Gift items: Should they be sold?

I think most of my thoughts are captured by others but thought I'd jump in and summarize them.
"Gift" can mean different things
a "buy one get one free" is really "buy 2 and we'll give you 50% off" - its not free. Personally, if I were to sell one of the free items in an auction setting, I'd start the price at what I paid and let economics take over (supply and demand).
Buy x and get a free y is not that much different. You would not get the y unless you bought the x and so I think its 'paid' for. Sometimes, I've wanted the 'gift' more than the item and consider it the cost of the gift and will sell the item.
Outright winning something - in a normal lottery type situation, you entered, you win, its yours. You can keep it, give it away or sell it if you want again, supply and demand will determine the price. But to be 'fair' I dont enter a lottery if I know up front that I dont want the prize, but thats me.
Winning something because you said you needed it (wrote a plea for it) and then selling it is more like a scam. If you need the item, you wont sell it. Times can change and you may not need it in the future. It would be 'nice' if you could return the favor, but there is no requirement.
A gift from a friend. Well, I'd approach the friend first to let them know that you are and why. Even the nicest gesture doesnst mean you want/need the gift.

Overall, I say just be honest. If someone wants to sell an item s/he legally owns, s/he should be able to. Again, economics will drive the ending price in an auction, but the starting price is up to the seller. Morally, I personally would feel obliged to say that I got it as a gift, or a lottery or a sale. That doesn't mean I have to give it away or start it at a lower price. My choice and the choice of the bidder(s) as to the end price.

 

I figured someone would bring this point up as it has come up before. My take on it is that when you choose to sell to customers in a particular country, then you have to respect their culture. If we were all running over to Japan just to enter contests, get the "gift" dolls and bring them back to the US to sell for high dollar value, I might think that was crass. But Volks and other companies choose to come here to the US and sell to us. To me, that means if they would like our business, they have to accept our "consumerist" attitude and the fact that we may have a different conception of gift-giving.

In short, when you pursue a customer, the customer is the one whose views must be respected, not so much the seller.

I realize that a lot of people in the doll world, even if they themselves are Westerners, have feeling/empathy for Asian values/culture and maybe think that is a better way than Western "consumer culture", but not every Western doll buyer is also buying into the whole "culture of gifts" and we should not have to do that in order to enjoy the dolls. I also think that if someone is losing interest in, or just doesn't feel comfortable having, an expensive "gift" doll, that that doll is better off with someone else who will enjoy, treasure and appreciate it than becoming a burden on its keeper by the person having to hold onto it forever.

Furthermore, I have seen Sei-Tenshi and the like sold on Y!J, presumably by Japanese sellers, so it's not like this is something that never, ever happens except when Westerners get into the act.

 

lol, that's the exact point I made a few posts back. I'm glad to see I wasn't the only one thinking in that direction. With more dolpas overseas than here in la and nyc I suppose it makes sense that more seis are going to end up on Y!J as opposed to ebay, but still. I'd be interested in hearing what the Japanese bjd community has to say on this issue, just for comparison.

 

I received a sd size head from luts as a gift when i bought my ani. I perfer MSD dolls. so i had no need for the head. If i was going keep it. it was only going to be used to practice face-ups on. But instead i decided to sell it to someone who would actually use it. A doll head isnt something to waste
Has for the money i got for the head it went back to luts for an outfit so in my book no feelings hurt If it would have been a MSD head i would have used it

 

Hm. I guess there are really three types of situation here.
Situation 1: You get a gift/promotional item from a company because you bought something during a specific period, or bought a certain amount of things, or have been a good customer in the past, etc.
Situation 2: You win an item in a contest or lottery, either without having to make a purchase or with a very small purchase (i.e. a raffle ticket).
Situation 3: You get something as a gift from an individual (a friend or individual clothing maker, or what have you but not a large company), either with a paid item, or totally out of the blue.

Situation 1, I think it's totally fine to sell whatever you don't want to keep. If you want to give it away or only charge what you paid for shipping on it, then that's great. But I don't think there's anything wrong, at all, with selling. It was included as part of a monetary business transaction, as a reward for spending money. And free items really don't have a regular price- if a company sells heads for $100 normally, should a gift head be $100? Well, not necessarily. If anyone could go buy it for $100 then anyone would. But they can't, it was part of a special promotion and they did not participate. So if they want that item outside of the promotion, I don't see why someone should sell it for the "regular" price when it was never actually available for that price. Sure, it would be nice if they were only sold auction style with a low starting price to reflect the fact that it was a freebie, but if someone prices it too high, and someone is willing to pay that amount, can you really blame the seller? : /

Situation 2, I also think it can be okay to sell. A lot of people enter contests thinking "well why not?" even if the prize isn't something they have a burning need for, or enter a contest or raffle with many prizes when some are ones they'd like and some are not. And what if you enter a contest for a doll you really like, but when you take them home you just don't "click"? Should you hold onto the doll because they were a prize/gift? Or should you sell them to someone who may appreciate them much more? Or even if you don't want to sell but have to (because lets face it, when you have medical bills, rent, mortgage, etc to pay off, suddenly you start to see the dollar signs in all of your posessions). Is it better to let a pet die rather than sell an exclusive prize doll for enough money to pay for their veterinary treatments?

