Forgiveness (do we forgive companies too easily or rather the opposite)

I completely agree with you Taco. I realize that there are many people who can't see differences between the bodies and therefore firmly believe that Leeke's is a copy. However, to me the differences are glaring and I agree that I prefer Mikhaila's sculpting to Puns (not just in body, but in face) especially her chest portion where the jointing is curved around her bust (something that Puns definitely does not have). Although neither of them truly appeal to me because that body type just isn't my style.

Algesiras, it does bother me a bit your insinuation that D.D sculpted Mikhaila's body when it's clear that they did not. Although, to be fair, it's clear to me, but I guess it might not be as clear to you... but still that insinuation is a pretty serious one.

 

To answer the actual topic's question.

Me personally? Long wait times I can forgive of course if there is good communication.
As long as the company replies to mails and doesn't make up lies over and over (like fake tracking) I can be patient. I know that there are serious hold ups sometimes. I go through it with my own TINY shop (supplies taking weeks longer than promised to arrived) So I can only imagine how that can get on a larger scale. Say they are out of a resin type etc. All I ask is honesty I don't need to know much just, hey we are out of this/theres a hold up, theres going to be a x amount of wait.

Custom house just seemed to up and ignore people and that scared me off enough to not order from them ever. 6 months is fine for a wait, a YEAR is not to me anyway.

So far I think CH is the only big company I'm too scared to deal with. Soom was fine for the one doll I ordered from them, volks was always wonderful for everything, luts, ndoll, leeke, never had even one issue with.

I honestly can't think of any companies that I have had a bad time with, there's been little snags but I'm ok with them. So I'd say I go by case by case, I try not to get too upset about things and see where the company is coming from. As long as there is good communicating and they are straight with me I'm fine with them!

Also wanted to add, if they send the wrong items, and it was obviously their mistake, I just don't want to jump through hoops to get an exchange. I don't need an apology, just an easy way to exchange (sorry for the long windedness just trying to stear back on topic ^___^)

 

Already answered to that in my answer to Taco, please stop playing on words: We all know Leeke technically sculpted the Mikhaila. And you have the right to prefer Mikhaila and to buy it. It's your choice. ^^

 

When I posted you had not responded to Taco. I will go read your edited post now and see what you said.

ETA: I don't quite understand what you're trying to say by saying "please stop playing on words" I was simply agreeing with Taco. I think I might be misunderstanding your tone in saying that, but I'm a bit insulted by what it feels like you are implying. I wasn't playing with my words, I was stating my opinion. Quite seriously, in fact.

 

Just going back to the broader topic at hand, I was thinking it over and I can list in my head at least one company that I will never buy from again because my doll yellowed SO unevenly. Her arms and feet turned yellow while her torso turned sort of pinkish etc... I totally understand why this happens with different resin batches yet I admit that I was so disappointed that I just sold the doll. I never even considered ordering from them again! Honestly I am not mad/raging at them and that is the weird part. I just quietly gave up on them and never considered visiting their site or checking out new dolls even through I still love their sculpts.

Anyone else feel this strongly about the resin consistency issue? I am curious because it seems to be a rather accepted part of doll ownership yet I was severely let down by the experience. I guess I never "forgave" that company.

 

Isenn: When my Happydoll Dorothy arrived, she was a pricey fullset. She had horrendous seams, her headcap magnet was attached incorrectly so the headcap pushed away from the head, her hands were like claws and she looked like frankendolly. I could even see lumps under her face-up from where the resin hadn't been smoothed out. I had paid over $1000 for her with the Australian exchange rate and I swore never again. Now something like that, I don't change my mind on because the quality of sculpting and finish meant that I didn't like the doll. The yellowing you are discussing sounds like exposure to sunlight. Usually the feet, hands and heads yellow first while the part that is wearing an outfit yellows last. It also sounds like French resin. I try and check whether the dolls I'm buying in French/environmental resin have UV protection. If not, I wouldn't go near them. I know that WS will also yellow similarly. All my dolls are NS now, the yellowing and colour changes just aren't noticeable.

 

It depends on the situation. Some differences between batches are ok with me. However, I would want the individual doll to all be the same color, and while color change is normal, exceptionally fast/bad/uneven yellowing could be a real issue. I know it depends a bit on the resin (French resin yellows faster, for instance) and what the doll is exposed to, but if I had a NS polyurethane resin doll that was not subjected to prolonged exposure to sunlight I would expect color change to take awhile and be fairly minimal. That's actually been the case with my NS dolls -- even the lighter skinned ones haven't yellowed badly. My one BBB dark tan boy is three years old and his color looks as good as the day I got him. Perhaps I've just been lucky? However, as this has been my experience over nearly six years, I expect dolls to not deviate too much from that.

