From your point of view, is any BJD worth thousands of dollars?

So here are some questions:
-Is any doll worth that amount from your point of view?

This is a somewhat refreshing topic among all the other countless and medicore threads which essentially state the same thing. I'm unsure as to how to define worth and I can't speak for the entire doll community. I contend that these dolls do contain a certain amount of monetary wealth which is dependent on age, company, intial price and rarity as well as any defects. For instance, I think Volks standard editions - like Megu - are worth around $600 in good condition. Although, my Megu may have a worth greater than can be measured. I think it's all subjective as to what is the worth of these dolls, especially in such a corporeal driven hobby.

If you have ever bought a limited doll from a second hand market for a minimum of a few thousand dollars, what are the pros and cons of this?

I've bought a limited although not for a few thousand.. ^^; I have purchased a few limiteds though that, for my situation, may as well cost a few thousand but I purchased these dolls because I wanted them. Their actual monetary worth didn't occur to me.

To those who would pay this amount but haven't/can't: What makes a doll worth this amount to you?

When it's something you desperately want, any price is affordable. That's the harshness of this hobby; really, anyone can charge anything and get by with it. Especially if it's a limited.

 

Because cast urethane resin has a wonderful fleshlike glow that other materials don't. Not even porcelain. Certainly not vinyl. You can make dolls out of cheaper materials, but those dolls just won't be the same as BJDs. They are made out of the best possible material because the manufacturers want to make something that's not just an ordinary hunk of plastic. So you have to decide whether it's worth it to YOU to pay yea bucks for something exquisite, or to pay less for something Meh.

Resin won't "degrade quickly" if you take care of it, either. It will dicolor slightly over time regardless of care, but if you keep it out of strong light, it will stay nice for years. You don't exactly get a bright crayon-yellow from modern resins, anyway (some early French-resin and beautywhite formulas excepted, of course ;; )-- it'll just turn a deeper ivory. It's often not very noticeable, either; the only way I can tell my 4-years-old Volks boys have darkened is by holding them next to a new Volks boy. It's "normal wear", as those guys the Antiques Roadshow will be saying about a slightly-yellowed Shiro Tachibana fullset in, say, 10-20 years.

After a few decades, dolls made of cheap plastics will also be discolored & degraded-- and then you'd be stuck with something even less attractive & less valuable than a sallow BJD. But you can always sell your doll at the first sign of yellowing, if it upsets you that badly, and then you won't have to worry about age.

Exactly. Once the cost exceeds the sum of its parts, the remaining difference is all Intangibles. That is what's different for everybody, and that's why you can't force it to add up mathematically in the way you describe.

Intangible things that people spend money on include: "It's so beautiful", "It makes me happy", "I love that doll's gaze", "it's the cutest face I've ever seen", "I've never seen a better faceup anywhere", "it must have taken SO much work to design, create & build that doll with 8 arms", "she looks just like that character I've been dying to put into doll form", and so on.

This is a good point! Like... Look at the price of a regular Stratocaster on the secondhand market (3-4 figures), & then compare that to the price of a Stratocaster that was once owned and/or set on fire by Jimi Hendrix (6 figures). Noncollectors can't grasp it, but some dolls just happen to be Hendrix guitars.

 

for a collector, "thousands" is not a limit...I have something else I like more than BJD...I've been spending a lot of money (I think it's enough to purchase 2-3 BJDs...haha) on it...Everytime I see something new or awesome of it, my head just got blank and purchase it (^.^)'...
but when I want to purchase a BJD like now, i really-really-really think about it more...

Some people love either expensive jewelry, electronics, cars, clothes, even a mail-stamp !, etc....etc....or dolls...They would spend the money on it no matter how big amount is...when they see it's unique, they'll pursue it...(I did pursue something I like...I asked a seller to find me...and really, it's the only one left, I think, on the market...I didn't think much of the price but thank goodness I still afford it...(^.^)' )

For myself, I'm not (yet) a true BJD collector and lover (I'm still uncomfortable with the doll since the Barbie... (~.~)'...really...), so thousands USD will be a big NO NO for me...I'd rather purchase sewing machine with a lot of fabrics or purchase some great yarns...or some other cuter or blank doll and make a character on her/him by myself...if I want a unique stuff, I'd rather do it myself...(unless, technically/construction-ly, the doll is different...like a doll with remote control, perhaps...(^.^)')

 

That pretty much sums it up for me.

