From your point of view, is any BJD worth thousands of dollars?

At the end of the day something is worth however much a person is willing to pay. I could never pay 2000+ for a Bermann or a Yukinojo but that's only because that's too much money for me to come up with. I totally think they're worth it though and kudos to anyone with that kind of disposable income or for having the discipline to save the funds.

 

Very true! Just because you spend a thousand or more on a doll does not mean that you cannot play with it, as so many seem to assume. You just have to, well, play nice. I was always one of those grubby little cavechildren whose Barbies had one eye chipped off & hair all ratted up & ballpoint ink stains on the legs; playing carefully with Nice Things is definintely a learned skill. But it can be done.

Thank you for the article, btw. I was recently reading an article in the New Yorker about an art conservator whom people call when really weird modern art materials break down-- latex, ricepaper, insect carapaces, wooden tree stumps that get eaten by certain breeds of bugs, how does one properly replace elephant dung on a painting, and does it matter where the elephant came from? (And I wonder if Hirst has a backup shark corpse in mind?) These creations that people pay BIG money for, they're often made of very frangible stuff, some of which breaks down while the original owner still has it. Longevity-wise, resin is Carrara marble by comparison....

 

For me it isn't about spending that much on a doll. It's about spending that much on something only I will use. Me. Nobody else. It makes me feel really, really guilty. I've spent that much on other things: electronics, movies, etc. But others in my family use those things too, so I feel the price is worth it.

If you look at my sig you'll notice that all those dolls add up to around $1000. However, I got all that stuff, over time, for $1000. It wasn't a single doll with a single, giant drain on my bank account.

I can completely understand if you want to drop that much cash, especially if it's your dream doll. I say go for it!

 

yes in a nutshell... I would pay thousands if it was something I really, really wanted... I recently acquired a petdoll mori at a somewhat inflated price but the money meant nothing to me - the petdoll on the other hand is a much loved piece and it was in fact my most sought after doll...

 

So here are some questions:
-Is any doll worth that amount from your point of view?

Not really. My reason for such a wishy-washy response is this: if for some reason I ran across a hard to find sculpt that I really wanted, and it was in fabulous condition with a perfect faceup and a really beautifully done, impossible to reproduce fullset outfit, with gorgeous eyes, yes I might be tempted to pay that much. Maybe. But then I'd be terrified of doing something to harm it. I think some dolls are definitely worth $1000-1500 or so because of their complexity and the extras that come with them, but these are few and far between. As a general answer I think not. I'd rather get the moderately-priced doll (which is, after all, made of the same materials) and enjoy it.

-To those who would not pay this amount, even if you did have the money: Let's just pretend that your dream dolly is a limited going for a few thousand, why wouldn't you be willing to pay this amount?

I wouldn't pay a few thousand just because the doll is a limited. Seriously. I have several limited dolls and the most expensive, full-set, was around $800 -- which I felt was a fair price.

It would have to be a doll that spoke directly to ME in order for me to even consider paying that much. The only way in which "limited" would affect my decision would be if this was the "toss all the rest, this is my perfect doll and I must have it" sculpt.

 

This pretty much sums it up for me!

I do have an LE Bermann head, but I only have it due to the generosity of the person who sold it to me at a very fair, and reasonable price (WELL, below what she could have gotten had she'd auctioned it.)

I personally won't pay inflated prices for much of anything, let alone a non-essential item. But, I am inherently cheap.

I have no judgments however, towards anyone who wants, or is able to spend more for a very special doll, as that is a completely personal choice and decision.

 

I think it depends. If you earn enough for that to be affordable, then yes, a doll might be worth that to you. To me, it's an unattainable price at the minute, so even if I adored the doll there'd be no chance.

 

-Is any doll worth that amount from your point of view?
Aside from the value of the materials, anything on top of it is intangible. That part is very subjective, just like valuing utility(pleasure one gets from buying something) in economics. And if a doll could sell for that much, it must mean there is demand for it that drives up the price. I assume the enjoyment and pleasure one gets from buying a 4000+ doll is at least equals to buying several dolls that add up to 4000+. Then i can see why certain doll can worth that much.

