Fighting that Doll stereotype

ok, i used to be a goth, when i was a teenager. i'm now 20 and now i'm not really anything in particular. i dress like everyone else in jeans and a t-shirt, but i don't see how being a goth or a gothic lolita etc. means someone is into BJDs or whatever. most goths i've met or seen around probably don't even know what a BJD is (in this town, probably because they're so drugged up, they don't know what most things are, but then that's yet another stereotype saying all goths in bristol are drug addicts LOL!) i mean, everyone has stereotypes about everyone else. there's no point in denying it. stereotypes exist for several reasons, one because sometimes the stereotypes are based on a majority and two, because the media portrayed someone that way. everyone looks at someone else as soon as they meet them and immediately, their brain evaluates them on their appearance. it's just the way we are.

 

It is thrue that there are a lot of stereotypes on dolls... but Here (in quebec city) it is more about age....

I do not have a doll, and I do not know anyone who as any, but just talking about them and people will wonder how old you are.... or if you have mental problems or something XP

And if someone saw one, Whatever the doll will look like they will think the owner is the same....

I'm sorry if what I say is not really understandable, but in my head it is clear XD

 

I don't know where that 'gothic stereotype' thing came from either. I enjoy wearing Lolita ( see this site for more info, if you want to! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothic_Lolita ), and sometimes, I wear gothic lolita. And I have a DOLLFIE! And people think i'm weird, because of that. Generally, if you do things out of the ordinary (especially in Singapore, as we're more conservative.) people will deem you as 'weird' or a 'freak', & that's why they think doll owners are weird as well. I think it's not right to stereotype doll owners in this way. I mean, it's just like any other hobby! It's just that the lolita thing is a plus, cos' some people have the mentality that dolls are related to all the gothic-y macabre kind of thing. ): so, we have to prove them wrong!

& if people say we're weird because we own dolls, speak the truth.
or our dolls will come after them. x3 hehe.

 

BJD/ABJD's hobby started in Asia and became a very popular hobby for teenagers in Japan. Gothic Lolita was also a popular fashion subculture/statement for teenagers. The fashion influenced by the Victorian era (lace and extravagant hat that come in hat boxes) and dolls clothing (it explains how some Lolita dresses are cut above the knee). Over the years it has been developed and refined to what it is today.

I think because BJD hobby started in Japan combined with Gothic Lolita fashion is where the 'stigma' comes from.

I don't think Gothic/Gothic Lolita/Lolita is a stigma at all. Although it is true that everyone is judged by thier first impression which has alot to do with how you look.

When I look at someone with dark heavy make-up and leather atire I immediately think 'Gothic'. It has nothing to do with them as person but a statement to the fashion.

People who stereotype are people who judge by looks linked to personality are usually those who are ignorant, they don't know any better.

Honestly, I wouldn't worry what other people think. I tend to think 'Don't they have anything better to do then to look at me funny? Geez.. if only they had a hobby..' about them.
Be proud, if people stereotype you who is the one really missing out?

.::::.

 

sounds familiar, except that i'm just BARELY under 30, don't have or want kids of my own... EVER. (babysat the cousins too much during the tantrum years i think) don't have or want a sig. other of either gender... just don't need the extra hassle right now.

i have 2 cats, my friends are all in different states now, and i live at home taking care of my 91 year old gramma, and the house, the yard, the dishes, the cooking, the cleaning, the shopping, the fixing (anything non-electrical... i zapped meself a good one trying to fix a switch once... never again)

and i sew.
a lot.
and make tiny stuff, and sculpt, and random artsy stuff like making a scale model of destiny island from kingdom hearts out of sculpey because i was bored. really bored. i even made tiny paoupu for the trees. the trees are about the height of a dime, you do the math.

i've really never seen a stereotype among the bjd owners i've met, and my own want of a doll stems from the artistic standpoint that some of them are just GORGEOUS, and as a seamstress and costumer, i just want to make a billion outfits for them just because i can and love doing it, but should prolly have one of my own to start with. partially because of modeling outfits, but mostly because THEY'RE JUST SO COOL and poseable, and pretty, and some are ever so slightly creepy but that's just the glass eyes and humanoid quality of some of them....
...
did i mention they're pretty?