-Is any doll worth that amount from your point of view? Any object has a monetary value of exactly what someone pays for it at the moment they pay. Before or after that moment, it's all up in the air. I have paid more than $1000 for a doll without hesitation because it was exactly the doll I wanted at the time and I had the funds. Almost everything about the doll hobby has changed since then, so I don't think that doll would be valued the same way now.

-To those who would pay this amount but haven't: What makes a doll worth this amount to you?what are the pros and cons of this? And do you worry that it may lose value due to popularity (or lack of) or from typical wear over time? What makes that doll worth it to you?
I haven't had to pay that much for a second-hand doll. I have been seriously tempted by one or two unique dolls on Y!J that sold for many thousands, but couldn't find it in me to replace an existing doll to get it. At this point I have the core of my collection settled and I am quite attached to the current lineup.

I don't worry about resale value with dolls any more than I worry about the resale value of any other thing I buy. Clothes and books usually don't have much resale value anymore, so as far as I can tell I could just walk to my front door and chuck hundred dollar bills into the street and get the same result in the long run except for the memory of the pleasure I got from those purchases. I firmly believe that civilization as we know it will collapse in my lifetime. Regardless of how much we feel any of our possessions will be worth in the future, I think it's illusory. I'm pretty sure that I currently enjoy a more luxurious lifestyle than 90% of humanity, since I can even spend this much time on something so rarefied as hand-made dolls. Lately, I've been thinking that I'd rather spend my money on creating happy memories and learning practical skills than on buying things that just collect dust in my home. Some of those memories and practical skills will come through the doll hobby, so I'm just going to enjoy them while I can and not worry about a cash return on the investment.

 

Well if civilization *does* collapse (and it's only a matter of time considering our lifestyle of being like 2 or 3 % of the world's population yet consuming 30% of its resources) I can tell you as the child of war historians (and antique dealers and pawnshop scroungers) that it's far better to have the "vulgar" gold and diamonds sewn into your hemline than to have an effeminate male resin doll (or any kind of doll) slung over your arm... and far easier to run with!

So yeah. I do my frivolous collecting knowing just how frivolous it is, and how lucky I am, both historically and geographically. ^^;;

Raven

 

If civilization collapses, both dolls & diamonds will be worth dogshit because you can't eat 'em. The radioactive zombie cannibals will spit out your diamonds after they finish sucking your bones clean. Have we really learnt nothing from Cormac McCarthy's "The Road"?

 

BJDs on Antiques Roadshow? Win.

I would actually not characterize yellowing as 'degrading' at all. The structural integrity of the resin itself isn't severely compromised by yellowing (well, so long as yellowing is the result of normal age and exposure at least). I would consider yellowing to be akin to the green patina that copper develops with age -- merely a property of the substance, and something that can add to the piece's beauty in a way.

Even fine art done on the best materials available during the period the art was created in will show the effects of age. Exposure to certain elements and light will affect how much the artwork shows those aging signs, of course, but they will still age. Does this affect the value of the art? Is it considered 'defective' because the paint has aged according to the way its components react to oxygen and light? No. It's just something that comes along with the art. Aging (and yellowing) can be minimized with proper care, but so long as it's due only to the natural properties of the materials and not someone being careless with the piece in question, it's not a defect or damage. It simply is.

ETA: JennyNemesis, my keyboard thanks you for the abrupt introduction it just had to my soda.

 

XD Well we'll both be eaten, but you first. Save me a place at the party on the other side ^_~

Raven

 

To me, no.

Personally, no doll is ever going to be worth over 1500$ for me. And that's pushing it big time.