-To those who would not pay this amount, even if you did have the money: Let's just pretend that your dream dolly is a limited going for a few thousand, why wouldn't you be willing to pay this amount?
First of all, i haven't find any doll that is truly my dream doll. I'm also not crazy about LE either. With my current financial situation i could not justify myself to spend over 1000 on a doll. But aside from this, even if i have that amount of money to buy a 4000+ dream doll i guess i would back away from it.

The reason is if i buy it for that much, i would really restrict myself when playing with it. For something worth that much, i would put it into a glass cabinet and admire it everyday. This to me, lost the value of playing with the doll. The same thing happen to my expensive brand-named handbag which i put into a dust bag and rarely use it. When i use it, i'm so afraid that i'll scratch, damage, and lost it......I mean i really love it and the quality is extremely good but somehow it lost its functional value to me.

Also, if i happen to buy it after all, i would also want to buy really nice and expensive wigs, shoes, eyes and cloths for the doll. The continuing spending afterward is also another issue. I mean i would want to spend more on the accessories and so on to match the doll's value. Unless i am so wealthy (like i can just throw away money or burn them...) and that price range has become my normal standard of living (then i guess i would not mind play with the doll a lot), I would never convince myself for spending that much on a doll.

 

-Is any doll worth that amount from your point of view?

$4000? Yes frankly. If I had the oppurtunity to purchase the Black Elf Ducan or Luke and I had that kind of money I would cough it up. I personally feel that a BJD I like that comes up for sale at $500 is a bargain- sometimes I shock myself that I am able to think that, but in our hobby that is true. I think my most expensive doll was my Volks Suiseiseki with the Akando a close second.

-If you have ever bought a limited doll from a second hand market for a minimum of a few thousand dollars, what are the pros and cons of this? And do you worry that it may lose value due to popularity (or lack of) or from typical wear over time? What makes that doll worth it to you?

I have bought some limited dolls from second hand and paid in the thousand plus range, and to me the popularity (or lack of) is quite inconsiquential. I bought them because I loved them and wanted them so much. I don't know what exactly makes them worth that amount to me- to be honest if they were $50 I still would have loved them as much but the bank account would have loved them even more heheh).

That said, there are some dolls out there that do demand a huge amount of money that are not really that rare- for example the Soom MD's and the original Dollshe's. However the value is incredibely high. The Soom MD's are also prone to scalpers which infuriates me bit is an entirely different topic. Frankly, I would pay a fair amount for something: but not have someone take the piss out of me.


-To those who would not pay this amount, even if you did have the money: Let's just pretend that your dream dolly is a limited going for a few thousand, why wouldn't you be willing to pay this amount?

My reason not to would be for an obvious scalper. Someone who orders a Sard, and as soon as it arrives they wack the thing on the MP for double or triple the price. It's still all boxed up and never touched- bought completely so the owner could charge extortionate amounts. Sure- some people will go for it but I'm not going too. The whole market then becomes skewed and the Sard suddenly becomes worth about $1500 all based on greed.

 

Well, any collectors item is going to go up in value in its respective market depending on its uniqueness. I was part of the Beanie Baby craze back in the day, and I remember some of the rarer Beanies going for a couple thousand dollars on the collectors market. They were $6 bags of fabric and PVC pellets, yet the collectors put the value in them. Now that the craze is over, those same rare pieces are being sold 2 for $5 in Wallgreens. When there is demand, there is value.

Now granted, BJD's are more involved in the construction, and depending on the doll, they can be individual pieces of art. That has an impact on their worth, regardless of how much the actual supplies may cost. Just like any piece of art, the more unique it is, the more value it has to an individual who appreciates it. Personally, no matter how much I may love a BJD, I will never spend more than $600 max on a doll or any other type of item. That's just me; I have very little luxury dollars, and even saving for something like an object is not as important as say, fixing a car, paying rent, or something that will receive more practical use. So for me, no doll is worth thousands of dollars. It all depends on the individual.

