Gallery + Upping your personal photograpy ante?

Sometimes a great shot is entirely accidental. In fact, probably any of the REALLY good shots I have ever managed to get have been quite by accident, and definitely not due to any photographic proficiency on my part.

 

Because sometimes things happen by accident and have nothing whatsoever to do with purposeful planning. And they still turn out really cool. It's a pretty well-recognized phenomenon.


ETA: BWAHAHAHA!!! Gayle. You took the words right out of my mouth.

For what it's worth, MY weird low light grainy shots are neither beautiful nor purposeful. They represent the fact that I stink. That's why I don't expect to ever be in Gallery+, even though, back to the original question, I guess I would like to improve if I had the energy to devote to it. As it stands, I just will enjoy looking at everyone else's beautiful work, because some of it I had missed before.

 

I am not understanding what you're saying. Sure, happy accidents happen. But strong photographic technique and technical skill are NOT subjective. Period. If you're trying to say that artistic merit is subjective, I might be swayed to agree with you.

 

I can tell.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and there IS more than one way to take a picture. That's all.

 

Oh man, greatness is SO accidental sometimes.... Occasionally my camera does something magical that I didn't tell it to do, and I learn from it. However, the skill part comes into play if I can do it a second time, on purpose.

That was exactly the form of defeatism I was talking about, yes. Check out Page 1 of this thread, for starters: "I tried, loved my thread and they didn't. So I gave up." [verbatim] That's the kind of thing that misses the point, defeats the soul, & makes Baby Jesus cry. Very sad.

I wasn't talking about folks who choose not to post in any gallery, or only post elsewhere, or don't do photography. Nobody's demanding competitiveness, here, & not everyone joins a forum for the same purposes.

Very true, but it's also true that you can't let your audience dictate your art. If you don't listen to your muse & only your muse, your signal won't come in clear.

There does seem to be a lot of raining-on-parades from nonparticipants, though. Why is it OK to make sweeping assumptions and judgments about the G+ postings being repetitive and artistically unworthy, about gloryseekers 'resting on their laurels', about how they're merely a function of economic privilege?

 

I do wish that people would consider how insulting they are being to people whose work was selected for Gallery+. I can understand disliking some of the choices or disliking the concept of G+ itself, but it is a bit demeaning to featured photographers to basically call their work crap.

Well, Gallery+ is on DoA, which is undeniably different than dA (art focused) or flickr (photography focused). We're picking what we feel is the best of what is here... so the best of what's available on other sites is sort of immaterial.

The moderators are hobbyists as well... and we do have opinions, passions, and personal aesthetics like any other doll owner. There's no denying that our choices will be colored by our own tastes, and we've never really made any secret of this. Being a mod really has few privileges (and involves a lot of work and dealing with negativity), so this getting to choose threads is sort of a "perk" for the mods and helps a little to stave off burnout by getting to help build a beautiful collection.

I think that having pictures chosen by the staff is less alienating than having them picked by members... because if 20 people don't choose your thread, it's different than if no one among 20,000 people picks your thread. Gallery+ is a just a highlight; it's not the be-all-end all. DoA isn't even the be-all-end-all... and as many others have mentioned, other venues such as flikr and dA are good ways to get more response/validation by pitching directly to your target audience.

There have been photostories moved! (Many of them are actually the ones people are referring to when they say they don't belong there, oddly enough.)

That said, the bulk of threads in the photostory subforum are heavily dependent on text, so often there is less care taken to the actual photography. In addition, most photostories are part of larger epics and aren't really "stand-alone"... so they may be out of place as a one-shot highlight.

Similarly, box-openings are often quick, purposeful shots that aren't really intended to be "Arty." Box Openings is currently without a Virtue, so there isn't anyone who is regularly reviewing threads posted there either.

The number of responses a gallery thread receives is a constant source of agitation for some people and has been pretty much since the forum's inception. If you do a search, you can find about a million "Why didn't my thread get any comments?" threads going back to 2004. Everything is blamed, from "people like big dolls more than minis" to "no one comments on dolls from Company X/Country Y" to "only popular people get comments."

