Gift items: Should they be sold?

Please please PLEASE provide actual debate points in this!!

Is it ethical to sell gift items, like free event heads, or free dolls? What about a doll which comes with two heads?

Ethics are subjective! They cannot be argued or debated! Please narrow down the topic to be debated, extra heads are not the same as a free doll won in an event.

Should the seller only sell the extra parts at the price the item would usually sell for, or accept higher amounts? Is this a concern for free gifts that are not dolls, such as clothing, and if not, why the double standard?

Why are there three topics here? This is an interview question, there are no points to debate.

What about someone who uses a free item to make something new, such as a complete doll out of a free head or a new outfit with a free clothing item?

This has no relevance to the previous questions.

Where is the debate here? Please understand that a debate is a topic with two very clear points that are counter to each other, which are then argued with supported evidence. That's not happening here. Everything covered in these questions has been addressed elsewhere in these forums, and this does nothing to clarify those discussions.

Is this a discussion forum for "controversial" topics in the doll community, or a debate forum to actually debate the topics at hand? Please clarify.

 

I don't see any problems with selling something you got for free. As several people have pointed out, the free item (promotional head, surprise wig, etc) belongs to you, and you can sell anythign you own if you want to. I can understand how individual people may not want to sell something they were actually awarded, though (such as the finalists in the Elfdoll contest). Personally, I have no problem with that on a general ethical level (again, it belongs to you, it's your business if you want to profit from it), but I probably wouldn't do it myself either. I don't really want to profit from the goodwill a company showed me through actively selecting me, but I wouldn't get annoyed if someone else did that.

As for price, I support auction-style listings, so the market can set the price. If I start low and someone who would not otherwise want the product grabs it up, then someone who REALLY wanted that product and is willing to pay more will lose out. If it comes out to more than the item is worth, fine. Personally, I tend to start at less than an item is worth, because I'm more interested in getting rid of random crap around the apartment than making money

If someone adds value to a free item (i.e. by doing a face-up or sticking a head on a body), they have every right to charge extra for their input. It's up to them what the base price would be before they total up the value of their work.

And, I completely disagree that ethics cannot be argued or debated. Perhaps it is impossible to arrive at an objectively correct answer and the debate is therefore pointless, but it is still possible. People do it all the time

 

As the above poster said, this isn't really a debate topic, but I will give my views.

I don't think it's ethical to sell a doll you won. If you didn't want it, you shouldn't have entered for it. And If I knew you'd won it and were selling it, I'd not buy it from you and I'd put you on my list of people that I don't buy from. I share that list with other owners.

I feel the same about event heads. If you don't want it, tell them not to include it so that someone who does want it can have it, or pass it on to someone you know who wants it.

A doll that comes with 2 heads, like a luts special, is part of your purchase, not a gift, so I feel you can do as you like with it.

Perhaps I'm crazy but if something is sent to me for free/as promotion/as a surprise and I don't want it, I pass it on. It didn't cost me so why should it cost someone else? (postage notwithstanding) I got some Bambicrony extras that were not for Gaz so I passed them on to someone who'd use them. I just got an adorable cheerydoll outfit with leggings that don't fit my doll. I'm giving them to someone who has a doll they fit.

The amount of blind greed I see going on with gift/promotional items is actually appalling.

I have no clue what you're asking here.

 

Conversely, you could debate the ethics of hoarding dolls/doll parts that don't particularly interest you, and therefore someone who might really want it is unable to buy it.

 

Personally, I've never really thought it was quite right to sell the gift heads. If I had recieved one I would have found someone to give it away to who I trusted not to turn around and sell it. Of course I understand that it's not a gift but a promotion, but something about selling something you got for free seems unsavoury to me. I don't think it's a bad thing to do, and I understand why people do, but I just wouldn't feel right doing it myself.

I seem to be in a great minority with my opinion!

 

Hi Atsuhiko,

This sub-forum is just getting started, and the tone of it is something we're still working on. From the threads that have already been posted, we're getting a pretty good idea of how people are settling into the idea, and we're now considering how best to present topics.

The 'debate' vs 'discussion' theme which you've touched on here is something we're talking about too. Although this thread topic hasn't been strictly worded, I think there is still a good deal of scope for debate, and I hope it will bring up some interesting opinions - as our previous thread did.

And as always, moderators are just a PM away - if you have questions or concerned then a PM will probably elicit a quicker and fuller response than posting in the middle of a discussion thread will.

I now return you to your scheduled thread.

 

I think we're all generally in agreement hre about the promotional items, but what about truely FREE gifts. Like, say, a free pair of pants from a friend?

I stumbled across a thread in the marketplace of someone who was selling such a thing. I have a problem with this because it wasn't a promo item (meaning you didn't have to buy a doll or x-amount of clothes to get it). It was given freely from one friend to another. In that situation I think it is highly disagreeable with me to sell it!

