1. It has come to the attention of forum staff that Dollshe Craft has ceased communications with dealers and customers, has failed to provide promised refunds for the excessive waits, and now has wait times surpassing 5 years in some cases. Forum staff are also concerned as there are claims being put forth that Dollshe plans to close down their doll making company. Due to the instability of the company, the lack of communication, the lack of promised refunds, and the wait times now surpassing 5 years, we strongly urge members to research the current state of this company very carefully and thoroughly before deciding to place an order. For more information please see the Dollshe waiting room. Do not assume this cannot happen to you or that your order will be different.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Dollshe Craft and all dolls created by Dollshe, including any dolls created under his new or future companies, including Club Coco BJD are now banned from Den of Angels. Dollshe and the sculptor may not advertise his products on this forum. Sales may not be discussed, no news threads may be posted regarding new releases. This ban does not impact any dolls by Dollshe ordered by November 8, 2023. Any dolls ordered after November 8, 2023, regardless of the date the sculpt was released, are banned from this forum as are any dolls released under his new or future companies including but not limited to Club Coco BJD. This ban does not apply to other company dolls cast by Dollshe as part of a casting agreement between him and the actual sculpt or company and those dolls may still be discussed on the forum. Please come to Ask the Moderators if you have any questions.
    Dismiss Notice

Fighting that Doll stereotype

Aug 20, 2008

    1. Living your life being concerned about what other people (and especially the kind of people who'd pay attention to anything shown on TV, which in my opinion is 90% dreck right across the board) think of what you're doing sounds like a sure-fire way to make yourself miserable to me.

      Also, I haven't noticed any particular "stereotype" attaching to BJD owners, unless perhaps it's an interest in Asian culture for those who buy the Asian BJDs on this board. There are other types of BJD that are outside the scope of this board that attract other types of collectors. If it's a matter of some people not understanding why adults mess with dolls, then you run into that no matter what type of doll you collect - Barbies, art dolls, BJDs or many others. I don't see it stopping anybody who likes dolls from collecting them or playing with them.
       
    2. Thank you, shasta for those kind words, and thank you all for your input. I guess it really stuck me when a friend said to me "you don't look like the kind of person who collects those things," to which I reply, "So what kind of people do?" >___< And it is a reaction to the media, because once again they take the image and solidify the notion that dolls are creepy, do belong to people who are mentally young, and that dolls will kill you in your sleep. For me, it's like "please, it's getting old" when it comes to the same stereotypes. I say that the majority of the doll market looks gothic because the look of the most popular kinds of clothes and make-up is edgy, gothic lolita-esque, and childish, as many people has stated.

      Not that I give 2 cents what people label me as, but that doesn't mean I can't be annoyed, but most the time it elicits nothing more than an eyeroll. I'm proud of the fact that I have this as a hobby, and I'm proud showing up to doll meets as myself: a quirky, yet throroughly normal person. But there is one thing in common I see among all of us: We have very healthy, active imaginations, and seemingly, anyone with imaginations like ours is kind of weird.
       
    3. well the whole lolita thing is really popular with korea and japan (as well as the goth thing) so thats where that bit comes in but as for so many people that have dolls being goth id have to say ive noticed a whole bunch of other people into them too, jocks, preps punks everyone not just goths

      and dolls are thrown into the creppy catagory because of all the movies and horror stories about them, and thats because something tha twas originally supposed to be innocent and harmless becoming evil scares people more than things that are already known to be scary and harmful

      for example children, clowns, and dolls, all of these either represent, or used to represent, innocence in some way

      there are numerous succesful scary movies involving evil children, evil dolls, and evil clowns (just to name a few: chucky, dead silence, pet semetary, the oman, children of the corn, it)

      dolls and clowns have taken the worst of it but who knows maybe we will all fear children someday lol


      and goths are naturally out casts and learn to not give a crap what other people think of them so getting a doll is alot easier for them (most people admit they worried/worry to much about what people would think knowing they where interested in dolls)

      so thats probably why they are so open about their dolls
       
    4. As hard as I might I just can't bring myself to care what label people will slap on me for what I'm interested in. Granted, they've been doing it ever since I was still in middle school.

      Everything in this world comes with a stereotype attached. Some people embody it. Some don't. And just as you said, those who don't are going to have to deal with it.

