Fighting that Doll stereotype

As far as I can tell, the majority of BJDs ARE creepy. Even around these forums, just look around and you'll notice the majority of the dolls have very thick dark makeup with evil eyes or oversized lips, long necks and very thin faces, incredibly gothic. There are a few that look beautiful, but I found they usually have normal cheeks and don't look anorexic.

These are the kind of dolls I find cute and wish would be more popular:

(this one can use a bit more skin color and a happier face)




The majority of the ones I like have been heavily modified and have had masterful paint jobs that most people can't do:



Those last two are also very gothic, which seems to be the big thing right now with BJDs. Sadly people like bizarre looking dolls with exaggerated features, disfigured looking faces, tall skinny bodies, and over the top paint jobs. Seriously, when you step back and take a look, it's no wonder people find BJD owners weird because the BJD's themselves are weird.

 

As they say, there's no disputing taste, and it's very unfair to disparage other dolls and other doll owners because YOUR personal style doesn't mesh with theirs. Just because YOU don't like gothic, dramatic makeup or heavy modifications, that doesn't mean that these dolls are ugly, creepy, wrong, or bad. You consider these dolls to be "over the top," "disfigured," and "bizarre," but that doesn't mean that other people will also consider them to be as such. You're making value judgements about other people and their dolls based solely on your own personal tastes, and that's really unfair. These dolls aren't "weird" or "creepy" just because you, personally, don't like the way they're made up.

There are all kinds of different dolls on these forums, not just the "bizarre looking dolls" that you're talking about, not just the gothic dolls that you think are so creepy. It's ludicrous to assume that "goth" is "the big thing" with BJDs when there's really no single style common to all BJDs, even on these forums. It's absurd and unfair to make those kinds of statements about doll owners, when they're simply not true and based solely on your own personal tastes. :/ That's just not cool.

 

Actually, I've never heard the "BJD collector = goth girl" thing. The ONE stereotype I run into that I really, really dislike is the "Asian doll love = anime love" one. That is simply NOT true, liking Asian dolls doesn't necessarily mean you like all anime. Every time someone hears I have Pullips and that I plan on getting a DoT Shall, I instantly get bombarded with questions and comments about the latest happenings in Bleach and Naruto... two shows I actually dislike. Ugh! If these people only knew that the only two anime I've ever seen are Sailormoon and Death Note.

Anyway, I agree wih everything HiddenTohru said! It's not that we stereotype people on purpuse, or because we're snobs who don't think it's worth it to take the time to get to know everyone. We do it because it makes it easier for us to understand how our world works. For example, it'd be a bit difficult for me to start thinking about how different each girl in a sorority can be from the next. There could be one that's into cooking, one that's a theater major, maybe one of them is a DoA member! But, if I started to think about all that, it'd be hard for me to figure out which girls I meet could be in the sorority. It's easy for me to think that the ones that like to party, don't study much, and flirty shamlessly would be the ones in it. Just like it'd be easier for me to assume that, if a guy enjoys tailgate parties and football games, he probably enjoys beer as well. See how it works?

I don't think it's healthy, or wise, to pay so much attention to the "stigma" certain things carry. Personally, I think it's up to each of us to prove our OWN uniqueness. Like I said, most people I know assume collectors of Asian dolls are crazy about anime. It's up to me to show everyone I meet that I'm not of the "If it's not Japanese, it sucks" mindset -- I let them see how much I love Linkin Park and Garbage, how I adore Jim Carrey movies... then, they come to understand that ONE small fact about me can't be used to figure out what the rest of my personality is like.

 

But they are, and that's why they like them whether they realize it or not (they're attracted to those dolls because of those features, those features are weird, therefore they like them because they're weird. It's standard syllogism.) Picasso didn't think his paintings were weird, but they are. You have to look at things subjectively. I love anime, people think it's weird and it is weird and I can see exactly why somebody would think it's weird.

I know there are all kinds of dolls on these forums, I may not post much but I've been here a while. The majority though, is the stuff I mentioned.

There are all kind of styles, but gothic is the big thing, the owners themselves may not be goth but the dolls certainly are. Just look around, most dolls are some variety of the goth subculture, whether it be victorian, emo, or the christian thing with cross that I don't know what it's called. Even Wikipedia notices this. If you go to a lot the major doll manufacturers websites, you'll notice that a good portion (if not most) of the dolls are dressed in some sort of gothic style. Dollmore in particular. Most of the doll related magazines are steeped in the goth culture. For some reason they just go hand in hand.