Deciding to open G+ was a big deal and something that we thought about for awhile before actually doing it; we knew that some people would be put out if their threads weren't chosen, but we also felt that creating an archive of nice threads was important for the community as a whole. In the normal Gallery, we keep every thread unless the image links are dead.... so there are a lot of threads that are basically just "I got a new wig today!" or "My doll has no faceup, but I'm so excited that I want to share" or "I took these in my basement with my cell phone" photos. And while these threads do have value, there's no denying that they're not the best the hobby has to offer. Some people do prefer to just see a digest of well-photographed, finished dolls.

No one has to try to improve if they're happy at their current level. There is a place for everyone from every skill level and every aesthetic. But at the same time, I'll never avoid giving someone a sincere compliment for fear of offending someone else by omission.

*dies* No more subforums!

In all seriousness, are you aware that you can click on the prefix and ONLY see threads with that prefix? For example, if you only want to see "Tiny" threads, you can either filter by that prefix selecting the drop-down at the top of the subforum, or you can click the prefix and it will filter them for you. It's almost like having a separate subforum! You can filter out the things that you don't want to see.

 

I'm not exactly sure why so many people feel that the Gallery+ section is like a popularity contest; the way it is now - with mods picking photos - is fine. If members voted on threads, or even PMed in suggestions (fff...like on other sites...), then it would be like a popularity contest.
For those who photograph their dolls for fun, or because it's just something they do, aren't going to stop just because there's some Gallery+ looming over them. Just because a thread in the normal Gallery isn't in Gallery+ doesn't mean the photos are bad x__x It's not some sort of indirect way to insult members' photos developed by the mods.
I think the Gallery+ section is a good place to get ideas from if nothing else. Those who don't like it, don't look at it. And it is new, so it's not like there's going to be a huge variety at the get go.

 

Sure is. But there's only one way to consistently take good pictures.

 

This quoting thing is retarded....

everyone seemed to miss the part where i said "I dont care", and you DO mean to single me out, because you quoted me. Saying that you "didn't mean to single me out" is a lie you tell yourself to make yourself feel justified in doing so.

People seem to be arguing that you don't HAVE to have "expensive stuff" to take good photos, which is only partly true.

I think gallery + is also a good resource for people just getting into the hobby to see the potential with what they can do with a camera and some creativity.

It's not like I just bashed gallery + to pieces heartlessly.

 

That makes sense, but still doesn't really explain how what was a positive comment about the galleries -- that it's a space to browse that isn't overwhelming -- was taken to be some sort of condemnation of the new gallery area, so I'm a little confused here as well.

The actual thrust of it -- that some people just don't have a lot of interest in galleries, or specifically in this sort of gallery, etc. -- is probably pretty spot on.

It's just not negativity, even if it is a lack of interest. (Or, as in my case, not a complete lack of interest -- just a lack of enough interest to prioritize it over other things that are a bigger draw to me on DoA, or are generally swallowing up my time.)

...and skipping entirely over into the 'the materials make the image' argument, well... I have to agree that it isn't the lens, it isn't the camera, it's 95% 'the eye'. You can take a phenomenal picture on a laughable camera. The best pictures I ever, ever took? On an APS SLR. (Yes, you read that right. An APS SLR. I even have the compatible digital version of it somewhere, and it weighs a ton, and eats batteries so fast it can't be taken out of the house, but DANG that thing has a nice macro lens.) I say this as someone who does have some decent equipment. I have nice lenses, a great camera (that I can't find at the moment), a good external flash -- even a ring flash for more specific stuff. So it isn't about being spendy, which I can say fairly in that... having been spendy, and even having a fairly good eye, that 5% of 'learning what you're doing' is very relevant, and that learning curve actually gets steeper and more daunting with every new piece of equipment you add to the mix, because each one of those things has a learning curve of its own.

I can do my happy little macro stuff that I bought all of that for, getting reference textures and sometimes getting pics of teensy jewelry details for jewelry shows, and that's what it's all there for to me. But honestly... having the equipment is not going to make someone a good photographer. One shouldn't underestimate the power of a quality tool, but the tool of the greatest quality is the one that works best for you. It may be a fully tricked-out studio. It may be a disposable from a convenience store.

