Fighting that Doll stereotype

I'm glad that you go and talk to people about the hobby, I was very badly interested in BJD's for years but couldn't work up the guts to ask people at the cons about them. Finally at a con in winnipeg there was a panel about them, after the panel i was still to intimidated to ask questions about them (after not being fan-girly enough for the anime crowd) one of the girls running the panel came up to me and asked if i had any questions and if i wanted to hold a doll (i guess i was looking longingly at them) , well after she broke the ice we where talked for like 15 minutes about dolls and not even 3 months later Maya came in the mail. As for the stereotypes i new going into this hobby there would be, my mom works in 1/12 scale and they have the rep for being old spinsters but they don't care and it's not true. I fight the stereotypes by keeping my hobby to myself only my family and close friends know I have a doll, they all love her just as much as i do, they love it when i bring her to family dinners and now my mom wants one. sorry i ramble, till my next post.

V.

 

Well, this weekend I took my boy to his first convention. Spooky empire up in Orlando or formerly known as screamfest. I think i was the only one there with their doll, although i met some other BJD collectors who just didn't have their dollies with them. But just outside the con we decided to hit up lunch at perkins and a man approached me and asked a whole bunch of questions. He was actually looking at getting one for his teenage daughter, who had said she wanted one, and just wanted to know really what it was all about and where he could get her one. He was very very excited to actually meet someone else who had this interest. I answered all his questions and directed him to a few seller sites so he could get his daughter her first doll. I think it's awesome that a father would be so invested in his daughter and her interests that he would walk up to a perfect stranger and ask questions. I would certainly encourage anyone to come up and ask me questions, even if it's just simple curiousity. That moment stands out far more than any stupid comments I got, which were actually very minimal.

 

Well, I am a little weird, but I can tell you this much: I work with a bunch of IT guys who are real guys, and their various hobbies, video games, building bizarre and fairly useless electronic things, sports, etc, are all geek-fests of some sort or another. Being a doll-geek versus an anime-geek versus a computer-geek, I've found over time, is really the same as liking different flavors of ice cream. LOL! We all like ice cream, and we're all into something that's going to be misinterpreted by people who aren't on the outside. Sometimes that can be a thrill. Cohesion of the group helps keep the group together, and all that jazz.

.hlp

 

this BJD doco wasent that bad(and im not just saying that coz im in it XD)

http://www.vivecoolcity.com/index.php?ID=153

 

That wasn't bad at all. I feel like they were very indifferent and nonjudgmental about the whole thing.

 

I have to say... I didn't read this thread for the longest time because I am a lolita (of the sweet lolita variety mostly) and also somwehat of a goth and I imagined it would just be like 12 pages of posts ragging on lolitas/goths/etc.

I'm glad to see that there hasn't been much of that at all!

I don't know if I can say stereotypes don't exist for a reason... obviously, I fit right into one of those stereotypes. But the negative ones... I suspect most of those form from one or two REALLY memorable people who then influence how everyone else thinks of a certain hobby or fandom (I've only read about half the pages of this thread so far, so forgive me if this has been raised already). And sometimes... that small handful of people who give a whole hobby a bad name really ARE nutty, I mean in any hobby with thousands of fans, at least a few of them, statistically, would probably end up being pretty crazy. And those people are going to end up a lot more memorable than the hundreds or thousands of other perfectly nice, normal people who make up the rest of the hobby/fandom. You see it in the media all the time with more high profile incidents- if a kid shoots someone else at school and is later found to have been an avid video gamer, then video games get hyped as encouraging violence- regardless of how many millions of people play video games and do not kill anyone.