      (And honestly, if you really cared that much how people thought of you because you have such an expensive doll, why would you have gotten it in the first place?)

      You're new to the hobby. When you get in far enough, you stop caring what people think. It's the hobby that's important, not the opinions of outsiders.

      EDIT - Also, just to be a turd; that PV that you linked to is the theme song for the anime Rozen Maiden, which centres around living BJDs in EGL who are fighting to become 'the perfect girl'.

      2ND EDIT - This is actually a better example of the sterotype if you're gonna go with the goth/creepy bit using that song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ym1wMvyCjg
       
    5. I'm not goth.

      I just look very plain, very regular. People are really surprised when they find out I collect dolls.

      It's is both amusing and irritating at the same time when I get this comment:

      "...And you're still PLAYING with dolls?!"

      I just give them the un-amused look and I just shut them out. If I'm in a completely bad mood, then I'd say something to them.

      Today, the "Chucky Doll" thing came up again and again and my dolls are being equated with that movie.

      I was not amused and I looked at them like they're the weirdest and craziest people on the planet.

      I don't know, but I tend to give really mean looks--so they stopped making fun of my hobby. :lol:

      Needless to say, I expected this from mainstream people especially when I started going to doll meets.

      Those people who stereotype you just don't have a creative mind. Therefore, all they can do is assume that you're one of those "weird doll people."
       
    6. I'm less concerned with people's opinions, but more concerned with this:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncanny_valley

      I try to be sensitive about people seeing my dolls because it's a legitimate reaction. Not that it gives them the right to say things about me or my dolls, but at least it lets me understand why they react like that.

      People do and say a lot of strange things when they're reacting out of fear.
       
    7. this is wrong but its close enough

      " be yourself because the people who mind dont matter, and the people who matter dont mind"


      im considered goth or punk by many

      but the truth is im not either

      i like black and white, they are my favorite colors, i dont know why, but they have been since the 4th grade when all the other girls liked blue or pink or purple

      i wear alot of colors with my black and white, but my closet consists of mainly black t shirts cuz thats what i feel comfortable wearing

      but most of the poeple ive met who are into dolls are not goth


      but its nothing more than a statistic anyways

      if people ask "are you goth?" i say "im not a can of food, i dont need a lable"
       
    8. I'm glad that a lot of people are saying that 'you shouldn't care what others think of you' etc., and while I share those sentiments, it's really a lot harder to do than say.

      To say that you shouldn't be involved in this community or be in the hobby because you feel a bit uncomfortable or weird of how people may perceive you is a bit harsh. Because I care. Like everyone else, I spend a lot of money on getting the dolls, and I'm not ashamed of it, but I really don't feel comfortable taking them out or sharing them with other people. I'm aware of the stereotypes that exist around these dolls, and maybe I don't take them out into public because I'm mindful of those stereotypes (I'm pretty sure I'm none of those, by the way). I don't need the attention or opinions from others who feel it necessary to make unwanted comments. I suppose I also don't feel the need to take my dolls out or anything like that anyway, but should anyone really say 'you shouldn't be in this hobby' because I'm a bit sensitive to what others think of me?

      Just to make it clear, I'm all for being comfortable in your own skin and doing things for yourself (if they're harmless to others). And anyone who knows me will tell you that I'm very comfortable with who I am. I just tend to be a bit more private about my likes and dislikes. So throw away statements like 'why would you be in this hobby if people's opinions mattered so much' strike me as being a bit careless. I might not take my dolls out to the park because I feel weired out by the attention, but I have plenty of fun sharing the hobby with friends who just accept it, or who are involved in it ;)

      And to return to the original topic...

      People use words without really understanding what they mean anyway. Goth and Punk being a case in point. Like others have pointed out, for some people alternative = goth/punk, like Asian appearance = Chinese to some others. I feel annoyed about stereotypes too, but there's not much you can do about them except ignore or try and convince people that their perception is flawed.

      I think the other posters have it pretty down-pat when they mention the stereotype of Gothic-Lolita fashion, Japanese pop-culture making it into English speaking countries and so forth as the reason for why these stereotypes come about. I think someone else also mentioned that dolls can generally creep people out because they're inanimate objects that resemble a human being. You can probably think of many examples where dolls have been used as substitute people throughout the continents and in history, and it's probably that likeness to people, but not being people that bothers some. maybe? :?

