Forgiveness (do we forgive companies too easily or rather the opposite)

karla-chan: I can see the issue from that point and yes, it's probably as well that they drew attention to the fact. Had it been pointed out as calmly and rationally, I would have agreed. I doubt if anyone would argue that the Leekeworld doll has obviously been influenced by Puns. My major problem has been with where they want to go from there. I think a 'please explain' to Leeke rather than boycotts and flaming on the Q&A would have done more to sort out the issue and a simple explanation of the incident posted in the news would have informed people better.

 

I have been thinking about the Leek debate and I find that this particular case is a tough one. Although I sympathize with the hurt feelings of the artists I also know that copyrighting every idea is bad as well. It's one thing to flat out copy and another to be inspired by. The fuzzy line between the two is hard to define and should be left to the buyer to decide if no laws were broken. A pear shaped body does not belong to D.D and I do feel that the style of their dolls is different enough from the Leek doll to not be a direct copy.

The reason I am disappointed with Leek has more to do with the way they handled the whole issue. If they just said, YES we were totally inspired by "X" but we added our own unique touch" I would have respected them more. For example, if you look at any art movement you will find many artist's works are sometimes difficult to distinguish from one another. They ping pong ideas around to one another all the time! Picasso and Braque are good examples. But the fact the they used the D.D doll as a base for their design and than accused D.D of coping turned me off.

For me personally...and this is very personal, I think the chain of events in this case leaves me with a bad feeling. Leek has more production power than a small artist studio and certainly will undercut D.D. Although I don't think Leek did anything horrific and I don't believe they should be banned, I do feel that they have shown a lack of integrity as a company in this episode. The question of all out "copying" remains in a gray zone, so my decision to buy or not buy from Leek will be made in the privacy of my home and enforced by my wallet rather than calling for a forum wide boycott.

 

I do see your point with that actually. But I haven't seen that side yet. The main thing i have seen is this -> http://dustofdolls.free.fr/ where they do seem calm. But i have not idea what has been said since. It could have got nastier for all i know. I know there has been flaming and boycotts from the fans i have seen that. But i have not seen any from the company.

 

I went to their site and it is too bad that they are focusing all their effort on Leek and not the beauty of their dolls. I can't even find the link to figure out how to order from them. If I wanted to support their cause I would buy a doll or pre-order of something! Maybe they should change their site to something more positive about their work and provide easy to access information on how to acquire their dolls? Just a thought...

PUNS are beautiful and special dolls!

 

This is part of the problem I think though: Dust of Dolls has no way to preorder their dolls. They make very tiny batches of their dolls and then sell them at doll shows I think, and since these doll shows take place on a completely different continent than I live on, it's almost impossible for me to obtain. I understand they're upset, but saying "We won't be able to sell any of our dolls because Leeke has copied our doll and stole our business!".... they're not selling their dolls because they aren't even making them for the most part.

 

Confused? Who are you quoting? ---"We won't be able to sell any of our dolls because Leeke has copied our doll and stole our business!"--- is this an earlier post I missed?

I dug around their site and saw in the discussion that they are trying to make the dolls available! Good news. I just think they should make their splash page about how fans can someday acquire a doll. They are giving Leek too much free advertising.

 

It's not a direct quote. Dust of Dolls has been afraid of losing business over this, and I don't think that's the case. I was merely saying that they would probably have business if they had more dolls to sell or did orders. But if they're saying their dolls will be more available, I'd say that's a step in the right direction.

 

Personally he Puns are not to my taste. But i agree i decided to have a look at their other dolls, but it took me ages to even find pictures of them. I think they should make their site look more positive yes.

 

I showed my hubby photos of both Puns and Mikhaila last night and he had NO IDEA the dolls were even similar (except for the hips). That said a lot to me since he is not into dolls at all (he just appreciates my love for my dolls and supports me on it). I kinda explained it all to him and was talking about how Dust of Dolls was pretty unknown before and that they have so much more publicity now and he pointed out that the only way this situation would "destroy Dust of Dolls" is because they wouldn't be able to handle the influx of new customers because they're such a small company and that only if they LET it destroy them.

I didn't go to the website because I just don't feel like looking at their stuff after all this drama. I hate to say it, but the supporters' attitudes is the reason why. If I liked Puns I probably would click on it, but she doesn't appeal to me at all and so I doubt their other sculpts will either.

It's really a poor choice on their part to focus so much of their website on this issue. If they want it on there, post a small, but easy to see notice about it and then focus the rest of the main page (and site) on THEIR dolls. That would be SO much more productive for them.