for me, it's not a kid replacement or anything stupid like that wanting a doll, it's mostly it's the cosplay fairy in me wanting a gorgeous poseable doll to sew tiny outfits out of all the spare yards, bits, and scraps of larger costumes and pageant dresses left lying around the house.
(hey, i spend 8 bucks a yard for a fabric, i'm gonna FIND a way to use those little scraps. oh, and i don't mean pageant like miss america, i mean pageant like RuPaul, so there's a looooot of sequins and psuedo-suede and satin and cool random fabrics in those boxes.)

wooo, i ramble.
sorry, shutting up now.

 

I think there are many different reasons for wanting a doll, most people I know it's an artistic outlet for them. Even people I know who cant' stand dolls love BJD's because they're a work of art. And even people I know who don't have a desire to collect them still come up to me and say BJD's are beautiful.
But yes, for me there's a definite creative outlet now that I have a doll. I can make him cosplay stuff to cosplay along with me, or just create things for him cause I want to create something. So definitely artistic expression and interest in the hobby.

I guess I might fit in the stereotypes though even though stereotypes are never an accurate description of any subculture, they're just a lable people use. I'm single (with no sig other in sight), 28 yrs old, no kids, a latent goth (I used to be uber goth but now that I have a job that is sometimes 50 hours a week I dont' have time to spend hours on makeup) and well, my other hobbies are completely geekerish haha. like today I complimented someone on having 20 sided dice on their t shirt lol I'm definitely not a shut in, I think the only time I've spent at home this week is when I was sleeping, otherwise I'm totally out the door most of the time with an active life.

also, the gothic stereotype came out of asia really. BJD's how alot of people in the west (through anime, media or whatever else) became aware of them was due to an association with japanese gothic lolita culture. It could be not true that they are connected however coming into the west this was a very common portrayal. I don't actually care I guess being that I've been into being "goth" for 15 years it's not something I take offensive. And as someone into that subculture I'm open enough to know that the majority of BJD owners aren't into gothic, and dont' see these dolls as creepy. (to me the creep factor never even crossed my mind but then I've never had a yuppie preppy mainstream mindset of things in the world in the firstplace). I think due to the asian lolita viewpoint coming into the west (and soo much in media totally NOT understanding lolita, the one video with Kerli, a real lolita would not have a tutu skirt that short, it's completely fetish how they portray lolita in that video) then things get stereotyped much like someone who's a star wars fan gets equated to being a fat slob (90% that one's untrue). So yeah, I'm running into people weirded out by my doll alot and don't assume me to be goth at all, they just think it's weird I own a doll period, but then they dont' understand that alot of the time he's a continuing artistic project for me. For example at DragonCon I had two reactions while I was carrying around Owen, one was "whoa, who's that? weird doll", the other was "oo! that's cool, how does it work?". And being I was wearing a red shirt and jeans and very little makeup not one asked me a question about BJD being somethign goth.
As for being goth, the word in itself is an often misrepresentation of what actual "gothic" culture is. It's a very broad term used for a similar way of thinking and artistic expression as opposed to going "oh you like horror so you must be goth". I actually dont' like most horror films, so you can't really use society's lable of what is goth as what it really actually is. Basically my .02 is I might have purple hair and someone is going to give me a lable even though I might contradict what that lable actually truly means. So yeah, for main society labelling anything punk, goth, loli, bjd's, nerd, etc, I usually have the attitude of screw' em and be happy being me and expressing myself as me and meeting cool open like minded people because I can't stick my interests and personality 100% in a labled box

Also bands like Ali Project I was quite ecstatic to see her with BJD associations, I think her work is jawdroppingly beautiful. Another band which makes me think alot about BJD's is Dresden Dolls. "Coin Operated Boy" had me laughing good and hard when I first heard it and I LOVE that song.

ok, my post is very very long lol

 

Yeah, I think everyone's spot-on with the Lolita and the dollfie community being closely linked. There are a lot of lolita/goth outfits for dolls, and much like those American Girl dolls, it's fun to dress like your doll.