Why? Because as much as I love this hobby, I can love it just as much with my 180$ Bobobie as i can with a 4000$ LE. I can have just as much fun with it. And I feel I can do more and push more limits with my much more inexpensive, standard girls. Also, a doll doesn't provide me a roof over my head (thousands gets into rent for a few months), it doesn't put food in my belly (oh the amount of meals that would be!) and a 4000$ doll would be 3400$ more expensive than the most expensive car I've ever bought. I love the hobby, I love my girls, ,there are plenty of LEs that if I pooped money I would be all over like a fat kid on cake. But, I can not justify that kind of money, so it's not worth it to me.

Maybe i just need a sugar daddy?

 

Exactly, and I know for a fact that vinyl can actually degrade over time--it unfortunately happened to one of my mom's very cool dolls from her childhood. It's poor little arm started to crumble away, and she couldn't find a replacement arm that matched.

The other thing about resin, is that it's much easier to customize than vinyl or porcelain, and customization is one of the cornerstones of this hobby. It wouldn't make sense to produce dolls that are made to be highly customized by their owners out of something like porcelain.

It's not like they turn into radioactive bananas anyway--even my 3 year old French resin doll isn't that day glow

 

-Is any doll worth that amount from your point of view?

For a OOAK original from scratch sculpt maybe, for the limited dolls of the kind most people are talking about then no and certainly never for a OOAK face-up/mod on a basic doll. Some people have compared Bads to paintings but for me limiteds are more like limited signed artists prints which to me personally has little value over that of a normal poster because of how it was produced, I've considered spending over $1000 on a painting but I also refused to spend $100- $50 on a limited print from the same artist not because the print isn't just as beautiful but because for me its just not the same as the original

-To those who would pay this amount but haven't/can't: What makes a doll worth this amount to you?
like I said it would have to be completely OOAK to even consider but it would also have to be absolutely perfect for me and really call to me even then, I would have to love it exactly as it was


-To those who would not pay this amount, even if you did have the money: Let's just pretend that your dream dolly is a limited going for a few thousand, why wouldn't you be willing to pay this amount?

talking about the kinds of limiteds most people are referring to I would never pay that much because it isn't unique, its limited but there are still several others out there and it just doesn't hold the same appeal.

 

-Is any doll worth that amount from your point of view?

No, not to me. I was lucky enough to acquire my dream doll at "just" $990: my SD13 Cristal oneoff with what is to me the hands-down best faceup I've ever seen on this headmold. She was painted by her original designer, aone. What could possibly beat owning my favorite headmold with an incredible faceup? Nothing. So $990 is my limit to spend on one doll. There are some drawbacks to this (SD17s and SDGrs are off-limits since they always cost $1000+) but it's also nice to set a limit on what I'll spend on one doll. I'd rather have a large, varied collection of lesser-priced dolls than just a few that cost a small fortune each.

However, my feelings might change if I hadn't won Cristal in the lottery and she ended up being the same price as Williams or Madoka on the secondhand market. When she first came out I was very determined to acquire her at all costs. I guess I'm lucky I've never been thrown into that situation!

 

-Is any doll worth that amount from your point of view?

It depends on how much I want it. I have paid several thousands for antique dolls and their value, like all dolls, is very subjective. If I could afford it and if I wanted a doll very much, I would probably pay the going price, whatever it is.


To those who would pay this amount but haven't/can't: What makes a doll worth this amount to you?

It's hard to pin down why I like certain dolls and not others, but I know them when I see them.

 

-Is any doll worth that amount from your point of view?

personally, i haven't found a +1000 dollar doll yet that i absolutely want to have but i've noticed that ever since i started collecting dolls in general maybe 10 years ago, i've gone from spending reasonable money for, say, Barbie dolls to spending more money for Pullips to buying MSDs and then SDs, ... always thinking "oh, i only need ONE. just ONE and i'll be living happily ever after." yeah, right. XD
right now, +1000 dolls are too expensive for me but i'm sure that once THE doll shows up, i'd probably do something stupid and somehow try to get my hands on it nevertheless.

-To those who would pay this amount but haven't/can't: What makes a doll worth this amount to you?

love at first sight.

