Forgiveness (do we forgive companies too easily or rather the opposite)

Yukito- You mean the conversation on her link? I don't find it agressive either, she have right to show her tag as other people are free to use the boycott Leeke tag. I don't understand what was not correct.. I don't see the "angry Püns folks" as insulting or aggressive. People that boycott Leeke are angry of the plagiat story so its not like we tell you about something new.. (Ca t'irais mieu de t'expliquer avec moi en francais via pm?)

And petitefilou - Doa moderator ask us to discuss this conversation on this thread to not change the subject of other threads as the Mikhaila one by exemple.

 

You can actually take that up with DoA mods I think, if you want sig pictured banned. I also think, since -I'm- the person who made the tag (which as I said I publicly posted because others buying Mikhaila wanted it and to know if it was available) I would know what the tag is for. I've also never said I'm against a petition, I just felt people should be free to have their own signs. Remember days ago we didn't know Mikhaila would be on-topic, so it seems rude to make a Mikhaila banner that people liked but wouldn't be able to use here on DoA.

I made the tag, I know what it's for, as do other people using it. If you don't like it please take it up with DoA mods, this is not the place to voice your disapproval of other people's signatures. Please try to keep your comments relevant, if they don't add anything to the conversation, perhaps they're best left out.

And the 'angry Pun's folk' was just a joke, since I myself am a Pun lover which I thought was widely know by many of the people on the Mikhaila thread, who all knew I wasn't planning on posting till things calmed down. I didn't want people following me (as many people did to my Devi page) to follow me into the Mikhaila support page and be disruptive.

 

Spot on Little_Fox_Lady!! Thank you so much for this!!! And I love your more recent post as well (on pg 9).
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Well, considering some of the appalling behavior I've seen from other companies, this little 'knee-jerk lie' really seems like a non-issue to me. Yeah, it was stupid. Yeah, lying is wrong. But I can understand that there are a bunch of reasonable explanations for WHY Leeke felt pushed into a lie. And I've already forgiven them for it. That's my choice and I have every right to feel that way. And others have every right to be mad at them for lying.

 

Little_lady_fox

Aren't they (the sign) against the D.D supporters? Because this was what I also understood (don't see any agression here, it's really a question )

I read also that you think some D.D supporters said that it was morally wrong to buy Mikhaila. Personally I haven't seen that, they say that is morally wrong from leeke to imitate a doll, try hide evidences and tell lies. Not to buy a doll for Mikhaila's lovers... but I might haven't read every posts

Anyhow, for me this has to calm down, and it will very shortly I'm sure. Provocation on both "sides" and so on...

 

Queen0fSpades > no no, just the post, not the conversation.
And i didn't find it really agressive (well, just a little with "angry folks", cause every Püns lovers don't act this way), but that it encourages the debate ^^'
(Mon anglais n'est pas parfait, je suis très vite limitée niveau vocabulaire et expression, désolée u_u)

Fox Lady > you're missing my point of view.
i was just saying that, even if members asked you the sig, it was not the right thread to link it.
You can have this banner, but i'd prefer not to see any banners anymore, neither boycott ones nor pear ones.
I won't be answering about that sig anymore, i was trying to be nice, just pointing a tiny thing, but i'm a little irrated by your answer tone.
And i didn't read a joke in angry folks ^^'

 

Could you please explain? Everything I have read from D.D themselves has been extremely polite and well thought out. The only lies I have seen have been from Leeke. Leeke clearly lied by saying the never saw D.D's work when clearly the picture was on the table. That is an action I cannot easily forgive. If D.D were the ones lying to prove their point, than that isn't right either. So, if they are, I would like to know.

 

firefly

She is angry at D.D because they said that leeke would ruin their company, at least this is what I understood, Fox you'll tell me if I'm wrong ^_^

At least this might have been a little exagerated yes, but what, haven't you ever said dramatic / exagerated things? I did

And well I won't put the PM I've received from leeke but they are kind of dramatic too ^^

(please forgive my poor english -___-)

 

I don't think I have anything left to say, as I've answered all the questions put to me even if people are choosing to ask them again rather than read my posts in this thread. I don't want this thread to be hijacked by people who want to badger me over my words, that isn't what this is for.

Hobbysue and Kelaria, I'm so happy to have been able to hop in and give you guys support. ^ ^

 

Honestly i hope the situation with Leeke gets sorted soon, because at least then people don't have to worry whether their doll will be a stigma or not. It is not the doll owners fault that this has happened. But i do agree with what people have said and the lies from Leeke are wrong. I can see why Dust of Dolls is upset because it must be really hard to get known in the hobby especailly for an artist like themselves. I think i empathize as an artist.

I think the longer that Leeke drag it out, the less likely people will forgive them for lying about the situation because people do know that they did see D.D.s doll pun before hand because plenty of people knew they where next to each other at a doll convention. But i know someone said they forgive a company if they did something once, but not twice. Leeke have been know to copy a design in the past.

 

I didn't wanted to say anything wrong... I just looove so much debating... that's my little deffect. But I allways respect the one I have in front of me.

 

Yeah, and I totally understand why Dust of Dolls is upset. But honestly the whole dramatic "we're ruined!" thing was off-putting for me too. If anything, they're saved by this. They have gotten SO much publicity from this whole mess and a TON of new customers that may have never heard of them if it weren't for this situation.

I don't see Leeke dragging anything out. They haven't sent me any messages about it (even though I'm a member of their site) and I only heard about it through a post on Dairyland. I think it's the supporters that are dragging it out.

