Forgiveness (do we forgive companies too easily or rather the opposite)

That's kinda what's really pissing me off about Custom House lately (well, for a while now). I'm not completely sure if it's still happening, but considering the number of orders that are still outstanding, it probably is. It really made me furious when Custom House started sending out newer orders with the same exact dolls that were owed to orders from early-mid 2010!! I realize that new customers paid too and aren't responsible for Custom House's bad behavior, but I just can't help but look at those dolls and think to myself "that should be so-and-so's doll" because it's the same exact one ordered by someone almost a year prior. How can any company justify something like that??

 

I can't speak for anyone else but I personally steer clear of companies with production, quality or shipping issues. I also don't do business with personal sellers on the marketplace with negative feedback.

It's usually a question of intentional scamming or unintentional problems, as much as it is debated it's rarely known for a fact what the issue is in most cases. I suppose I don't care which it is, I just see it as a company/seller issue of some sort I want no part in.

I nearly ordered a Narae from Dollfair last year, I just so happened to be waiting for more owner photos of the new Dreamer faceplate. I would have been miserable waiting for what might never come had I ordered. Let alone my frustration trying to get something done about the lack of communication and potential scamming when half my fellow buyers were defending the seller rather than sticking together to find resolution to a problem all share.

 

Are you kidding? Mio disappeared?How unforgiveable... not to mention any others doing the same. They take on too much and then bail out... taking our money! OUCH!

 

Grael: Well, perhaps I should have said that when I looked on the CCC wiki, there still seemed to be orders with outfits outstanding and face-ups paid for but not refunded. There was a list circulating at one stage, but I don't think anyone ever followed up on it as most people believed it was hopeless trying to get money out of Charles. I've pm'd one of the people who was listed as being owed a refund to find out for certain whether he did in fact ever refund her cash. I have another friend who ordered and will check with her whether she got a refund for double postage costs etc. I could as easily ask where you heard that Charles has issued all refunds because I've certainly never seen anyone saying that. At one point, he wasn't even able to confirm who had ordered what and was asking people to send him a list of their orders, so finding out he had managed to sort out his affairs to refund all the face-ups and extra shipping owed would indeed stun me. By the same token, if I were to order his current doll, in my book, I wouldn't be ordering from CCC but from Jpopdolls which is a different company entirely. As I know that you handle placing the orders with the manufacturing company and all the details up to shipping etc, then I'm not placing any reliance on Charles in any aspect other than perhaps in delivering the sculpt. I don't have any doubts or issues in placing my money with Jpopdolls, but would never consider investing with CCC itself. If I see a sculpt that I like from Charles being offered by Jpopdolls, then I don't have any problems in buying it but only because I trust the company offering it for sale.

 

I'm on the same page about this. I am as thoroughly confident in Jpopdolls as I am wary of Charles -- which is to say, 'very', on both counts. With the aspects of production being what they are in this case, I'd be totally comfortable buying one of the sculpts through Jpopdolls if one took my fancy and I would have full confidence it would be delivered. In all seriousness, this is probably the smartest structural move Charles could have made in terms of his business, which at the very least suggests he's learned something from the previous nightmare.

 

I never forget a bad service. NEVER. Neither from a company, nor from an user. Whenever I have problems with one of these, I try not to buy from them ever again.

 

reminds me of the ringoll problems nowadays. The first thing I thought of when I saw this thread was my problems with ringdoll. Oh how thankful I am that I never sent them the money.

I think if once upon a time the company was reliable, they may be able to redeem themselves by doing what it takes to gain our trust back, but for the most part? No. I don't forgive bad customer service, or bad quality products for high prices. I used to be kind of a push over.

Actually, to be honest, this hobby actually gave me more of a backbone when it came to my money. I WILL leave negative feedback now if a company doesn't get back to me/for a bad experience with a commissioner.

 

Yeah, Mio pretty much fell off the face of the earth, which is very sad to me because I LOVED her clothes and probably would have ordered lots of stuff from her in the future. I was one of the people who got screwed out of my money, along with the other people in the small group order I ran for some Mio clothes. I only lost about $35 on a sweater, but a couple other people in the GO had over $100 worth of stuff which they never received or got a refund for. The worst part was that Mio did actually resurface months after we were sure she was not coming back, said her dad had been sick and that she would either refund everyone's money or make the clothes, then disappeared yet again and hasn't returned since to my knowledge. If it doesn't suck bad enough to not get our clothes in the first place, it sucks even more to think we might have a shot at getting our money back months later, and then have that taken from us too.