I know what you mean, I never talk to any of my friends about anime but once they find out soon I'm labeled as someone who's obsessed with japan, even though I have a ton of interest outside of anime like music theory, hiking and camping, geography and calligraphy, linguistics etc... In fact most of my favorite movies are British and my favorite TV shows are Canadian. I'm always the weird outcast in the group.

 

Goth culture? Really? Most dolls are goths?

I'm sorry, but this is all your opinion, and not absolute fact. Quoting Wikipedia doesn't make it so. Indeed, Wikipedia is hardly the most reliable source for information. Not only that, but your arguments are based on circular reasoning--it's weird because people think it's weird and they're attracted to weird because it's weird. This makes absolutely no sense--it CERTAINLY isn't an example of syllogism--and it does nothing to support your argument that BJDs are inherently "weird" or "creepy" OR your argument that BJD culture is inherently "goth" in nature.

Dollmore is only a single company, and not all companies have predominantly "gothic" dolls. I've been browsing Iplehouse, Luts, Leeke, Fairy Land, and Lati lately, and none of those dolls are what I would consider "gothic," unless your definition of "gothic" is so broad that it would include any kind of BJD. Even the Wikipedia article you posted doesn't state that BJDs are steeped in goth culture, only that there's "overlap" between the BJD groups and other groups such as anime, cosplay, and gothic lolita.

I browsed the Photostories sub-forum and was disappointed to note that the first ten threads contained no goth dolls. I did see a few dolls that were rather "punk," but none of them seemed to have converted to Arianism nor were they doing any sort of pillaging. Perhaps you should refine your definition of "goth," or at least define it, before you start implying that all of these dolls are goths. :/

 

It's funny you mention sorority girls! I had a good friend in college who was from my hometown (we knew each other because we had the same high school voice teacher but didn't go to the same school), and she was the most stereotypical sorority girl on the surface. Everyone who met her thought she was an airhead and a typical sorority girl. But I can tell you, not only is she smart, she's very hard-working and a gifted musician (we were both voice majors). She also has a wicked sense of humor and a smart and nice boyfriend (he was in the music fraternity but unlike most of them is a genuinely nice guy). Most of my friends thought I was crazy for being friends with her, and my mother never believed me when I said she was so awesome, but I can tell you that the only thing she had in common with most stereotypical sorority girls was the membership and the bubbly demeanor.

I also dislike Bleach and Naruto. XD I actually haven't seen most of the newer anime out right now, just about the only thing I'm currently interested in seeing is the new Slayers series. XD It was my second ever anime (my first was Dragon Ball Z, I was kind of crazy as a tween).

 

Wait, are you sure you are talking about this forum? I mean, I just took a quick trip over to the gallery section, and viewed every thread on the first page, all of which were marked as unread to me. I saw many casually dressed dolls, several fantasy types, a few victorian-esque, and a couple of lolita girls, amongst other things. "Majority" seems a major overstatement on the state of gothic dolls, not that I even saw anything resembling Siouxsie Sioux, mind you. Unless you meant the faux-goth types; afterall, most people would not know gothic if they were smacked upside the head with a Christian Death record, but I digress (though I can understand confusion); oh, but wait: I did not see anything related to that! Nor do I even recall anything remotely anorexic...

 

ok, taking your advice here - going to look at the gallery first page.

1. cyber goth
2. normal man and cute child
3. girl dressed in white
4. blonde girl
5. silver haired sard
6. cute brown haired girl
7. vampire dressed in white
8. lion type warrior man
9. punk type guy
10. cute child twins
11. cute baby girl
12. brown haired vampire
13. ill looking man
14. blonde woman
15. ginger child
16. fantasy style man in white
17. dolls house with various styles
18. man in black with smiley girl
19. normal man
20. britney spears
21. 3 cute children, 2 normal adults
22. historical style woman
23. smiling man with scar
24. man in black
25. boy in pink
26. patchwork fox
27. girl in dress and normal boy
28. elf in white
29. cute child lilac hair
30. girls in dresses
31. tanned elf in hunter clothes
32. pale man in black
33. normal woman