 

I want to make a few comments on the dolls vs art concept.

Pretty much every BJD, even a limited edition, is still a casting from an original sculpt. The face-ups may be hand painted. The outfits may be hand sewn. But the doll itself is not, technically, an original.

The paintings that people keep mentioning, the ones that go for thousands of dollars - the majority of those are original works of art. There is only one in the entire world.

It's more accurate to compare dolls to a limited run of prints. Or, if you want to be picky about it, a giclee (which is basically a print that the artist did some token brushwork on). Now, some of these do still go for thousands of dollars - but it's rarer. If you're buying a print, a lot of the cost is based on how big the print is and whether or not you get a frame with it. Some of them are very nice, and some are even printed on canvas, but a print will never be as much as the original, one of a kind work of art.

I've never seen a BJD that I would be willing to spend multiple thousands on (or even just $1000), nor have I seen one I thought was worth it. The basic fact is that they're not original works when they come from the company, and my personal belief is that only an original is worth that much money.

 

The original sculpt, though, is not designed to be a piece of artwork as it is. A painting is. The original sculpt is designed specifically to be reproduced in whatever numbers the company chooses, so the comparison isn't quite right.

 

Any mass produced sculpture had to have an original sculpt. The point I was trying to make is that dolls shouldn't be compared to original paintings. If one wanted to call a BJD art, then they're commercial art and come with a separate set of standards than traditional fine art.

 

I'm with you on this one. For me, especially in this economy, I feel pretty guilty about spending large amounts of money on dolls when I have a daughter in college, medical bills to pay, taxes, etc. Even spending $600 on a doll, which, let's face it, is considered "mid-range" in the BJD world, makes me feel a bit squirmy and I have to connect getting it with a special event, like an anniversary or birthday or Christmas. I simply can't rationalize spending that much money on myself.

Also, I drag my dolls around A LOT- on cars, to the beach, on boats, stuffed into carry-on bags for flying, etc. So for me personally- I don't want to risk damaging a doll that is that expensive.

What is "expensive" is entirely up to the perspective of the individual. Before I got into this "hobby" (obsession), I would have considered $80 for a four-inch tall doll to be ridiculously expensive.

THAT SAID: I have absolutely no problem with anyone else spending whatever they want to get the doll of their dreams. It's so personal. If you have enough money that you can drop $4000 without a blink- well, lucky you! If you have to scrimp and save for a long time to get that doll- again, that's your business and how do you really put value on something that will give you so much pleasure? One $2000 doll approximately = 20 sessions with a psychotherapist and perhaps in the long run will be more effective in making you happy, helping you work out issues, etc., so....
Whatever works for you!

 

That's really depends, like the centaur doll on soom, I can understand it, it's huge, and you can get the human bottom half too if you want

But a regular sized doll, say SD, I personally just couldn't spend that much money on one. I just don't have the money to do so, and I feel like dolls, as beautiful and well made as they are, just aren't worth THAT much :\ I'm willing to shell out 500, or a 60 or 70 cm, but past that I just can't do it.... but I also don't have the money to do it.

And I put my doll thru a bit of wear and tear, nothing major, but he may may take a fall now and again, but I'd be scared of damaging a 1000$ doll just cause replacing it or something would be so expensive .___.;;

But if someone wants to and finds it worth their money, that is their choice and I don't think it's "wrong" or anything! I just meant me personally, I don't thin they're wroth quite that much

 

You know...I know an awful lot of printmakers who would surely beg to differ. Etching, engraving, wood- and lino-cut, stone and plate lithography, silkscreen...printmaking has a long an rich history as 'real art for the masses' and has also been instrumental in cultural and cross-cultural communications for centuries.