While I wouldn't necessarily be horribly pissed off at the company, if I felt there was a real danger in the doll aging poorly, I would probably avoid buying their dolls in the future.

 

Hobbysue- She was actually not in the sun light at all. I was living in Vancouver at the time and the temperature is very cool and mild with little or no sun. She was in a dark room with a most of her body covered by clothes. Her resin is not advertised as French and she didn't have that translucency that FR has. Different limbs were yellowing at different speeds and with different tints. It was the oddest thing. I think she must have come from several batches of resin and unfortunately the resin just got wonky after about 7 months. In the future I plan to stick to companies that have a good record with resin consistency. There seems to be plenty to chose from.

Taco - Yes I agree about not being horribly pissed off. Strangely enough I wasn't mad, I just figured I had bad luck and ended up selling her off. However, although I was not SUPER mad I never considered buying from them again. All my other dolls are doing great as far as consistent color thank goodness! I must have just been very unlucky that time but it turned me off from that company for good. I do hope they eventually sort out their production because they have pretty dolls.

Anyway, thanks for your responses.

 

Wow, that is really strange. I'd put it under quality problems. Iplehouse had a similar issue with their original real skin dolls 'greening'. I wouldn't buy one until I knew that problem had been fixed, which appears to have happened. I generally try and research about the company and problems before I buy, but that isn't always possible. The waiting rooms are usually the best for shipping issues and the discussion threads for ongoing problems.

 

I expect my doll to be one colour when it arrives and that all parts match. Anything less is poor quality control. I also expect the doll to yellow consistently over the body, so in your case I would have been extremely unhappy about the uneven yellowing and would not purchase from the company again. I also have yellowing expectations, ie that my normal skin urethane dolls yellow at a fairly consistent, slow rate and that my white dolls not turn horrible shades of green quickly.

I was positively livid with Bambicrony over the coloured elves. I bought a blue one during the very first run where the dolls were advertised as colourfast. All of Bambicrony's other dolls up to that point had been urethane. Little did we know that they were all french resin, and horribly unstable french resin at that. I had my doll two weeks, took it out of the box ONCE at night inside, and it still was turning green when I sold it. I had to take a loss on the doll because of the amount of yellowing damage that had taken place in such a short amount of time, and even had to put up with some reactions from other people on DoA basically implying I was a horrible person for being mad at a horrible transaction. To this day, I have not bought anything from Bambicrony and never will.

 

This is the part that I find strange. I know that you are not alone in receiving such a response from others in the community, but still, I don't get it. I don't understand the mindset that insists that a person be happy with inferior goods, and that a person is horrible for expressing a quite reasonable reaction to an inferior product or (in other cases) unprofessional transaction. Yes, it's a hobby, and yes, we're dealing with artists. But artists do have standards to uphold, or the market will pass them by.

 

I totally agree with you sakuraharu and I want to add that they are also businesses making a profit and dealing with customers and their money. I would expect a business to at least attempt to do quality control to make sure situations like Kim's never happen in the first place!! That is their responsibility as a business!

 

I agree with you here. I am not sure why we defend companies when they really drop the ball. I think it has something to do with personal experience and certainly that can vary wildly from transaction to transaction.

Maybe this sounds a bit crazy but I expect better quality from a small shop than a big company. When I say "small" I include all the BJD companies because none of them are big mass producers of anything really. Because they are smaller and their product requires more care to produce I expect attention to detail and quality. The customer service part I am more flexible with because I totally accept that these BJD companies are not some big production house with piles of dolls stacked in a warehouse. I expect them to act professionally, but I understand the wait times and the "orders cannot be canceled" warnings.

When I ordered my Akali, Shinydoll was almost a one man show and his customer service was amazing. The artist is very communicative and you feel that he really cares about his work and the people who buy his dolls. My Akali has had some color change over the years but her resin is even and still beautiful. She came in a simple box but she was well packed and perfectly strung the day she arrived. The site photos were not at all misleading and she poses as well as advertised. Shin runs a professional little shop and as a result he has a loyal customer.

 

I don't blame you one bit for being angry in that situation -- I would've been too, if it were me. That was really extreme to the point of being a faulty product. My NS French resin Unidoll actually took awhile to really get yellow (he's nearly four years old now), and though he is quite yellow at this point, it's really pretty even. There's no reason that should've happened with the Bambicrony elves the way that it did.

 

rkold, I am glad that you don't feel as though your topic has been derailed. I personally feel that this is a hot issue and fits in this thread pretty well.