ive italicised the ones which are borderline gothic and bolded the ones which pretty much are

of course, interpretation is all induvidual. i dont count dolls simply wearing dark colour as gothic. see the wiki article, those components make gothic

so no, i cant really agree with this. being on the board over a year, i cant agree either. i do see gothic dolls, but theyre not the majority. or do you think wearing black makes someone a goth? some people are born with pale skin and black hair, may like to wear black - does that make them a goth? they didnt choose their skin colour and hair. i was talking about this with my uni friends actually, one saying chavs shout 'goth' at her just because her hairs dark and she wears black. she isnt a goth...at all

also, have you seen the thread in general discussion saying how rubbish the wiki article on BJDs is? honestly, that cannot be used as some sort of evidence. its just written by some person. ive been to cons and meetups..at the meetups, out of 20-something dolls, none were gothic. at the cons, again, none were gothic. it really isnt the majority : / also, if you know the board so well you should know its a bit of a : / to use owners pictures in a discussion without asking them. also, are you seriously saying cute YOSDs arent popular? @_@

 

@Datsuki lol! Yeah, agreed to everyone who has pointed out the overwhelmingly average count of "goth" dolls.

Until this thread started out I had no idea there was a "Doll Stereotype." I know a few people who dress in Lolita style and they have zero interest in dolls. I know a few people who dress in varied gothic styles and they have zero interest in dolls. The couple of people I do know in real life (as in, friends I had before knowing their interest in the BJD hobby) are just... non-aligned? (Not sure how else to put it, haha! Excuse the Warhammer terms!)

Now, I get told a lot that my doll itself is creepy. But the people saying that aren't telling me that I'm creepy. Not even by proxy, really. It seems to me, from general experience as to how dolls are treated [by the public], there's a ... sort of similar thing to spiders (!). Seems quite a few people are inclined to balk at dolls. Actually, I've been quite surprised how many people that has been...!

Regarding stereotypes: I think there's a fine line between shared interests and actual stereotypes. Or at least, there seems to be, according to popular opinion.

 

I think a lot of it might depend on the board/doll-group you're on, and the type of members that board attracts.

I'm on two.

DoA is definately Goth/Emo heavy. At meets, I and my dolls stand out like a sore-thumb among the goths and emos both human and doll.

On the other group/board, there's hardly a goth to be found (among the membership OR their dolls).

Teddy

 

I have to concur with Datsuki here. Better said than I could manage.

There's a difference between being a pale-skinned brunette, or having a doll that wears a lot of black, and being goth. You can be born with fair skin and dark hair-- being goth is a choice. Hearing every single doll out there with a moodily lit photoshoot or a limited colour palette labelled goth kind of irritates me. Sure, lots of retailers sell goth-styled clothing (or at the very least, clothing that is black in colour, which is what apparently passes for goth these days) but there's also a huge market for legitimately childlike clothing and the white ruffly frillies. There's personal taste (yeah, I dig sweet, light, airy things too, and my iPod would like to state otherwise) and you have to factor in that there never appears to be enough of what you want anywhere-- there could always be more. That's always the way things look. If you like cute heterosexual couples exclusively, this place is crammed full of that yaoi garbage. If you like yaoi couples exclusively, this place is full of playing-house wish fulfillment fantasy crap. If you like blondes, too many brunettes. If you like brunettes, too many blondes. It's kind of perspective.

And who said there was anything wrong with there being a lot of goths or emo kids at meetups? Like every other culture out there, they have their obnoxious people, but on the whole the nicest people I have personally ever met have been at least marginally goth.

(And on a sillier note-- Wait, so being pale and wearing black is enough to make you goth? Holy crap, I better run down to the Cathedral and break the news, all the priests are just gonna freak...)

EDIT: Rayofash, my main beef is-- are you using some of other people's pictures? Not cool.

 

What is more worrisome to me is the sterotyping or "judging" that can go on within this hobby. If non-BJD lovers think it's wierd, too bad; as long as we within the hobby are open to all different kinds and sizes of BJDs, and treat each other with respect no matter how we dress/play with/customize our dolls, we'll have a fun safe place to hang!

 

Hear, hear! I very much agree.