Also, I think that the 'anatomically correct' part freaks people out as well - at least here in America, since some times anatomically correct = erotic, so some people see them as a fetish.

There's also a thing called the "uncanny valley," a valley where you can perceive something as 'human' or 'not human' and something that looks too human but is not falls into the valley (i.e. people are creeped out by whatever's in the valley). AI robots sometimes fall into the uncanny valley, but some of the point of grafting skin on a robot is to raise it from the uncanny valley of creepiness (where people won't interact with it) to somewhere on the 'it's sort of human' plane. Dolls definitely fall into the valley for many people, especially BJD's, because while not baby dolls or overly-exaggerated dolls, they're thin, with realistic human facial features, and look half human/sometimes half anime character. That's part of the reason I think people call dolls creepy, and people who own creepy things generally gain the traits of their things (i.e. someone who has a cool sports car, without even talking to them, could be regarded as cool).

Personally, I've never liked dolls apart from possibly BJD's, and enjoy taking pictures of them/dressing them up, and while I think they're pretty, everyone else is entitled to their opinion.

 

I tend to think 'stereotype' is a condition fabricated by media to easily classify something to the populace. Hence unrelated things tend to be lumped together into a category, like Goth and BJDs. That is when media displays ignorance and is guilty of misrepresentation. Of course Goth exists in the BJD world, but it does not encompass the BJD world.

 

The doll community will always have to deal with this stereotype i'm afraid, but stereotypes are all over the shop arent they? If your a sportsman/jock arent you assumed to be dumb regardless of how smart you may be, because after all if you excel in something doesnt that close you off somewhat? If you are a girl dont you just like pink things, baking and needlepoint? (lolz needlepoint) of course not, but these are just stereotypes after all and its how we make an impression on people when we first meet them that makes all the difference doesnt it?
If you have other things going on in your life though, favourite author, holiday destination, or have a social life outside the world of dolls then you dont need to bow to that odd stereotype then do you?
Speaking personally, as an anime fan and someone who enjoys dolls i know that there are stereotypes, but i kind of like that though, its like were all in the same boat our brethren have the good minds to get us all together and discuss such matters.
So in a way i rather enjoy our stereotype, as it makes all like a clique, a club, a group of friends, doesnt it?

 

When looking at various doll sites, I've noticed that a large majority of the model dolls are dressed with a decided goth/lolita flair. Granted, marketing caters to popular tastes, but I think it also has an influence on bjd's image. Goth/lolita fashion is eye-catching and dramatic, which makes for good advertising because the image stays with you. Is this largely responsible for the stereotyping the uninitiated place on bjd's and their owners? Unlikely but perhaps it influences the pr some, especially with today's heavy reliance on the internet for information, reliable or otherwise.

I've been in love with dolls for all my life, and ridiculed for it at many points along it. Even when it was a fascination for the conventional Barbie doll, it was considered immature and unnatural. Recently, I... err, "came out" ( of all the things I could be closeted about in my life, this one is the most amusing) to my supervisor about my bjd fascination and my plans to finally buy one. I could see the hesitation in her eyes, but I pressed on to explain my appreciation of their aesthetics. I've shared examples of my artwork with her before, and she knows that I'm generally an "artsy-fartsy" person. Like others have mentioned, I think it eased her to see bjds as an artform. She was likely finding it odd for someone to spend vast amounts of money and enthusiasm over "a simple toy". I've run into the same problem with ppl seeing anime as "simply a cartoon".

Although I intend to play with my Hong quite a lot once he finally arrives...

So I guess what I'm taking too long to say is... yes, you can ignore the stereotypers, but you can also educate them. Take a leaf from the LBGT community and practise safe enlightenment.

One last note... just yesterday, one of my roommates made an oblique dig about how much money I was spending on my latest obsession. Admittedly, I was gushing about my Hong-to-be, but she'd been gushing about a bunch of cgi aliens she'd created in a free software game. She said something about her obession being free at least. To which I retorted that after spending that much money, one was entitled to a healthy dose of squeeing.