 

But they didn't know this would bring them new supporters and future costumers when they posted their reply... you can't blame them for publicity they are not responsable off...they couldn't guess it, when they wrote this they were sad and angry but they remained very calm... well at least this is what I think ^^

 

@ QueenofSpades - Yeah, you're right, I remember the mods linking it actually, now that I think about it I've just been following this argument since the original Mikhaila thread, I guess all the tension in a normally calm internet space has made me a little frazzled with the whole thing. I may have over-reacted to seeing it, as i saw it, keep spilling into other threads I had already been watching.

I apologise, however, and I think people do need to get it out of their systems so I guess it might as well be here

 

I'm siding with Dust of Dolls on this. As an artist, I know how hard it is to get notice in the professional field. For a relatively small company, this is a major blow.

 

As someone with no irons in this fire -- would never buy either doll -- it depends where you're doing the yelling. Some of us are irritated by red splashy signature icons that jump out at us in completely unrelated threads. That's not even censorship, that's just saying some of us are irritated, which I think makes those icons counterproductive. Saying something is annoying isn't saying that other people can't express their opinions, it's saying I'd prefer they'd do it in a different way. Of course, there's zero requirement for them to listen to me! But if you're going to put attention-getting signature icons in, you shouldn't be very surprised to get some attention over it, wanted or otherwise.

Forgiveness is such an individual thing, and this debate is proof of it. Some people can't forgive Leeke for allegedly copying, some can't forgive them for allegedly lying, some can't forgive Dust of Dolls for things they've allegedly said. I don't think people should try to pressure or even dictate to others what they can or can't forgive, can or can't support. However, they're completely free to disagree with any of those things. And I don't see that EITHER side has been made to shut up.

 

I think it's enough that the issue with Leeke was brought to light and people are told about it; it's not necessary to show a 'boycott badge' like some sort of angry activist. Yes, it's hard for artists to get recognised and have their designs stolen often, but I do think artists need to learn how to be more business savvy, in order to market their work intelligently and 'get it out there'. When major companies like Leeke are stealing their designs, then from this experience they have gained exposure - I think that's not altogether a negative thing. If I were in their shoes, I would put this incident behind me and move quick to produce some highly appealing dolls while the publicity is still hot, so I can get my products out there to my prospective clients. While capital investment could be an issue, at least keep people posted on upcoming projects. It's not altogether a lost deal. People should just move on. Flashing political badges isn't going to help.

Forgiveness comes when the guilty party makes an apology and acts on it. For people who stole thousands of dollars and vanished, I would only forgive them if they returned the money and apologised. Shouldn't that be the way? In the real world most established laws operate upon this principle, as do most religions. Forgiveness needs to be earned. But I wouldn't force my belief onto other people.

But that's just my 0.02.

 

I think things will calm down soon, I have to admit I was pretty flabbergasted about the whole thing.

Fact is, Mikhaela is an adorable doll and she's on sale so people should buy her if they want.
If the time comes that Leeke admits their mistake their will be other forms of compensation besides destroying these dolls.

I feel like people on both sides have been getting pretty hot on this debate, including myself. But that's the problem with text, it really just doesn't portray emotion so people can over-analyze many things. I think everyone here is fighting for what they think is the good. Let's just leave this to D.D and Leeke and privately make our own choices behind the scenes. c:

edit: Also, fox, Keilara, Hobbysue, etc. I hope none of you take your fights personally so that you can go on as fellow companion doll collectors, I feel a lot of segregation here that shouldn't of happened. If you can or can't forgive Leek please forgive one another, okay?

 

Don't worry everdusk! I'm a pretty forgiving person for the most part! I had a pretty heated argument with a fellow member on another thread that resulted in the mods getting involved and a few posts being deleted! But I really don't have a problem with the girl I was arguing with anymore and quite frankly I'd really like to just get along!! Truth be told I'm a pretty non-confrontational person and I don't like conflict. I may debate hard and get frustrated, but at the end of the day I just want everyone to get along! I'm a lover not a fighter!!

 

I don't have an issue, at the end of the day, it's a doll. This isn't a life or death situation. I'm not a Leeke supporter as such, I don't currently have one of their dolls. I just hate the instant cry of copying followed by boycott. I've seen it happen so often in this hobby and I really find it tiresome.

 

I do admit i had not heard of Dust of Dolls before this had happened. I had seen one of their sculpts before, but because it didn't appeal to me i didn't take notice. But i can see why they think something like this would ruin them. Because if you saw two similar products and one was from a company that was more well known. Then you would be more tempted by the more well known one because in a way your trust them more. Especially if there is a lot of money involved.

Plus i think in this case before the kick off then people would have more likely seen the Leeke one rather then the Dust of Dolls one because more people go on the Leeke site then the Dust of Dolls one. In all honestly i think Leeke was hoping because they where a bigger company that no one would notice, or not believe the other side because of how big they are compared to the artist company.

I know of a similar case where a friend of a friend makes wigs, and she had a wig design for a little while, but was very well known. She had the copyrights sorted and everything. Then when a big company made the wig, people where having a go at her for stealing the design. And it was quite bad at the time. My friend had to help her fight her case and in the end the company gave her credit for the wig. But at first people assumed that she was in the wrong because people had not heard of her.

I think it is too soon to tell whether this will do Dust of Dolls good or bad, yes more people have heard of them. But it depends whether they side with Leeke or not. Because i have heard some people say that DoDs are trying to claim they out the pear shape etc. and are saying they are wrong and that there is enough differences and they want attention etc. I think if Leeke admitted they copied, they would be more popular. But i think it is a case of time will tell if it is either going to damage them or do them good. Either way i think it is going to have an impact on DoDs.

Also if they would not have kicked up a fuss i think Leeke would have made money off the pear shaped doll and the DoD doll would have just faded in the background. If they truly believe that Leeke stole their idea, they have everyright to kick up a fuss about it. As an artist if someone stole my idea and i thought they were going to profit on it. I would feel sore, hard done to and very upset and would have also kicked up a fuss.