 

First thing:
Most people don't even know the true meaning of what Goth is. When something that is new in the scene comes (in this case not only dolls) ordinary people always put stereotypes to what they don't know.

I am used to this and i really don't care since i am free to like what i want and choose the kind of things i get identify with. Since i am a little boy, i always love dolls more than action figures, living in a island that always want to put all in the ''manhood'' i have fight all of that and today i am still myself.

I know that stereotype can get very annoying, especially in a hobby that there is a lot of different people into. I saw the KCRA news report and i really don't like it because they most focus in the obsession with the BJDS. That has been the case in a lot of things that have become famous from video games to anime etc.

Any person, from any genre or ambient have the rights to like what they want.

 

You are very right.

 

rayofash, goth and emo are two distinctly different things. It's not a sub-genre within the goth(or punk) culture.

Just because someone's doll is dressed in victorian or lolita fashion doesn't imply that their doll is 'gothic'.

I don't see anything about these dolls that makes them 'creepy'. They're just dolls. I've seen plenty of bjds in galleries, lj, and websites and the great majority are not goth. I've rarely even seen anyone pull off a face-up that truly screams 'goth' either, regardless of whether that's what the artist was going for.

It just smacks of bigotry & narrow mindedness when people say "OMG! There's too much of X in the hobby! It's the Big Thing!" when there's not enough evidence to back it up.

 

I think that's the opposite of me. Some of the first sites that I encountered with bjds were people dressing SD10s(or sd13s, I forget) in bondage gear! I had only clicked it as there was a tutorial showing how to make sandals for your dolls.

For a while I wondered if most of the people buying immature dolls were pedos acting out sick fantasies with dolls. Now I know that most people don't do that.

 

People don't seem to mind that I collect dolls. They think they're creepy but they don't stereotype me. I hope.

 

What is perpetuating this gothic stereotype?
Mostly, it's the people who are into Elegant Gothic Lolita. Honestly, that's how I found the hobby. I had an EGL craze-phase and I wanted to know ANYTHING related to it.
It's a shame all people who collect BJD's are pictured as such, but it's the same with any hobby, really. Stamp-collectors are pictured as geeks, and porcelain dolls collectors are pictured as either OLD or creepy. :/

Am I in the wrong hobby because I care so much that the crowd here seems overwhelmingly gothic?
In no way am I gothic. Nor ...well, anyone within any of the meet-ups I've been to, spare a couple. Are you afraid of 'gothic' people or is it purely the labeling issue you dislike? Because, in today's world, nothing you do will go un-labled. I like a lot of eclectic bands that aren't very popular, very old music and very chill music. I'm generally labeled as a hipster or a wannabe. I know I don't strive for that 'image' and my friends know it too. That's all that matters to me. If being labeled as gothic until someone talks to you bothers you, and is making you seriously reconsider loving this hobby, perhaps it's not the hobby for you? But if you love your darlings and love the hobby and love at least a few of the people, don't let a label stop you!

I don't appreciate this stereotype mainly because I hate it when people jump to conclusions about me based upon my likes. Please share your thoughts. I've been itching to discuss this for the longest time.
Like I said, stereotypes and labels are hard to avoid. They'll follow you with any hobby you have. From stamp-collecting to acting in your spare time to signing to writing sad poetry to wearing a turtle-neck sweater because it's cold, you and everyone else will always be labeled. What you gotta do is have fun with it. One day, when you know you're going to a place full of OVERLY judgemental people, wear something painfullyoverlyamazingly gothic. And then skip and sing really happy folk-music. Shock factor is fun!! :3
If you're not into that, just make it a point to prove to people that you're not. Don't dress the part and be yourself
If the hobby matters to you that much, it won't bother you as time goes on.



Are those other people's photos you found in the forums?

 

I really don't think there's anything wrong with that, either. People can dress their dolls however they like, it doesn't actually ever bother or disgust me.

I have my own tastes (prefering to dress my dolls in somewhat 'fancier' clothing), but I don't really care what other people dress their dolls in. I still don't get why people would dress their dolls in normal casual clothing, but that's their choice and what they like. =)

If people wind up thinking I'm goth, nerd or even a fetishist because of how I dress my dolls, that's their problem. I don't really care what people (especially people on the internet) think of me, unless it's in a professional business transaction like the marketplace.

People can go ahead and stereotype me aaaaall they want. =)