy about it--I wouldn't bother with the average joe on the street, but when it comes to people like co-workers and classmates, just a bit of encouraging them to see YOU and not their idea of what someone with a doll should be could help.

And the other thing is to, er, be the change you want to see in the world. Someone posted in this thread a while ago about how D&D used to be a really, really freaky hobby...now it's geeky, and has all the attendant stereotypes, but it's no longer quite the "basement satanists?!?" it used to be. If you want to show the world that all types of people own dolls, get out there and own your dolls where the world can see you! Don't shove them in people's faces, but don't be too afraid of the stereotypes to let people know. And don't feel you have to make yourself more like a stereotype just because that's what people expect, even if it's a stereotype of something you're into (not all anime fangirls squee, you know).

 

I'm gonna have to disagree here with your interpretation of these videos. I wouldn't event catch the ABJD reference if I was watching those videos in other circumstances. Dolls are at their essence a child's toy, it is obvious that they would be associeted with Lolita, or child-like behaviors.
I think what creeps out most poeple about ABJD is their price. No matter what is your passion, if you are ready to spend thousands of dollars on something, to the eyes of others, useless, then you are a creepy person.
A lot of people are also bothered by the human like appearence of ABJD's, like they are replacement to socially unadapted persons.
I personnally think it only gives a start for good conversations! If you have a problem with being judged, it's probably not only over your dolls... You should assume and be proud of your hobby! Don't let anyone tell you what you should or should not like, because you don't like one aspect of it. Take what you like and leave what you don't want!

 

You misunderstand me. I meant that the originator of the thread was being implicitly (latently) prejudice as opposed to actively. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with being annoyed, even if the stereotype doesn’t apply to you.

 

Oh my goodness! I never would have said anything(it was not even meant seriously.. i was being kinda sardonic because I think I know why it was said)if I had known people would change the subject of the thread

 

and my point is that there's a difference between being prejudiced and being offended or hurt.

 

I disagree with this statement because i don't stereotype people, i see people for who they are as individuals. There is a prolific quote which i believe to be quite relevant and even though i am not a believer of the christian faith (No offense intended here) I still belief it holds true in my own life. "Judge not lest ye be judged" also known as "Do not judge, or you too will be judged." For myself personally, just because i do not stereotype people does not mean i am not admitting things to myself. It just means that i have reached a place in myself where after having numerous experiences of being judged and unfairly stereotyped, I do not wish to do to others what i do not want to have done on to me. I guess this also fits into the whole ideal of treating people they way you'd like to be treated. Anyway just thought i'd share my thoughts and hope that no one was offended by some of my earlier comments as no offense was intended.

 

If I were prejudiced against gay people and someone told me they thought I were gay, I would be offended.

Since I'm not prejudiced against gays, it doesn't offend me if someone thinks that I am.

My point is that if someone isn't prejudiced, then it wouldn't bother them if someone saw them one way or another.

 

So, er, that one time when my boyfriend filled out a "how well do you know your S.O. quiz" and said that my eyes were "brown" when in fact they're distinctly on the "gray-blue" axis, and it really bothered me a lot, that means I'm latently prejudiced towards people with brown eyes? That must be why I date so few of them! Nothing at all to do with being upset that someone picked the most likely, in his mind, choice instead of actually paying attention to the real me.
[/sarcasm]

Maybe it doesn't bother you if people label you with things that you think are positive, even if they don't apply to you, and maybe you are only bothered by being called things that you dislike...but that's not true for everyone.

So let's not go crying "prejudice!" and "I'm offended!" when there may be no reason--there's enough clear-cut times for that as it is.

 

...aaaaand let's get back to talking about dolls somewhere in this thread, shall we?

The first time I ever saw a bjd was at an anime convention, and the only people who had them were teenaged females dressed in the gothic lolita style. I didn't see anyone else carrying the dolls, so I assumed the dolls were unique to the gothic lolita culture. It wasn't until I asked for a closer look at a doll that her owner explained bjds were a hobby in themselves, not all owners were GLs, etc.