If you think being produced in multiples makes prints anly less 'art', or valuable, guess again. And I doubt the only relevance the fact the framing has on the value of those, is the archival protection it provided

I think ABJDs are a pretty fitting sculptural analogy to printmaking. They are not so much 'reproductions of an original piece' as a piece conceived in serial: the 'master' sculpt and mold for a doll is much more like the plate, block, stone or screen that produces a print. Like prints, they may be subject to hand-embellishment within the series that makes each individual copy 'unique'. Just because a process is mechanical and repeatable, does not make it any less a legitimate creative process.

 

Exactly. I'd rather have dolls than run around to doctors. Sure, I think the dolls can be a tad overpriced. I feel the same way about the doctors. But when you feel you need to have something, if you have the money, you will pay the money. If paying that kind of money for a doll (or a doctor) makes you squicked out, the odds are you will end up blowing it on something - fancy clothes, dinners out, a family vacation, a new car, other hobbies, etc. - to meet your need...or if you just save it because you need to have a lot of money in the bank to feel happy, then it's meeting your need in a different way.

 

Well said, tigerbaby! And even if you ignore the sculpt for a moment, many limited fullset dolls come with other items. Clothing, wigs, eyes, accessories...none of that stuff will be sold again.

I think it's a poor comparison. I think of limited dolls more like artwork signed by the artist. While you may be able to get the print any time you want, that print with that signature (and possibly that limited number stamp) won't show up again. So to some people it's worth the price.

cirquemom - I'm glad I'm not the only one!

 

The casting itself may be done repeatedly, but the dolls are assembled & finished by hand, individually, and the pieces are thrown out & recast & redone if they don't come out suitably on the first try. And each run of that same doll can come out different, as in printmaking, as Tigerbaby says. If you look at the *multitude* of tiny little body-pieces that DD-Anne must cast, finish, and assemble each time she wants to make a Lotus Near (he has eight arms and bat ears)-- not to mention all the fancy little finishing touches she creates for each separate release, including different faceups & outfits-- you will wonder how just the labor alone doesn't add up to a thousand bucks. Then, when you read she's making 20 of them, you will get tired on her behalf just thinking about it. The Intangibles can add up really fast.

These dolls are not mass-produced. Each is handmade. Therefore, they fall somewhere between your characterizations of Single Paintings vs Limited Run Prints....

...Exactly, they're something else entirely.

Also: on which side of the Art debate does one place one-off dolls? Some dolls really, really don't exist in formats of multiples-- likesay, the luscious and legendary DoT Black Ducan. Thus, the original-oil-painting-level prices.

(I know an awful LOT of people who normally refuse to spend more than $1k on a doll, who would simply not hesistate to sell their own blood & put down a $3-5K bid on that Black Ducan, if he ever showed up for sale. Trouble is, as more than one person has lamented, selling plasma just doesn't pay well enough as a career. ;;^^)

 

So here are some questions:
-Is any doll worth that amount from your point of view? Yes. I recently put down a sizable chunk of cash to bring homea Beryl. Sizable even though she didn't come with the parts that make her do desirable to most folks -- her hooves and horns. She was a straight-up human girl, and that was what I had wanted her for anyway, so finding one on the market (though pricey) without all the options to drive her price up any more, made her desirable to me. Right after I bought mine and was kicking myself for paying so much, another came on the market and went for twice what I paid. So, hey, I feel like I got a deal now.

-If you have ever bought a limited doll from a second hand market for a minimum of a few thousand dollars, what are the pros and cons of this? And do you worry that it may lose value due to popularity (or lack of) or from typical wear over time? What makes that doll worth it to you? The pro is I now have the doll, which is really all that I need in the pro category. The con is that my bank account hates me. I don't worry about her (or any of my other dolls, limited or not) losing or gaining value. That is not why I bought them. I bought them to keep and cherish, not sell when the price gets high enough. As for what makes a doll worth it to me, it is all about whether or not I can find a sculpt to embody my characters, as most of my dolls are based on characters I have created in a novel-verse.

-To those who would pay this amount but haven't/can't: What makes a doll worth this amount to you? For me, it is all about the beauty of the sculpt. I don't care about resale value or frilly extras or snagging something rare.