 

Well, you will always be judged by the things you like and those judging usually don't understand a thing on what they are judging you for. It's not just a bjd thing, so i do think maybe you are caring too much about it that's why it's bothering you so.

I know all typed of people in the hobbie, from the gothic types, teenagers to the 30 year old, married with kids, and i can tell you that the majority are older women around their 30s with career & family.

 

Doesn't every hobby have a bad reputation/stereotype through the eyes of 'out siders'.

I'll try to put this as simply as I can.

There are many of us that have to put up with the stero-types that don't fit us, every day.
This is common sense, and widely known. Inside, and out of hobbies, Some times looks, some times race, some times gender etc.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxWJY7fOAW8&feature=related
I like anime, but incredibly, not to much.
I don't go to cons, I don't cosplay.
Yet, being in this 'doll fandom' or what ever you would like to call it. I just have to put up with the fact, some people may think I have anime posters plastered all over my walls. As well as other stereotypical doll related subjects.

Also, there's the whole 'Dolls are for girly-girls' un-dieing stereotype every one has to put up with, whether they are simply a man, or a tomboy-girl they have to deal with it.
[And explain that they are indeed, not girly.]

Now, Obviously, not to many people particularly enjoy being stereotyped.
How ever, it happens. There's hardly any way to stop it, accept for telling a person that its not 'just a goth thing' or what ever your woes may be.
Mind you, that is still only one person.[Or maybe even if you tell a handful of people. Its still highly insignificant.] Seeing as how we populate, its hard for people to not stereotype while growing up, probably due to lack of knowledge or ignorance. Some times, this changes as a person gets older, some times it dose not. As well as on some topics, a person may be understanding/empathetic other topics, not so much. Despite their 'understanding' levels.

I think for the most part, ultimately stereotypes can be un-dieing and ever changing.
Whether you want to complain about it here is for the most part irrelevant, as people will continue to have their own thought on every matter of life.

If you think you are in the wrong hobby, then why not leave. On the other hand, If you have strong feelings for this hobby it really shouldn't matter about every one else.
If things still bother you, then perhaps you will forever be 'in the wrong place' because your to afraid of what people think of you. As more then likely people will see you in the light they want to see you in. The reasons are their own.
My apologizes if this seemed harsh, I wasn't sure how to 'soften the blow'.

Side/justification note: 'Gothic lolita' seems to be most popular term for use of lolita's in general. [Which can be stero-typical.] 'Sweet lolita', and 'white lolita' look so cute carrying around dolls. Considering Lolita is pretty much means 'little girl' <some times from a specific time line era.> [Though I understand most people don't even consider the 'little girl' part of lolita, they just consider it 'a fashion from Japan'.+Street fashion, old school visual kei bands etc etc. ] Though, it makes sense that a little girl from that era would be carrying around a teddy bear or doll. Hence, why some[most?] lolita's have them.

[Some thing I'd like to point out as well is, goths are usually plucked up and used as some thing 'interesting' 'Ooh look at the freaky goth' etc etc. Also, some people find 'scary' things exciting/thrilling[/beautiful]. 'Out of the norm'. *shrug*]

Sorry for being a bother.

PS: I don't believe any one can truly be 'Normal' try as they might.
Every one can be seen as 'strange' when you really deeply think about it an pull apart every little detail of a nature. [That makes sense in my head.]
Bland, on the other hand. That can be done.

 

hey! i do.. well minus the pink thing, and dresses. HATE wearing dresses. i love baking and cooking too, if you go hungry at out house, it's your own fault, because there's always something around. i crochet too, and garden, and paint. and i actually LIKE cleaning the house.
i quilt too! and i also play ddr, go to anime cons and raves, and own a knee-length rainbow coat.

(my gramma keeps saying i'd make some man a nice wife, if only men today were still looking for girls with actual household skills. )

never did play with dolls as a kid, although mom kept buying them and i kept hiding them in the attic under the christmas stuff. then all of a sudden in college i saw a barbie in the goodwill one day that just looked so... sad, and nekkid, so i took her home and gave her a dress to make bob mackie weep, and then gave her to the neighbor kid, who STILL loves her to death.