I have been keeping up with this thread pretty well (I think), and I can totally see where both sides are coming from. Yes, Mikhaila is similar to Puns, but there are also differences. I had been pretty appalled when I saw the initial side-to-side pictures, but after I found out that Puns was a tiny, and Mikhaila was MSD-sized, I was a little less irked. I am not saying that my feeling on it is correct, that is just the reaction -I- had.

Personally, I have a bit of a hard time forgiving Leeke because of the propensity to copy. If Mikhaila had been Leek's only "faux pas", I would have forgiven the company no problem! Even in spite of having a less than stellar transaction with Leeke, I would still probably buy from them (...WIGS D:!!!).

The one thing I am a bit confused on is "D.D.'s page of lies." I would never blindly support either side of an issue, and if such a page actually exists, I'd be interested to see it. That could just be the journalist in me though.

 

I haven't read through the thread, so I'm just putting in my two cents without commenting on what other people have been up to

I personally had a bad time with Bambicrony recently... I ordered a tan Ellen fullset from them. I started messaging them when it was two weeks past the given processing time, and I found out that they sold all of the shoes from the fullset and were waiting on more from their supplier. They kept promising shipping dates for months. I asked them to ship the doll and ship the shoes when they came later, but they refused. Finally, after four and a half months, I lost patience and threatened to invoke a certain law where online goods from S Korea cannot be more than a month late (past the listed processing time) and take legal action. Then they sent me the doll, and sent the shoes two months later.

Then, when I got the doll, there were white flakes on the faceup, presumably from spraying MSC in too cold or humid weather. The doll had some dents and discoloration in the tan skin color. They had sanded down seam lines, creating horrible light patches where the seams used to be. But I adored the doll and didn't want to deal with BC anymore, so I kept it.

The strange thing was that while I was discussing the problem on the forum, mostly at the request of people who were thinking of putting in orders (but sometimes just to vent, lol), there were people who lightly scolded me for reacting badly to how BC treated me and the quality of my doll. I don't really understand why it's considered "bad form" or something to honestly evaluate the customer service and quality of a doll company. I think people get really loyal towards certain companies, and maybe feel like they're being insulted, but... I still don't really understand the rationale here.

 

Well, I didn't say that to mean I thought all early companies were taking super heavy inspiration, but I'm not sure how most of them could have all come up with such similar objects -- same basic concept of joints, proportions, height, resin tone, etc., without having ever seen a resin BJD before. I do believe that companies have and do have dolls from other companies around. That's a pretty businessy thing to do, actually; you do have to keep an eye on the competition as well as for new ideas.

On the forgiveness vs company loyalty thing, it can get pretty muddled. Part of it is that sometimes people just want to vent, but the vented at feel like they have to react in some way even though there is absolutely nothing they in specific can do about it. If they have had only wonderful experiences with the company, the knee-jerk reaction may well be to get defensive. Plus these dolls have such an emotional factor for many, many owners. Yet it's certainly appropriate to let people know if you have had a bad time with a company, as fair warning.

To compound this, you do have people (often new) complaining about things over and over and over again that are considering within acceptable practices by the overall community (not sanding parting lines being one example), and/or have specific disclaimers about them on the company website. I think that makes it easy, especially for veterans of the hobby, to get a little dismissive. Or (and I've been guilty of this one . . . nrrr) the complaining happens in a thread that's full of people who are excited about a company's new LE or an actual waiting room where they've already made their can't-be-cancelled order, which is not going to be a particularly receptive audience for that.

Personally, the closest I've had to real problems is with individuals, not companies, so the forgiveness issue isn't something I have to wrestle with very often. But fundamentally it's all about individual reactions to companies and to complaints about them, so it's hard to say too much. Anyone who's had a complaint dismissed or worse by others can well paint the whole community as too rabidly loyal or too forgiving, and anyone who's had to argue for the tenth time that the company states that tan resins have x, y, and z problems so have held up their end of the bargain might well get an itchy trigger finger on the topic. Plus what's a problem at all is relative. I bought a very popular type of doll recently and find flaws that I can't live with in the body type, but for most owners of this body, it's the best thing ever, and they don't really want to hear about it. Fair enough.

 

This.

It makes me wonder how much of the recent debacle involving a very well-known and popular doll reseller might have been avoided if people had felt comfortable expressing their negative experiences with said reseller.

When people don't feel comfortable being honest because of the likelihood of attack, the hobby suffers. Personally, I want to know if the waiting time for a given company is 200% longer than stated, if there are quality control problems, communication issues, or similar. I've visited consumer rating sites before buying appliances that cost substantially less than some of my dolls. So, it seems natural to want as much info as possible before spending my hard earned cash, whether the company getting my money is a huge, faceless corporation or an artist some people know personally.