I've gotten some excellent freebies from friends, and I had to sit back and think...what if I decided to sell such things, how would my friend feel? How would I feel? It doesn't sit well with me, because it was something given without strings attatched, so if you don't like it you could always pass it along to someone who would. But selling it just seems wrong.

 

I'll see about PMing you now - I just find the difference between the purpose of the forum and its execution a little odd, and wanted to see if I was completely alone in that before I tried addressing mods for it (which I see I'm not alone on, even with mods, which is nice. ). If I'd been alone in it, there wouldn't be much point in trying to change it. At any rate, I'll get on that PM now.

 

Freebies from a company for buying $XX worth of items? Those I do not consider gifts-- those are a marketing tool... promo items. If I'd received a Xmas head, I'd absolutely sell it. It's fair game.

Gifts, given unsolicited, are off limits, IMO. A long time ago I ordered a pair of jeans and a shirt from Tensiya. To show thanks for supporting her new business, Anu included another pair of jeans, two shirts, and an apron. That's a lot more than my original order! I had/have no use for a doll sized apron, but I wouldn't feel right selling it-- I'd give it away first.

 

If I bought a doll and the company gave me a head as a promotional gift I really wouldn't have a hard time turning around and trading or selling it. If I didn't want the head and had no intention ever of making a doll out of it. It's best for the doll head to find another owner who would appreciate it. What doll really wants to become a practise head for faceups or experiments?

I really can't bash people for selling an unwanted promo or gift to get something they really want or to help fund another doll. Everyone has thier own taste. The odds are that a random gift from a company isn't going to fall into everyones likes.

I would feel different if it was an actual person you knew and gave you the item. I have given away things that were given to me.

I doubt very few people here have not bought something on the secondary market.

 

I don't think it's wrong to sell something like an event head if you had to spend money to get it. Like, you wouldn't have a chance to get the item if you hadn't spent that money in the first place, so selling it to make up for a portion of the money you spent to get it seems ethical to me.

As far as the amount of money goes, I think it would be passable to sell it for more than it's worth if the buyer were willing to pay in certain situations. For example, event heads that you can only get within in a certain amount of time. They would basically be rare items, because you wouldn't be able to get them again except from a second party seller, so perhaps they could be considered more valuable than a standard head that you could get any time you pleased.

I think the situation is very similar with clothes and other "gift" items, if you had to spend money to get them, then I think you have the right to ask for money for them in return.

But really, it's on a case-by-case basis. If someone really wants a certain item and is willing to pay for said item, should the seller turn down a little extra money?

 

Er... Pretty sure that CP has no set number of heads, they cast after they see the number of orders they have in... But I have to say that there are some real gray areas in this question. This past year I actually did put in an order of over the $500 to Luts because I really fell in love with the 2006 Juri. However, because I ordered together with a friend to save on shipping Luts refused to send me my own head. Because someoneone was kind enough to sell me their head (At a fair market price, I might add) I now have a much beloved doll.

However, when someone enters into a contest to get a specific doll in order to rake in loads of cash for selling it, I do get a very bad impression of their character. I feel that they really have taken away from the people who entered because they really did fall in love with the doll. It may be a bit romantic and naieve of me, and the people who would do something like that will go on doing it regardless of anything we say, but I guess that's just the way the world works sometimes...
But really, anyone who would pay $300 for a head that others are selling for $100 is just getting what they deserve, even if it does just encourage the scalpers.

 

I'm not sure if my thoughts are going to make sense, but overall I think in most cases it's ok to sell things like extra "gift" heads, extra clothes, etc. for their full value or whatever is offered.

If you recieve something that's of no use to you, but the money from it would be, couldn't you consider the money as your "free gift," even though you've exchanged your item for it? The way I would think of the situation would be as still retaining the value of the gift you were given (monetarily speaking), but letting the item go to someone else.

I'm not saying that's the morally correct way to think of it in all situations, but just a thought.

 

I don't see any problem with selling gift heads. It's nice if people do want to give them away, but I don't think anyone should feel like they're doing something wrong by selling them.

I don't think it's great to sell free stuff for ridiculously high prices though. There's really no way to stop people from doing that, but hopefully no one will buy it if it's an unfair price.

 

I honestly see no problem in selling "gift" items. 95% of the time (in my field of retail,) if it isn't a special promotion (which the gift heads clearly fall into) it's usually to clear out extra stock of an item. We do this frequently when people buy sewing machines from us at my workplace. I would have no qualms about myself nor anyone else turning around and selling off the extra stuff on Ebay or something. We gave it to them, it is their decision.

From smaller companies, I can see some of the items being more giftlike, instead of "freebie"-like, I think someone mentioned a Tensiya order that came off more like this. This is more of an emotional feeling to me, as you can feel honored that you were given these extra items. But the same issue applies, I see no problem if you decide that the items are not for you, and you sell them. I find it a bit tacky when people price promotional items exorbantly above their average price, but if someone is willing to pay? Hey, whatever floats their boat, welcome to a market economy.