I do find it interesting though... how much the stereotypes vary depending on who you talk to. The one I've come across most often is that all BJD owners are socaially awkward yaoi-obsessed fat shut-in lesbians... but that's mostly from people who spend a lot of time online and it probably originates from Encyclopedia Dramatica, 4Chan, etc. I don't think I've ever had that kind of reaction from random people in real life. People who don't know anything about dolls tend to stereotype doll collectors as either being immature and refusing to grow up, or being crazy and thinking of their dolls as actual children and replacements for the children they don't have. It's kind of interesting how different these are when coming from different groups! However, even people who ask if I have dolls as children replacements generally think they are pretty neat when they actually see them- there's a lot of oohing over how she has joints and can sit and stand in different ways and move her head, etc. Oddly enough, the people who tend to like my dolls least are my goth friends! XD Just goes to show!

Sorry if I got a bit rambly... I'm so bored at work today I feel like I'm going to go out of my skull! D :

 

I'm not gothic or into Japanese stuffs anymore. I'm asian myself, so it doesn't matter anyways. It has nothing to do with "gothic" .

 

I've been a dollmaker since I was a little kid. When you're a girl of six and making rag dolls for your friends, it's considered pretty normal -- no stigma there. When I was 13 or so, I "gave up" dolls, myself having decided that they were for little girls. But just a few years later, I made my first "art doll."

When I applied for art school, my entire portfolio consisted of dolls-as-art. Once I began attending classes, I soon realized everyone (fellow students as well as faculty) all expected me to stop making dolls. Very infuriating. One faculty member told me "you don't want to be known as 'the doll girl.'" (Really.)

Despite this, I continued to make jointed figures (which is how I define "dolls") as art during my time in school, and eventually made a stop-motion animated short film for my graduate project, featuring a puppet and some dolls I had made. I found the film people to be more appreciative of my work than the sculpture people, oddly enough.

I've struggled with others' preconceptions about dolls and the people who like them for most of my life. I've learned not to talk about the fact that I'm a dollmaker if I don't have my pictures with me; people jump to conclusions and make up their mind about you faster than you can possibly explain in words what you're really doing.

I have recently been thrilled to discover the ABJDs and the artistic hobby that's grown up around them. I love how it's a hobby that promotes free and creative expression in all participants.

Last May I attended a BJD meetup at an anime convention. Yes, there were a trio of beautifully dressed Lolitas, plus plenty of other different and interesting people, with their dolls. It was great to hang out with a bunch of doll enthusiasts - most of my friends don't really appreciate dolls outside of their friendship with me. There was an event where a group of doll owners paraded through the entire convention with their BJDs - I thought that was so cool.

I really appreciate and respect BJD owners who bring their dolls out in public with them. I tend to be a more private person, so for my part, I share my passion for dolls with my acquaintances, friends and family.

Together we show the stereotypes to be wrong.

 

Hmm, I haven't had any stereotypes since I've had Aki. I've actually had many people ask about him and where they could get one. So, I haven't had any yet but I know someone is going to say something some time but it's only a matter of when.

 

It's been mentioned in here how doll owners are portrayed in movies... I found it very ironic last night, to be working on removing a face-up whilst watching tv, only to find that the new episode of CSI:NY was about "companion"/life-sized dolls. *snerk* Did anyone catch this?

Now granted, these dolls weren't ball joint dolls and due to their size, the jokes and attitudes were mainly centered around the sexuality of the dolls. There were, however, several jabs made in the portrayal of the owners and their relationship to their dolls. I was instantly curious as to how ppl here would react to the episode. Sometimes the characters were sensitively portrayed, but the writers couldn't resist the urge to make the owners a tad obsessive of and hyper-reactive to their dolls.

And of course there was the "plastic is not LURVE!!!111omgone!!" speech at one point too, however brief and amusing it was. ;P

Any thoughts?

 

I think the one thing that really bothers me about people categorizing the hobby is that people don't even bother to look into the difference between BJD's and Barbie's. I tried explaining what my doll was to a classmate and she brushed it off saying "Sure, have fun playing with your dolls"

Personally, that's what bothers me the most.