      And maybe someone else knows better than I do, but what about the figure of the doll in, say, Victorian England, early settler America or in Europe?
       
    9. lorialet:should anyone really say 'you shouldn't be in this hobby' because I'm a bit sensitive to what others think of me?




      no noone should say that


      if your willing to spend the money on these dolls then there must be a reason for it, and if the dolls make you happy then you SHOULD be a part of this hobby

      and if people say you shouldnt they dont know you so dont worry about what they have to think, i know you just said your sensitive to what others think but if i where you i would work on that

      because caring what everyone thinks about you is a good way to lead a miserable life
       
    10. It seems I failed to be clear about what I mean by spending so much on a doll if one is worrying that much about what others think.

      If it's getting to the point where one feels the need to fight the stereotype, do everything that one can to erase the stereotype, etc., then I have to wonder, if they care that much, why spend so much money? It's not productive and as someone said earlier it will just make them feel incredibly miserable.

      I don't take my dolls out in public, because I don't want to hear the comments. I don't want the looks. I got more than enough of that in school. But not taking one's dolls out in public is not the same as being so afraid of a stereotype that one is bothered by things that portray that stereotype.

      That's the tone I'm feeling from the post. That's why I said what I did.
       


    11. i understood what you ment :) and i agree
       
    12. It's difficult to be a loli goth stereotype being a short, large, middle-aged woman who wears jeans and teeshirts to work. *laughs* And my guys all wear jeans and teeshirts, too.

      Do I carry my dolls out in public? Sure thing! They go to the grocery store, restaurants, hobby stores, my work, museums, etc.

      Do I get funny looks? Yep.

      Do I care? Nope.

      My resin men give me joy and taking them places and taking photos of them at those places is fun.

      My husband has no problem carrying them, will push them in the grocery cart and will interact with them in the photos.

      We're geezers - people's opinion about ourselves is not very important anymore.

      However, I can definitely see how abjds can have a particular stigma surrounding them especially if the first exposure to the uninitiated is at an anime con where dolls are gothed, lolied and punked along with their cosplaying keepers, or when people who walk by a meetup see everyone all duded up in a particular style because of a themed meetup. (Example - some people and dolls showed up in full loli for a tea party recently. The baby shower at another table gave us a combination of odd or interested looks.)

      I can also see how younger collectors may have to deal with peer pressure in high school (or lower) as dolls are considered immature and childish. I remember it was better to blend in during those school years, so I can understand how some feel it better to keep their hobby contained at home, at least for the time being.
       
    13. I also fail to see see a "gothic" stigma attached to this section of doll collecting, but then again, the first things that come to mind when I hear the word are Siouxsie and the Banshees, Bauhaus, The Sisters of Mercy, Clan of Xymox, Switchblade Symphony and so on. ;)

      More relevant to your questions, I cannot stress enough that you should be here for your own reasons. Don't let the ignorance of those outside of the hobby bring you down, nor should you shy away just because you do not fit in with the majority of others in the community.
       
    14. When someone is really into a hobby, people not in that hobby tend to look at it as weird (and we aren't the only hobby with stereotypes attached). They aren't in the hobby, they don't know much about it, and a lot of people won't take the time to find out more. A lot of people will also not react well to things that they deem as outside the norm. Now having said that, the only time I've gotten rude reactions to my dolls is at anime cons--most likely because A. People know just enough to be dangerous, and B. Since you're both at the con, it must be ok to walk up and say things that most folks would never say to a total stranger :P

      Outside of cons, I have a feeling that the biggest hang ups people might have is over money--I heard a co-worker exclaiming over the prices of American Girl dolls (her niece was really into them). She said "how could anyone spend $100 on a doll?!" I didn't say anything, just thought to myself "if only she knew" However, people spend big bucks on all kinds of luxury items--they just aren't used to the idea of dolls costing that much. I haven't run into many people labeling them as "goth". There are a lot of owners who like that style, though obviously there are plenty who don't either. Really, I fail to see how it matters much. Of all all the stereotypes to attach to something, that one seems pretty harmless to me.

      Honestly, aside from setting someone straight who has made a comment directly to you, there's not much you can do and it's not worth worrying about so much. People are going to think what they're going to think, and driving yourself crazy trying to change that is placing far too much importance on them. Unless someone is rude to my face (which I don't tolerate nearly as well, lol), it isn't something I think about too much.
       