7 years later, i'm still doing it, except with bigger dolls and soft sculpture, and costumes for real people...

and now i'm thinking of spending a massive chunk of cash on a vampire hunter d look-alike doll or a little teeny bundle of cuteness... whichever i can save up for first. (i think it was called a puki somethingorother, but when i finally find out WHICH puki thingy he was, he shall someday be mine, and he shall have purple eyes, and a tiny, tiny jareth costume and a big fluff of brian froud style spiky twisty fairy hair..)

except that he's prolly gonna be crazy expensive too.

it never ends.

i'm also a sculptor tho, and do a lot of tiny modelwork in sculpey and a bunch of random meduims. mostly objects and scenes and figurines tho, so i can appreciate the time, effort and skill that goes into making something look so eerily human, and yet so gorgeous, and also as functional as some of these dolls are.

and i blame Mana for making G-loli into a "j-rock" thing. G-loli a very rule-bound fashion trend that forms a clique in its very existence, while the other loli genres are very different and have looser classifications.

there are soooo many horrible stereotypes for so many things. the ones concerning BJD owners i've heard a little about because of meeting people who have them at cons, and hearing stories of how they and their dolls get disrespected and made fun of, even by congoers.

yes, the grown woman dressed as inuyasha just made the scoffing "wtf dude look at those freaks" glare at the happy dollie peoples standing there chatting about their resin kids. con etiquette is thus: if you're weird enough to dress in a costume, or use the word "kawaii" in actual conversation, you have no right to look down on ANYONE, especially not people with dolls wearing better made costumes than yours.

............... i have no idea where my main train of thought went on this, i think it's somewhere near detroit by now, sorry
need to stop posting at 2am...

 

Maybe I'm just being oversensitive but I couln't help but get a little pang of sadface at all the "OMG Why do people think I'm goth, don't ever associate me with that!"



I'm what classifies as goth. Everybody would easily describe me that way and so that's how I describe myself. Labels seem to piss a lot of people off but I think they make life easier. It's a quick descriptor that calls up a mental image. If I say, "Oh, she's the sporty short girl" that's WAY easier than saying "She usually wears jogging capri pants, jogging hoodies, and sneakers and she always has a gym bag, she's 5' 1" tall... etc."

Don't get me wrong, I wear blue jeans occasionally and my hair is blonde at the moment, but I am usually walking about personifying the goth aesthetic. And I'm not so naïve as to think that people won't assume things about me based on my black lacy skirts, striped socks, and platform buckle coots. Funnily enough, my favourite colour is pink, and I really really dislike goth music and the whole goth scene in general. Other than a few superficial similarities(BJD, clothes, scary movies) I have nothing really in common with my fellow self-proclaimed goths in general.

But I DO understand that people will make assumptions about me. Do I get mad? I used to. It used to really piss me off that people thought I was a satanist, or loved Tim Burton sooooo much, or listen to Sisters of Mercy! Now, I'm a lot more, "Meh," about the whole thing. More like, "So what?" I got tired of being angry. I figure it simply goes hand in hand with the outfits I love.

People just make assumptions. You can't really do too much about it. But why does it matter if people think you are goth? They'd be totally wrong, but it's not like they think you beat up puppies or steal things. They probably just think you dress in black on the weekends and listen to spooky darkwave in your room.

Hahaha... probably what they think about me!

I like BJDs because they're beautiful, and seem strangely human, and you can project yourself onto them. That being said, a lot of the ghost/vampire dolls REALLY freak my stuff out! That aesthetic is really not my thing even though many would assume it is!

Anyway, just popping in to put in my $0.02... Don't hate on the goths, yo!

Also, the main sterotype I've heard is that of the aging overweight creepy female doll owner who either lives alone or in her parents basement and is a total shut-in and socially awkward. Compared to that stereotype I think I'd rather be assumed to be goth!

I think it's just because when people write articles or film reports, the "smart" reporter always goes for the weirdest (and therefore most interesting) interview candidates! Let's face it, the viewing public would rather see the woman talking in a singsong doll voice to the camera and then assuring the camera that her dolls are the current incarnations of her soulmates from her 7 past lives as really famous people. Rather than see a really articulate young woman talk knowledgably about the history of BJDs and how they are a creative outlet for many people. It's sad, but true. *sigh*

Augh, I wrote another essay! Apparently I'm way too verbose tonight! GAH!