I see it as pretty much the opposite of that. Not a place for non-doll people to learn about BJD photography -- but as a place for doll people to learn about a range of what some of the possibilities are if you want to add photography to your enjoyment of collecting.

 

Honestly, I CAN appreciate the idea of the Gallery+ section. Idealistically, it has the potential of being an artistic resource, loaded with ideas, and concepts as well as great photography and art.

My only issue really lies in the long known knowledge, that art is indeed subjective, so if only the Mods and Virtues are selecting what goes into Gallery+, it represents a limited view of a quite subjective viewpoint.

Maybe a suggestion to even that out would be to accept suggestions from the membership? I mean, not everyone can view every gallery thread, so maybe a "group" dynamic, might lessen the thoughts that it is a limited view of what constitutes quality art?

Just ideas I am spitting out..

 

Too bad there's not a way for members to "vote" threads up just like you can vote comments up on youtube.... that would be cool.

 

I don't know about anyone else, but I said "sorry to single you out instead of "don't mean to". You weren't the only person who said it, but you were the last one at the time.

And in that same vein, if you end your post with "I don't care", you're only justifying to yourself that do you don't care. If you truly didn't, you wouldn't post. No one said you bashed the gallery + to pieces, you just said that its a product of people who had more money than others.

Please explain to me how it's only partly true that you don't have to have expensive stuff to take good photos. It's about talent and ability, not money. There are plenty of people who have expensive cameras, dolls with custom faceups and gorgeous outfits who still can't take a decent photo, and there are plenty of people with point and shoots, self done faceups and outfits who would fool you into thinking they spend hundreds of dollars to get things looking as amazing as they did.

 

Agree!! nocturneofsilence


That would be AWESOME!!!

 

That would be the definition of a popularity contest.

 

I occasionally go in the galleries and I just noticed the gallery+ a few weeks ago.

I thought it was a neat idea until I started clicking on threads I had commented on years ago. Now that was a little weird.

While it was nice to see some old shoots and pictures I had liked and had commented on, I couldn't help but feel like I was necroing a thread, especially if it was from years ago and I didn't comment on it back then. XP

But I do like how I can see some great photography in one area. Some pics and shoots are inspiring.

 

I believe the term is "serendipity." Coming as I do from a film background achieving a grainy photograph on purpose is difficult and tends to look contrived. The digital medium has taken away much of the technique and skill of photography due to the software available to correct the photographer's shortcomings. The technical proficiency is all in the camera and software. It could take me hours or days to reproduce with film what I can get with my digital point and shoot and iPhoto.

On the other hand, setting up the shot, lighting it, composing it in the viewfinder is all about what the artist feels when they look at the scene. What they want to convey in the photograph. What they see may not be what you see. What they feel may not be what you feel. You could take a photo of the same scene and come up with something completely different. It has little to do with technique on the part of the photographer. What makes a good photograph isn't just about whether it's in focus or the colors are correct or it follows the rules of thirds or whatever. What some may put forth as an example of a technically proficient photograph I may find boring, contrived, or lacking feeling.

But to get to the original topic, I'm my own worst critic (which is why I seldom make gallery posts) so how on earth could the Gallery+ beat that?

 

Well it could go either way maybe. It could turn into "the person is popular" or it could be people voting up pictures they actually like, I think it would come to a balance eventually, and maybe take some of the pressure off the mods and people wouldn't be tempted to bash them unfairly for favoritism.

In a perfect world it could be cool.

I know it's not really a feasible idea to put into effect, but would be interesting.

 

Honestly Armeleia, I mean no anger or negativity to those whose works have been selected at all. From what I have viewed they have been wonderful, and very visionary, creative excursions. Personally, I am just aware, that the system of choosing said photos (by Mods and Virtues only) inherently creates a situation where MANY posters (not me personally, I have been around a long time and just do my own thing) feel excluded, not viewed, and worse, (due to the heavy focus on some doll brands), completely ignored.

It's a great idea, that has flawed mechanics.

I think if you guys (Mods) revamp the idea, and make it a little more community based/active, it will work alot better and be met with a great deal of joy and delight from members.

 

Armeliea said"That would be the definition of a popularity contest. "


It wouldn't have to be, if it was structured properly.