Which goes to show one should never make assumptions about anyone (or anything), especially at an anime convention. To think I would have missed out on this wonderful hobby! ^_^

 

I agree with this, but at the same time, I like to be truthful. If I am called something I'm not, I like to correct the person who made the assumption, not in an angry way, but out of a feeling of not wanting to misrepresent someone else's group/culture through my actions.

Er. No. It just means you were understandably annoyed that your partner couldn't remember what colour eyes you have. That's something to take up with him.

Back to dolls...the first dolls I really saw were in photographs and were either Lolita and actually carried around, or Emo and had myspace-style portraits and lip rings. I originally thought the same as Weirdessmagnet, that the dolls were part of Lolita culture, but I was confused a bit when I saw the Emo dolls

I wasn't put off or turned on to the dolls by whatever they were wearing, although I love Lolita fashion! It was just based on my experience of the dolls that I thought only Lolitas and Emos had them.

 

I must concur with you all ^-^
Who cares what others think?
To be honest I'm past caring what they think...
I'm 15, and i've told a few of my friends on my plans to buy a BJD
They were more interested than shock/horrified
They even want to see her when i get her ^-^
I even interested one of my friends into considering buying one
You would be suprised how many people find them fasinating...

 

Wow-- the stereotype you see really seems to depend on WHEN you got into dolls.

They weren't a teenaged loligoth myspace fad when I bought my first dolls just over 3 yrs ago; so I didn't think twice about any stereotype-association. At the time, you'd maybe see 2 dolls at any anime convention. And in fact, since all I had eyes for were the Volks Tokyo Boys in their tough clothing, I had originally, happily, associated BJDs with the opposite scene of lolita-girls (i.e. "Hey wow, finally, a doll scene without foofy dresses!"). =D

When my friends first said "I never pegged you for a doll-person", they were referring to that other, more traditional "Teddybear-Sweatshirt-Lady-with-clever-wooden-signs-and-potpourri" stereotype.... Being close to my age, these folks would never have thought to associate dolls with teen otaku chicks instead of the classic style ol' Crazy Doll Ladies. I suppose if I hung out with twentysomethings, instead, they'd probably associate my dolls with the Shopping-Mall Loligoth stereotype after all.

 

Seeing as the question is how to fight the doll stereotype, I'll put this one forward:
A frequent poster on another board has been using her dolls in displays to help fundraise and promote awareness for her local Cancer Society. In fact, I think she and her dolls are attending a luncheon at their governor's mansion today as a result of their work for this excellent cause.

Another person I know takes her dolls to visit seniors at a care home near where she lives - this works particulalry well as one of her customized 1/6s is a - well, a lady of extensive experience (I can't believe I am intimidated to call a doll a 'senior citizen', lol! but...she'd have a Tibbyhed on platter, she would!)

Simple, unselfish actions like these kinda take those ridiculous stereotypes and shoves them where Uncle Metro's cow kicked the milk pail, eh?

 

I've seen this stereotype a lot. It was one of the things that kept me from getting into dolls for a while, actually. I thought that they were kinda creepy, what with their always sitting in a little circle, always ignoring the rest of the world around them [at cons anyway]. I knew that it was immature to judge someone so quickly, and I knew it wasn't for me to judge what kind of people they are to begin with.

I have been interested in abjd for a long long time now, and the only thing keeping me away now, is the price. But, once I can make save and scrounge up enough money, there won't be anything keeping me back anymore.

Maybe my views were influenced by the first person I met who had abjd's. This guy who wasn't a prince charming, wasn't really well kept, and was a bit elitist. Just rubbed me the wrong way, yknow?

Then I went to a panel run by the dollie vendors at AFO, and my entire view on dolls and the people who owned them changed almost completely.
The ladies there were so nice and helpful, and sweet, and they weren't the creepy old-white-lady type either. (I've seen that around a lot too)
They seemed to make owning an asian ball-jointed doll almost an art. Not to mention, it was a face-up panel, so that IS pretty much an art.