 

I never realised there was a goth/creepy doll owner stereotype.
Luckily for me, I've already been boxed into a creepy goth stereotype so adding the doll part won't make much of a difference
I myself don't consider myself goth, but wearing dark colours and leather collars and having a dark sense of humour gives strangers and acquaintances that idea. I don't even think they understand what 'goth' is (tbh I don't fully understand it either, because it's not my thing) but people like to classify things they don't understand, and I get the "are you goth???" thing a lot, or being called a goth outright.
It doesn't bother me one bit. The people who ask/say those things don't know me, and I don't know them, so I couldn't care less, and more often than not it amuses me. The people who know you best and care about you will never lump you into a stereotype, and those are the people who really matter, not some random person that pulls a weird face at you if you're out walking with your doll or partaking in other doll related activities

 

At 54, I am decidedly NOT goth, but frankly, I like the association of BJDS with the goth/anime/magna movement. When I tell people I am into dolls, they immediately think Barbies or the cute little porcelain dolls with chubby cheeks, etc. So when I say the words, "Goth, Manga, anime, Asian culture" etc., I can see something light up in their eyes and they know it's something different - something somehow darker and more grown-up and more interesting than just a middle-age woman who collects cute little baby dolls. I like the fact that they appeal to all ages and all kinds of people and are not restricted to any one type of person, yet we can all come together and share common experiences, regardless of how we are dressed, how old we are, etc.

 

just to comment on what is stated above. Why is it that to people gothic is a negative stereotype? I agree being stereotyped at all is annoying, but if someone comes up and asks me if I'm goth I take it as a compliment as most of the people I've met that are considered "gothic" are people that are very intelligent, articulate, successful and highly artistic.

But I agree with above, even the western view in the media of what is lolita is very much not what the fashion is most of the time. So maybe it's a dolls = weird horror thing that I've seen the reaction, but I've seen that more in the "you're a nerd" stereotype than anything else.

 

This is another point I agree with. Why take it as an insult? I'm sure it's not meant as such... They aren't calling you stupid or lazy, they're misinterpreting your behaviour and calling you "goth". They just think you like different things than you actually like...

When people take being called goth as an insulting thing, then I end up feeling sorta insulted, like you're implying that dressing how I dress is a bad thing...

 

I don't find being called a goth insulting to me, but I think it's insulting to the gothic subculture. Labelling something outright with a label you don't understand is ignorant. There is nothing wrong with being a goth. I didn't mean to imply that if it seemed like I did in my previous post - I have friends who are goths and were goths at various stages of life and they're all good people, and more accepting than most. I admire them because they look so comfortable and darkly sophisticated. But I don't think it's right or fair to label a yellow rose and a dandelion in the same group. That's right, I'm a freaking dandelion
There is also, I think, a difference between the 'gothic stereotype' and people who are actually part of the gothic subculture. All stereotyping tends to cast negative light on a particular group and pulls in anything that looks like it could be on the fringe of it, when really those people who are actually part of that group, by far and large are decent people who are just like anyone else but with different interests.

 

I know people who call people Goth like it's bad thing... for some reason it comes with implications of Satan-worshipping and killing people.

Nearly everyone tried to talk me out of wearing excessive amounts of black in middle and high school and the bratty little kids I tutored were convinced I'd shank them one of these days (though this confuses me as much as the people who say "OMG your doll's gonna kill me in my sleep!" If you think something's gonna KILL YOU, isn't it better for your health not to PISS THEM OFF?! You wouldn't run up to a wild tiger and kick it in the face, would you?). Though now I wear excessive amounts of camouflage print and no one seems to think anything of it...

Though I found it hilarious that one day my boss was wearing all black and some parent came in and asked "DID SOMEONE DIE?!" thinking she was wearing all black for a funeral... I don't really get it. Her wearing black = funeral (it wasn't like she never wore any black.) and me wearing black = Goth.