I've been a doll collector since I was a child, and though I only recently moved into the world of BJD's, I have somewhere around 100 or so china doll's, and I continue to collect them now. Perhaps it does have something to do with there creepyness and the fact that, yes, I do concider myself to be a little bit gothic. However, that doesn't mean that everybody who's into this hobby is like that, for example, my best friend since highschool wants to get into BJD's (and would if not for lack of funds) and she is the farthest thing from goth I've ever known. In fact I'm fairly certain she would bleed pink glitter and my little pony's, if ever we where to test it xD.

The basic fact is, this is a new hobby that's just sort of breaking out into society, and people don't understand it yet. We're new, strange and different, and people can be unsettled by that. Personally, I don't worry about it, because other people's oppinion's don't mean all that much to me.

Frankly, I say let's not worry about it. Let the world think what it wants, it's not worth worrying about.

n_n

 

I saw a pretty creepy documentary about those dolls and the owners WERE weird(one guy had 8, I think. One was sending one out for repairs and treated it like a real woman). I don't know if every man that slaps down 5k for a sex doll is weird, but it definately smacks of necrophilia to me. There's a HUGE difference between the real dolls and bjds. One is for customization, the other is for carnal pleasure with....a lifeless hunk of silicon.

 

I normally tell people, "Everyday is Hallowe'en!" It's been my standyby reply(and favourite Ministry song) for almost 10 years, now.

 

Plastic may not be LURVE, but resin is :3

if the CSI people ever get their hands on BJD fandom, it'll be... sad. The victim will keel over after eating a whole Puki to smuggle it out of the country or something, or be stabbed in the neck with a stringing hook thing, or twanged in the eye with elastic, or there'll be a dolly-domino landslide and a Dollshe boy will crack somebody's skull open-- BUT THE DOLLS WERE PUSHED...

Crazy people shout the loudest. Every fandom (and demographic) has to put up with that-- being known for our exceptionally, ah, 'interesting' constituents rather than the vast majority of us who mainly keep our heads down. But it's not our right to pick and choose who gets to 'count' as a fan or a goth or whatever-- you can't weed out all the tares without uprooting some perfectly good wheat.

 

Ah...I think there's a problem here where we're doing onto others what we would like them not to do onto us.

I don't know how normal (which is relative) real-doll owners are and whether all of them form unhealthy attachments to pieces of plastics. However, judging based on documentaries aren't always the best because how many documentaries are there of BJDs which have come off as rather unflattering and portrayed us as somewhat obsessive? Even the better documentaries seem to require at least one owner who sounds awkward and uncomfortable (which comes off as socially-incompetent, whether it's true or not).

Note also that not everyone is in this hobby for customization. Some buy their dolls complete as they are and some do form extremely intense connections with their hunk of resin, thinking that they're alive, with a soul and loves them back.

 

Rhoswyn: LOL!! Oh man, thank you! You just made my night. *giggle* Incidently, I was watching another ep of CSI:NY and this time someone was stabbed to death with a miniature Statue of Liberty. She didn't have any ball joints, however, so we're safe.

Wolfmammy: Yes, I do realise there's a difference. Not every owner on the show gave off the smexin' vibe though, which is what I meant by "portrayed sensitively". Yet still, I noticed some parallels in general doll owing behaviour that the writers also teased up to possibly stereotypical (which is why I was wondering if anyone had seen the episode, for their thoughts) porportions. For instance, there was a guy who had a number of dolls, each of which had a very distinct personality. He talked about each of them as if they were real, mentioning their likes and dislikes to the investigators. When one doll had to be taken in to collect evidence, the man became aggitated like the doll was a frail relative. I think he even went so far as to blurt out that "she" didn't like strangers or needles. *it's been a few days now, sorry*

Now, I may not have spent 5 grand on my Hong, but oh yeah, I would have been aggitated (but not to those extremes... yet ). I haven't had him a full week yet, and he had a distinct personality straight out of the box. In fact... umm... I remember feeling relief that the doll's personality ended up fitting perfectly the personality of the character I was creating. I'd been angsting about ending up with a contrary doll! And I've heard jokes even amongst bjd owners about getting as attached as mentioned above to a doll, or how life-like the dolls are treated. Outside of the realm of sexuality. Althou I find Orrien pretty damn smexy IMNSHO. *realises this isn't helping the argument....*

As I said, I was curious for reactions, if there were any. I have run into the Crazy Cat Lady But With Dolls stereotype a little. I guess typing back into the Fighting It theme... I just made jokes about it and moved on. And as I told someone else... with as much money as I'm pouring into my dolls, I think I've earned the right to be a bit weird with them.