They're overall kindness and helpfulness, made me think different about abjd owners.

And to those who are worried about the current stereotype:

Don't. If you know you aren't what they think of you, then what do you have to worry about? Prove to them that you are different. And that's as simple as being yourself.
You are you...period.

 

Its mostly because the majority of people getting exposure as BJD collectors ARE kind of creepy. it's really up to the individual to break the stereotype.

 

I don't know why, but that really made me laugh.

 

In general males who are into dolls are perceived as complete weirdos, even by other doll owners; either theyre seen as some sort of Lolita chasing creep or some really camp gay guy. But oddly enough the guys I have met are neither of those stereotypes. Mainly because they have other things more interesting about them than just dolls. Dolls are only a small part of peoples lives. It took me some time to get round to telling friends of mine I was into dolls, as we had much more to talk about before I said, 'Oh, have I ever told you about the dolls I have??' and by then Im not seen as weird, because they know me very well.
However, when I was 15 years younger and a total goth I might have fitted into this 'weirdo with a doll' stererotype. This was around the time of grunge, Daisy Chainsaw, Babes In Toyland, Nirvana etc, who had dolls in their videos or artwork etc. Kids who were into those bands were seen as weird, they were into dolls, so the dolls and weirdos thing went together.

 

Creepy is largely in the eye of the beholder Most of the people I meet in everyday life have no idea what a bjd even is, and are more likely to attach a generic crazy doll lady label to the hobby than anything else, since they don't know the difference between a bjd and any other kind of doll. It can be a little different when you go somewhere (like an anime con) where there are more people that are aware that they exist, but that's not really a large segment of society, when it comes down to it (and don't get me wrong, I think cosplay is neat, but if you're dressed in some kind of funky costume, calling doll people weird or creepy is a serious case of the pot calling the kettle black).

In general:

A lot of people will tend to think it's weird that people will spend a lot on a doll--that goes for any doll, not just bjds. They don't get the idea of dolls as art pieces, as muses or as collectors items--they can't get past the more familiar idea of dolls as children's toys.

Some people think abjds are creepy, because they find dolls in general unsettling, and bjds have more life to them then what you see in a toy aisle in Walmart.

Some folks are insecure, immature, or both and like to deride other people for their hobbies.

These aren't things that we'll ever be able to completely get away from, but it shouldn't affect someone's enjoyment of the hobby. Anyone who is really into a hobby can easily be considered weird by non-hobbyists. I don't think it's because one hobby at it's core weirder than another, but that people don't like to take the time to understand what they aren't themselves particularly interested in. I would rather be 'weird' and having fun than 'normal' and bored out of my skull anyway.

 

haha, now I'm listening Walking on Air everytime that I open my iPod xD I really love this song!

 

Is it because the people getting exposure are creepy... or is it because the people interviewing them in the media can't wrap their brains around the fact that grown people playing with dolls just *MIGHT* be entirely mentally balanced?

I've listened to and read almost everything about BJDs that I can find that's been written or spoken or translated into English, and I find that the vast majority of the time, people coming in to do interviews from outside of the hobby SEEK OUT statements, instances and stereotypes that are "hard for the general public to grasp," to exploit to make us look kind of creepy.

I don't think it's that the majority of people getting exposure ARE creepy, I think it's that the media NEEDS them to be creepy/deranged/insane, so that they can still look "sane" to the general public.

And taco, AMEN to your statement about cosplayers. I LOVE cosplay, I love watching the people who have gone through all of that excellent effort to put together what, most of the time, is generally a work of walking art, get to show off what they've done... but you would think that someone else with a hobby that also gets knocked as much as it's celebrated would have a little bit more compassion... and yet, if you take your dolls to anime conventions, you still get the girl walking by as the half-demon boy with puppy ears and a tail telling you how weird and creepy your dolls are. It's definitely a moment... and it really gives you an excellent idea of how hard fighting a stereotype might be, when someone else with a hobby that is also stereotyped widely, instantly feels the need to put yours down.