 

I found this article recently in Slate and thought about bjds:
http://www.slate.com/id/2221963/
(it's about the disintegration of plastic artwork and how museums are struggling to preserve them)

When I dropped my first Grand on a bjd in 2005 (Anais 2) I wrote to Nick Hill of Twin Pines of Maine, a company that specializes in the restoration and preservation of plastic toys and collectibles and asked about resin dolls; if they were at all "archival". He sent me a long reply, which I edited and posted somewhere here (with his permission)... It was a long time ago so that post may have fallen off the back end of the universe so here it is again:

"To make dolls a la
Volks, two component formulations are used. Basically a Part A (isocyanate or
aka resin) is mixed with a Part B (active hydrogen source aka polyol or
hardener) in a given ratio. There are many resins and hardeners from which
to choose. One would choose components in order to achieve properties such
as translucency, flexibility, hardness, non-yellowing, etc."

About durability he says:
"Urethanes are very strong, that is, relatively difficult to break." "...it can be
rigid or flexible to varying degrees."

As for the kinds of paint to use for face-ups:
"A urethane will accept both oil and
water-based paints. Coloring can also be applied with dry pastels.
Externally applied color can be fixed with a matte, non-yellowing spray
(like an acrylic or a urethane)."

About removing face-ups and longevity of PE resin:
"The cured polymer is inert and can be cleaned with acetone. There is no
longevity issue with a properly formulated urethane. It will not decay; it
is not subject to microbial attack (e.g. fungus or mildew). Depending on
choices of the A and B components the polymer can be stable to UV exposure
or it can yellow. Therefore translucency can be forever maintained without
yellowing if the A and B components are correctly chosen."


So the whole crux of the matter seems to be the resin's "proper formulation". I doubt we'll have access to any companies' resin recipes so unfortunately I don't know how we can know which companies' dolls are properly formulated! I know some resins *do* dissolve under acetone and other chemicals besides (DOD I'm lookin' at you), and some companies have a track record (Volks) as it's been 10 years since bjd were first introduced!

For me personally I do try to avoid the more translucent resins, though French resin is so lovely it's hard to resist! I also think it's important to seal the whole doll and keep it out of light as much as you can.

But part of the fun of these dolls is their play value, so one has to walk the tightrope of conscientious care/preservation and the more immediate enjoyment of the doll as plaything.

Raven

 

I'm getting ready to spend around $1100 on my FIRST doll... because he's exactly the doll I want, he can't be gotten any other way, and he's worth it to me.

Wil I spend that much on subsequent dolls? i can't say for sure, I'd like to THINK not, but... it's worth that to me to have exactly what I want.

 

Everyone has such great opinions on this topic, I think I'll jump in on the bandwagon...
When I first got into the BJD hobby, I thought $600 was too pricey. But years later, and after seeing more and more of this hobby, I'd realized that $600 is really a standard price for an SD. Now when it comes to Volks Yo-SDs being that price...I start to wonder if such prices for a small doll would be worth it. Really, it all depends on a person's preference and how much they REALLY love a doll, no matter how big or small.
And honestly, up until a few months I never thought I'd lust after a $600 head. Just the head, and no body. Of course, this is a Volks Hikaru Genji head, and in my opinion, he's so worth the steep price. For someone else, that may be insane, and for myself from years ago that would be insane. But my understanding of the hobby has allowed me to accept the steeper prices for less depending on how much I really love a sculpt.

 

BJDs I've seen for thousands of dollars are usually limiteds and rare, and they are that way because of company output, which is usually something done on purpose to push up prices. I wouldn't spend thousands on a doll. I'd rather buy a $600 doll and spend extra money on modding it, clothing it etc to make it a unique piece. That is when they start becoming an object of value to me.

 

Except the company doesn't get any money from the resale.

 

This may be mad but having read all of these posts I keep thinking of us all with a cameo role in Underground directed by Emir Kustarica. I think we would be eaten yet fit into the charade perfectly

I would have bought a limited doll and probably at an inflated cost before coming to the conclusion that the ever evolving nature is what I love most and would not enjoy a doll at all if maintaining it's value for resale.
That said, I understand that those with a little more money or perhaps a high emotional investment in a limited sculpt for whatever reason can have their joy met and perhaps it is all insane escapism but it is no more insane than coveting a designer dress or chair.

Blah..I am crappy at saying things but mean to say that joy is priceless and if the rare sets your heart on fire then let it be