 

Stereotypes is something that you cannot completely "fight", seeing you cannot enter everybody brains and screw them around. The only way is to act different from the stereotype and even that might not work, as like said, people tend to think what they want, especially if they are not well informed.

I dislike porcelain dolls. I cant sleep in the same room as them. I have some twin friends that have their room and living room full of those and I tend to sleep in another room. My idea is porcelain dolls = scary. There might be ones that aren't, but still I stick to that idea.

You can't change my mind. Same thing goes to BJD's and people. You can, if you feel it would give lemons, informate people better about things, keeping in mind that it is always their choise to embrace or create own thoughts.

WELL, IT IS ONLY NORMAL, since dolls are pretty much human representations. Regardless of being real or not, it was sculpted at a human image, so it makes sense >>>>:

 

LKJ: I don't think it's unfair or hypocritical to say that buying a doll for sex is weird. I also don't delude myself into thinking that my dolls are 'alive'. Why is it that a goth can be seen as creepy and it is accepted as fact on these boards. But if you point out something that really IS creepy people start telling you not to judge?? I never said "Don't judge!"( THAT would've been hypocritical.)I said "Why is it accepted on these boards that goths are weird?"

Ana Latte: I understand that dolls have 'personality' in the sense that we give them characters. And sometimes when we have them in our hands we realize that this wig/outfit/face-up really suits them IRL. Then our sub-concious spits out a personality for them. But it's all make believe. I don't ever think, even for a nano-second that my dolls have a soul. I cherish my dolls very much, they are some of my most prized possessions(besides my boots), but they're just expensive, beautiful, plastic. I also don't think it's weird to think your doll looks sexy. They're finally coming out with guys that don't look like little boys and thats something to celebrate!

 

Okay...You seem to be arguing a point with me which I did not raise. I have not said at all that goths are weird and even if a few people say so on this board, that does not mean it is an accepted fact on the forum that goths are weird. In fact, I just said this in a few posts before: "...by talking about the hobby and representing myself as I am - I hesitate to say normal cause it might imply that people like goths would then be abnormal" Which means...yeah. I don't think they're weird. Or at least, no weirder than a heck lot of us.

Even if you don't delude yourself into thinking that your dolls are alive, there are people in the hobby who do. My point is that documentaries have a habit of capturing the worst aspects of an unusual hobby. And then people who watch it tend to stereotype all doll owners based on what they saw.

I'm not saying that people who buy sex dolls are clearly the epitome of normal (and I admit, I know too little about it to comment in detail on the subject). But I do think it's slightly strange to go around demanding why people think goths are weird or BJD owners are weird when you're saying, "But if you point out something that really IS creepy" based on a documentary you watched. It's creepy based on your opinion. Which would be no different than someone saying, "A person past the age of 10 playing with dolls IS creepy" or "A goth IS creepy" based on something they watched on TV.

Even if you're not saying, 'don't judge', you're asking why people would think goths are weird. Well, the same reason you think people who buy sex dolls are weird. It's not something you do, it's not something you can easily understand, it's an unusual interest and you watched a documentary about it which showed some pretty negative aspects about it.

I do think it's rather ironic (perhaps not hypocritical or unfair) to state as a fact that someone else's interest is weird, while demanding to know why another unusual interest is considered weird.

 

I'm far too olde to be given lectures over 'the golden rule'. There's a whole world of difference between real-dolls and bjds. And a far different reason for why each is bought. When you start placing dolls in the roles of real people, it's weird. I knew about the dolls long before the doc. ever came out.

Goths aren't weird, people who have sex with dolls are.