It's always sad when doll companies take our money and don't come through or give us a ton of grief, because nothing in the doll world is really cheap. Despite all of that, I consider myself a pretty forgiving and patient person in this hobby. I've been waiting for a Narae from Bimong for almost 5 months now, and some people in the waiting room have been there even longer. It bothers me some days that it's taking much longer than the projected time frame, but at the same time I know Bimong is running things either by himself or with a small group of people, and it's easy to get overwhelmed. Bimong also hasn't disappeared; he's been answering questions on his Q&A and sending out orders here and there, so I suppose it is different than some of these other cases.

 

that is really sad. I'm so sorry that happened to you. I would have been devastated.

 

And while we're still on the topic of companies who disappear and don't make things right with their customers. I heard back from my friend who ordered through CCC. She never received the dollheart outfit that was meant to go with her doll, never received reimbursement for the extra shipping paid. So this isn't 'gossip', this is fact. Charles still owes money to at least one customer. I will admit that even while I do trust Jpopdolls to deliver the product, I find it hard to buy and support his work knowing that there are victims still out there.

Edit: I have heard from another customer who is now satisfied with her transaction. She didn't get precisely what was ordered but received substitutes instead and is happy and considers the transaction finalized.

 

In general, no, I would not buy from a company that has proven to be unreliable, I may go through a dealer if I could count on a refund, but the doll would truly have to be something else and the original problem very very slight for me to consider it.

There is NO way I would purchase another CCC doll, even through a dealer. I've never been so thoroughly annoyed in all my life. I am only one of the people from that awful time, but I can confirm things have not been "made right"

I am missing all of the outfit, never received any of it, my doll came without a faceup and I had to pay an outside party to ship her to me, so that is double shipping, which is actually the least of my troubles, as I am very grateful that I was able to at least recover the doll.

It was the single worst doll experience so far, and I hope ever, and I would strongly suggest people look at feedback before purchasing from companies. We have an excellent forum here with a wealth of knowledge and I think it needs to be drawn from to make the best decision.

Some things, to me, are forgiveable, running behind, etc. I can't fault a company for being popular (e.g. Latidoll), but when contact goes and you're left shortchanged? Sorry, no. I've got more sense than to deal with that again.

 

Sorry if I'm being a bit slow and I should have picked up on this, but who's Mio?

 

Mio was M2K, a person/company that made doll clothing.

 

Ah. I just looked her up. Hearing about all these good companies going bad, makes me wonder who was the first bjd company or person to just flake, disappear or scam a lot of people.

 

Was the name Mythdoll? I think there was an early company who produced dolls but disappeared owing people money.

 

Ah yes, I believe the owner of Mythdoll ran a couple of dolly businesses into the ground -- wasn't Abio (sp?) Angel hers as well?

 

Thank you Hobbysue. I am not sure mods will allow us to discuss ccc, here but as I said anyone still owed anything, contact me and I will take care of it. As to where I heard things were taken care of, several people were helping in this effort, getting items, shipping etc. I have been in contact with them, and they had long lists. So again if there are people out there, contact me.

As for being a dealer. No Jpop is not a dealer, Jpop is the producer, controls the factory production, takes in the money from customers, pays the factory, then when all dolls are shipped, and everything is in good order, pays the artists a royalty.

Why did I decide to produce the dolls? Why was I willing to forgive? Because I believe in artists. CCC was never a company in the real sense...it was a website, run by an artist, with no real business experience and when personal life came crashing down, the production company produced inferior goods after long delays, customers were demanding dolls...everything caved in. A business never puts itself in such a position in the first place. I see a lot of great dolls out there, and I see there are artists, who put up a website. People want their dolls and it seems very easy, just sell the dolls, make the money and live happily ever after. Again, not business. An artist never starts out with the intention to defraud, but they have no crisis management experience, so bad things happen to good people. I would not give someone who with malice and intention set out to defraud or steal, a second chance.