In the case of the Sei-tenshi, I understand the concept behind the dolls being a special gift. If I were ever to win one, I would probably hold onto it, unless I had financial problems. But at the same time, I'm not going to pass judgement on another who sold it. Maybe they never cared in the first place, maybe they had unexpected expenses come up. Whatever the reason, it is not my concern. The lack of "normal" price for the Sei-tenshi makes it hard for me to guess an average price for them, but once again, the market decides what it is willing to pay. If someone posted a Sei-tenshi for sale at $5000, I would definately raise an eyebrow (or two.) That would teeter close to the "tacky" thing I mentioned above, but that is an entirely personal opinion.

I am generally in agreement with you, I find it rather silly to pass judgement on a person who sells a gift doll, because you never know the circumstances. It is usually pretty obvious if the person got it solely for re-selling it at a substantial profit, aka scalping, but one cannot always assume. What if selling this doll is the only way they have a place to live for another month? That would imply lack of ability to handle one's finances , but I'm not going to pass judgement and say "keep the doll, it's more important then your apartment." But I am digressing, I suppose the moral of the story is avoid scalpers, and don't be quick to pass judgement.

I find your statement rather harsh, but I think I understand where you are coming from. I would agree in the case of scalpers, but not in the case of a person that might have issues and have to sell it to survive/pay bills/pay rent. I would find it unfair to judge someone in that situation.

In the case of the event heads, though, I am in complete disagreement. When CP/Luts states that event heads will be given out from x-date to x-date, that basically states that there is no set number. I would find it rather silly to pass up on the head that 1. you may like once you see it, or 2. you sell it at a fair market price to make a little back from the purchase. I find it no different than a discount at a store. Instead of a monetary discount, we are going to throw X items in, congratulations. We do it all the time at work.

~Anrui

 

this i agree with, personally. something that was given, unsolicited, as a gift... just up and selling it feels rude and inconsiderate, to me. on the other hand, ASKING the giver if they would be hurt if you sold or traded the item makes a world of difference. this is one case where asking permission first is a better idea than asking forgiveness later.

 

I agree with above that ethics are subject and a personal thing. I got a Juri head from Luts and I kept it for a little while but didn't think I would ever really do anything with it and so I sold it. I sold it at a similar price to what other heads sell for on the Luts page.

I would feel bad selling a gift a friend gave to me, but when it's a company and it's something I'm not interested in I think it's fine.

 

I agree with April,
something is only worth as much as someone is willing to pay for it.
The fact that people who own 'gift' items had to pay for something or go somewhere special to get it then technically they did pay for it one way or another.

As for selling them, I guess the owners are entitled to ask a price, or auction according to what the demand for the item is,

fictional example: Volks makes 20 Limited edition hand signed by the artist heads, but to get one you have to buy $2000 worth of product on a particular day at an allocated time, the owner may not care for the sculp and have no use for the extra bits, whilst "jane doe" can not afford the thousands of dollas worth of products but can afford a couple of hundred to buy the head on the secondary market, both parties are happy!!

All in all, I have no problem paying for something even if they were initially a purchase incentive, if we cant get them free in the first place why not buy them?

 

Is it ethical to sell gift items, like free event heads, or free dolls? What about a doll which comes with two heads?

With me, if I was to get an extra head and I didn't like how it looked I think it's okay to sell it as I have no use for it, but perhaps someone else just loves it. Why not make both happy? Also it's not really about ethics, as opinion of ethics in the community is varied between individuals. I might think it's okay but the next person might be appauled I think like that. If someone would like the part I have no use for and would like to purchase it, good both of us win.

Should the seller only sell the extra parts at the price the item would usually sell for, or accept higher amounts? Is this a concern for free gifts that are not dolls, such as clothing, and if not, why the double standard?

This depends on what the extra part is and if it is available in one way or another through the website where the doll was purchased from. If it were say an FCS ONLY Volks item, a higher amount would be okay as it is only available through a custom and not on the website. Clothing is another depends on type of thing with me. If the outfit were not available except for a short period of time, sure it deserves to be sold at a higher price than a similar outfit. If it were a default outfit and just simply didn't like it and the only way to get that outfit was by ordering the doll, sure it would be okay by me to sell it for a little more. I do not think a double standard exsists between a clothing item or an extra doll part if it is not needed by the person who purchased it.

What about someone who uses a free item to make something new, such as a complete doll out of a free head or a new outfit with a free clothing item?

At first the wording of the question was really confusing, but as what I thought it meant was "using extra head on a seperate purchased body" or "modifing a gift clothing item to suit my needs". So with that, who honestly cares other than the person that is doing that? Why does it matter what others think if it's going on my doll that I look at everyday? It is honestly none of their business what I do and as someone who cosplays, if I find a piece of clothing that gets me more than half way done with my project and be able to complete it with a couple of things added or taken away, hey I'm cool with that and it saved me a lot of time and effort.