    15. I agree that dolls are often seen as freaky.
      For instance, the 'living/creepy doll' stereotype is pretty common in movies/tv shows etc. How many times have you seen a quiet/creepy girl holding a doll? I know i've seen a lot of them :_:

      Whilst i am weird, I'm in no way a budding serial killer/lifeless loser or any other stereotype. I'm just a normal (ish) girl with a hobby that's different than other peoples :/

      The actual doll stereotype is also annoying. Dolls are always automatically "creepy" and I can't count the number of people who've said "That's gonna kill you at night.." or "aren't you scared you're going to wake up and see that with a knife in front of you?"

      to which i've replied that it's a doll, and while i've given him a personality and characteristics, I truly don't believe he's going to jump up and kill me at any time, and if they wish to believe that, they can go and be scared of a doll. -.-
       
    16. I dn't have to deal with the "spitster" thing yet. BUT I'm at a akward age (fourteen) where if I carry aroung a doll, I appear, um well. . .simple minded :sweat I'd rather be called: Creepy Goth Art Student then slow.
       
    17. The only 'solid stereotype' i have of BJD owners are that they are people who value and appreciate the beauty of their little angels and of others. I feel that I can approach any BJD owner and not feel alienated, stared at or unappreciated.

      Otherwise, I just let negative comments from other people slide away. They don't know, they don't care and probably just want a doll (or hobby) of their own but don't have the guts to go out and embrace that part of themselves. ^__^
       
    18. I agree with you on the first point. I personally don't know anyone who is involved in a crusade to fight these stereotypes, but I sure as hell would believe that would be a pretty demoralising expedition *_*

      Second point is cool too, and I totally see where you're coming from, but I think that not taking a doll out can be the same as being bothered by a stereotype, for some people. It doesn't have to be, but it is for some (I know for sure that I was like that about certain hobbies up to a certain point in my life, and I still am about other things). But in general, I agree with you that not taking dolls out in public is different to being sassed about a stereotype.

      Octobercrow: I guess it's not that I'm hyper nervous and worried about what others think about me all the time, because I agree, that would be a pretty miserable existence :( But for me to say that that I don't give what other people think of me would be a complete lie too. I guess that has less to do with the doll, but more to do with me being a closed person who takes time to open up to people, whether they be about my hobbies or my opinions :) Believe me, I've worked on it my whole life, and am still working on it. But I don't think I'd ever reach a point where I'd be totally careless of what others thought of me... just because that would be pretty scary too, the kind of person you could become.
       
    19. Not caring what others think doesn't mean that everybody has to (or wants to) know your own private joyful things, with your dolls or anything else. I like to keep things to myself just because they are for ME to enjoy, not for other people to opine on, whether their opinions are bad or good (and I've run into a lot of positive comments on my dolls from non-doll people, as well as on other things I personally enjoy like my art work). It's all in what you're trying to accomplish. If someone criticized or made fun of me for having dolls I'd have no problem telling them off or making a smartassed comment back.

      The thing is, people make fun of, and impose stereotypes on, EVERYTHING. I look pretty ordinary and have an ordinary respectable job, yet I've had people make fun of my looks and my job and even the fact that I have had pets. Whatever you do is going to seem odd to some group of people. I get a laugh out of people at anime cons looking askance at BJD people, people in full loli, etc. because the vast majority of people I know aren't into anime or cons and would think ANYONE attending an anime con was weird, whether or not they dressed funny or had a doll.
       
    20. Well said, Mukino.

      Am I in the wrong hobby because I care so much that the crowd here seems overwhelmingly gothic? I don't appreciate this stereotype mainly because I hate it when people jump to conclusions about me based upon my likes.

      You just contradicted yourself there, big time. BJD fans seem gothic but you don't want people to judge you based on what you like? You're labeling people in the hobby as gothic and creepy but you don't want to be labeled? A bit hypocritical, don't you think?

      If you're into BJD's you're gonna get crap, get over it. It's not because of other people in the hobby, because believe it or not, we're a very diverse community. You're not in the wrong hobby because you care so much that the crowd here seems overwhelmingly gothic, you're in the wrong hobby because you care what people think. The hobby isn't fun if you're always upset by comments and assumptions. If you let those get to you, the hobby sucks because you get them all the time.

      Just my two cents but I don't give a crap about what other people think. I don't have time for that. I'm amazed others do.