 

They are currently working on this website that was originally only opened for the issue. Now, they said they will make dolls available, a little amount per month (not this month but very soon) on their website. That will surely be made this WE because they want to be in a more positive and great mood.

And again, regarding the publicity you say they have now, how could they ever imagine that this affair would have turned this way? They coudn't guess it, and it can be good or bad, we don't know for the moment how this will turn out for them. And even if they can't made the doll available for everybody (you can't even imagine how administration facts are complexes in France... I don't know for the other countries, but here is terrible) it's not a reason for leeke to take this "heavy inspiration".

Kelaria: and I've done the same with people that are not into dolls either (and that weren't of course aware of the situation). My mom, dad, brother, some friends and a little girl said all that they looked very much alike so that depends on how people are looking at it

 

Isenn- I feel the same as you, its just hard for me to find the perfect words. Thank you^^

Esthy - When they will make theyre website, do you mind showing us the link on this thread so we can take a look and help to share ? I always follow the saying on this thread and i'd be glad to make a link for them in my signature

 

QueenOfSpades We will do it in the Püns topic HERE

 

So tags aren't appropriate on this site, but for Dust of Dolls to come into a room discussing them objectively and repost a link of what is clearly already printed on DoA, is? I think it's not appropriate for D.D. to be in here making comments like these, when they're comments are all over their own personal website, and Flickr, where people such as HobbySue and myself aren't welcome with our opinions, as it's been clearly made known.

This place was to discuss our willingness or unwillingness to forgive a company, not for D.D. to come in and try to back-peddle when their 'exaggeration' or, lies as most people like to call them, are blunted pointed out to the community and poorly defended by their supporters, who've so far done little more than blame shift by telling others here that they're morally wrong.

I won't further comment on this, but I thought someone should be able to point it out, before this thread becomes another where people who believe objectively are no longer welcome.

 

To be honestly we are clearly talking about them as a company, in a way they have a right to comment and say their part. If you over heard some people talk about you, and some of the things they said weren't quite right. You would go over and say something.

 

I hope you would provide support before calling someone a liar. You don't have all the evidence, and DD has made clear that they aren't going to release all of the emails Leeke sent them. DD has the right to explain their words, given that English is not their first language. Any student of a foreign language knows it can be difficult to find the proper words and idioms to get ones point across. I'm glad DD has spoken their piece here. Maybe we can get some closure now.

Furthermore, your statement that "most people like to call them (lies)," also lacks support. The argument here has been split evenly. Evenly =/= "most"

It's not reasonable to call yourself "objective" when you've said you are buying the doll. You have a physical and emotional investment which precludes objectivity.

And as for the tags, if anyone is having a problem with them, they can just right click on the tag/banner and select the option that blocks the image source site. That's what I did! No more ugly red and white banners.

 

Agreed. I'm so livid over this whole issue. Similar things have happened in the art-world-- where a famous artist has taken a lesser-known artist's work, redrawn/colored it, and made a profit from it. It's infuriating.

 

Basically this is where I stand. Every person has the right to decide how much copying or imitating affects them. Obviously some of my comments on Flickr were deemed offensive. I didn't intend them to be so. I was simply trying to point out that from what I could see in the photos, Mikhaila had a different aesthetic/feel/appeal to Puns. My personal opinion.

I also don't see the problem in posting links for people to see the issues. That is what a debate is about. Let people know the facts and make their own mind up.

Would this issue stop me from buying from either company in the future - no. Would a similar issue stop me from buying from a company - no. Would how Leekeworld or Dust of Dolls handled this matter stop me from buying from them in the future - no. I am making a business transaction. I want to know when the product will be shipped and the quality it will be.

 

I am not buying either doll and don't intend to (that body type doesn't appeal to me), so my opinion is objective and I agree with pretty much everything that Little_Fox_Lady has said.

This.

 

The body type doesn't appeal to me either, so I won't be buying Puns or Mikhaila, either. But your objectivity and mine is beside the point. LFL was referring to herself and another who had bought Puns not being welcome in this thread.

She wrote this:

So besides not being objective, Little_Fox_Lady's statement is erroneous. Objective viewpoints are certainly welcome in this thread, and I can't think of any threads on DOA that have been limited to non-objective viewpoints. If that's really a problem she should take it up with the mods.

 

Isn't that the fun of opinions though?

And I seriously doubt Little_Fox_Lady meant what you seem to think she did. But I'll leave it up to her to clarify.