At jpop, if my factory blew up right now....customers would never even know it. Their dolls might be a week or so late, about the time it would take us to send new prototypes, EMS to another factory. Jpop maintains enough back up funding to head off any crisis, that is a huge part of business and being a company and that is what I see as important issue with the companies that "disappear" , they were living off the money, had nothing in reserve and the smallest problem, under they go. So it is not about good companies going bad, it is about good people not having a sound business strategy and ability to manage crisis and most importantly, keep a funding backup, always.

Mio is a good example. People keep saying the word company, but again, no an artist with a website, some thing went wrong in her life, she was using the money from her sales to live on and ....down she went with her customers out the money and no goods.

In a way because our bjd community is so internet intense, it has become just too easy to become "a company", join a forum, get a website and take paypal, and there you are, your in busines. Take money in and suppy the goods, but if something happens at the personal level....

Sadly I have seen what cannot be forgiven, as in the case of Dollfair, putting up false websites and taking orders for dolls they have no authority to represent, stealing artists master molds. This takes malice and intention to decieve and defraud, here we cannot forgive.

 

I agree it is too easy to become a 'company'. But the reality is that once you offer a product, set up a 'business' and sell said product then you are responsible for delivering it. Once you put up a buy button and a customer has pressed it and paid, there is a legal contract in place. Ignorance is no excuse, nor is personal life. It's like your landlord coming up to you saying "I'm running low on cash, renting is more expensive than I realised. I didn't know there would be taxes to pay etc. Now my mother's been kicked out of her place and I need money to build a granny flat at my house so can you be out on Monday - I'm selling your apartment". I'm sick of hearing personal life issues as an excuse. There should be contingency plans in place to cover these issues.

I don't think forgiveness needs to be a part of your deciding to sell his dolls either. From a practical standpoint, Charles has great sculpts that are fairly unusual and he has (assuming he hasn't alienated them), a rather large fan club of his work. Knowing that Jpopdolls handle all the aspects means I get the reassurance of knowing I'm dealing with someone who has years of experience in business. You were around before I started collecting many years ago. In fact, your wigs were the first I bought for my doll. You even told me which size to buy. The fact that you are selling is the only reason I would consider buying. My issue is that I know the royalties would be paid to Charles who is the guy who still owes my friend money and goods. Yes, she did receive her doll, but the fullset/face-up were not there when sent nor were any alternatives offered to compensate. Charles has since sent the same fullset to DDE, so at some point, he must have had the outfit in hand after sending her doll. When the dolls were being sent, a number of people were missing bits and pieces but people were asked to drop their claims due to one member making the effort to send the dolls. It does not mean that Charles doesn't still legally owe people for missing face-ups/extra shipping.

As for Dollfair, yeah, she's on a level of her own. How she managed to keep operating websites for dolls she no longer sold is beyond me. But it can be very difficult to get these websites shut down, especially when you are overseas and often unable to speak english. At the time, the end result is the same for both Dollfair and all the other companies such as Mio, Unidoll etc who failed to deliver goods, they have defrauded customers. Intentionally or accidentally really doesn't matter, the end result is the same.

 

Aww, are Ringdoll still missing in action? I am still waiting + desperate to get even a chance to forgive them, because there's still some shoes and accessories that I utterly lust for & had to cancel my order for (btw, thank you Mint On Card for your righteous vigilance!). And I also have a pretty bad crush on their Frankenstein doll.

They make such lovely things. But I can't throw any money at them until they stop with the AWOL act.... It's just common sense. I don't stick my hand inside a blender unless I know it's unplugged, and I don't send money to absentee artisans.

 

^This is generally my line of thinking. I would be wary to purchase from a company that had previous issues in the past. For example, with Mio, even if she ever came back and refunded all her customers, I doubt I'd order from her directly (despite her awesome clothing /sigh ;_; ), just because I've already seen what she's /capable/ of (and with this, I mean leaving her customers hanging while taking thousands of dollars with her, regardless of her issue).

And about companies gaining back rep, it's highly unlikely they could gain back 100% of w/e great feedback they had; trust is really hard to earn back imo. xD Even if they did, as a customer, I'd always ask myself "well if they had the nerve to do (insert bad company ethics/behaviour here) before, what guarantees that they won't do it again?"