As for situation 3, well I think that's a bit more touchy. In general, if I got something as a personal gift from someone I feel bad getting rid of it, even if I don't want or like it and never use it. Over the last couple of years I've had two big wardrobe "purges" where I got rid of literally hundreds of items of clothing (my clothes, not dolls here XD), many of which I'd held onto because they were gifts and even though I never wore them I felt bad about getting rid of them. In the end I gave them to goodwill- they'll help somebody else out much more than they helped me sitting in a closet taking up space and gathering dust. I wouldn't have had a problem selling them for cheap, like at a garage sale, but I just couldn't be bothered. So if something is a personal gift I think it's a bit rude to sell it for a high price, unless (as in situation 2) you are in dire financial need, and in that case I think the gift-giver would (hopefully) understand that the money will help you far more than the original gift... unless they want to give you the money so that you can keep the gift and still pay for whatever it was you needed XD

 

I believe if you own the item it is of your choice to do with as you want. Whether its to give away or to sell. If someone is willing to buy it (at a reasonable price) then I dont see what the problem is. No one forces us to purchase anything ... Right?? Atleast thats my opinion.

 

I would expect most people from the USA to believe as the vast majority here do. And there are many sides to this issue. However, for the sake of gentle argumentation, let me provide at least one cogent analogy.

When you receive a birthday gift, a shower gift, a wedding gift, whether that gift came from a friend, a relative, or an acquaintance, it is considered crass -- even in US culture -- to re-gift that item. The position on selling such items is similar -- although one does eventually find nearly everything tucked away in a corner at a garage sale, some umpteen years down the road.

Yes, the "gift" is yours, so TECHNICALLY you can do whatever you want with it. But sometimes, the things that ARE right and what we believe SHOULD be right are different.

Somebody mentioned that if Asian companies want to sell to us, they should, essentially, shut up and deal. I again gently remind those involved in this debate that we were the ones who solicited the dolls to begin with. It was our people going to anime events and others who came across the dolls to begin with. In the early years (which weren't so very long ago), the only way we could obtain these dolls and their assorted and sundry accoutrement was by going to Japan/Korea and buying them ourselves, or by purchasing them through deputy purchasing services.

And again, it's yours. Who's going to know, huh? And yes, there are many who have benefited through the redistribution of these gifts. BTW, I do not consider "buy one, get one 50% off" a gift. A gift is what it is. A thing given free of remuneration.

And yet....

This is not as cut and dried an issue as, on the surface, it looks as if it should be.

Now, as I pointed out before, there is ample "ammunition" for any point of view an individual would wish to put forth on these boards. However, I would like to suggest that if, ultimately, it proves to be too distressing or stressful to deal with a voracious (and not always particularly polite) abjd-buying U.S. population, the same companies who have extended the courtesy of selling directly to us can just as well rescind that privilege, at which point things could well go back to the way they were at the beginning. Although I, for one, am comfortable purchasing things through deputy services, I should hate to see that become our only option.

Pace!

 

I think that once you've earned something rightfully- either by winning an item or buying something in order ot receive it as a gift, once it's yours- you're free to do whatever you want with it.
Let's say... If you got it as a personal gift, as in got a present from a doll maker because of your friendship with him etc., and not as a part of a general event in which everyone had an equal chance to participate and get the gift- then it wouldn't be nice to sell it, because there's just something much more personal and meaningful in receiving a personal gift intended especially for you.
That's why, for instance, I'll never sell nor give away presents I get from private sellers when I buy dolls from them-- Because I know it's meant especially for me as a thank you.
But if it was a commercial gift, which loads of other people got and there's nothing too personal about it- then it's okay to sell it.
The price issue is up to the buyer- if buyers are willing to pay extra for something they know someone got for free, it's their choice.

 

I think of the free items as the toy in a Happy Meal. They say the items are free, but with as much money as we pay for our dolls,...yeah, I paid for that free item. And since I didn't get the gift from someone I know, instead of regifting, I'd sell it if I could get money from it!

 

Julie M:

This makes it sound like every US bjd buyer typifies the stereotypical "ugly american" to such a degree as to negate any and all advantages of expanding one's business to an overseas market. That hardly seems fair. Remember that while the majority of people on this board and in the new bjd "boom" in general are Americans, this is an international community. Whether or not the world has been poisoned by US/Western business philosophy (a valid point) is an enormous topic, too broad to go into here in any detail, but there are quite a few European, Austrailan, New Zealand, and Asian users present too.
Also, it's worth noting that while it may not be a majority, quite a few westerners in the bjd hobby have either a larger interest in, or some other involvement with, one or more Asian cultures. There is room for different takes on this, even among those who are culturally aware. In other words, not agreeing about the central issue of selling gifts/freebies doesn't automatically betray cultural ignorance.

Then again, if your prediction should prove true, I'm sure more people could figure out the buying services just like we used to do "pre-boom"

 

I agree with what Selmada said - furthermore, from a bit of a company perspective ( I just speak from our perspective, Featherfall's, to give an example); two scenarios:

1. We had a contest a couple of months ago. The winners got one of our LE outfits, the Queen of Masks, a kimono of their choice and an accessory of their choice ( by ranking).

2. We have a promotion called the No Naked Doll Campaign, where every doll purchased through us will come with a random free kimono ( made by us).

Now, these are ALL things we sell in our store. They are points of revenue for us. By including them as promotions, prizes or gifts, we are no longer making money from those specific items.

However, why do we do it? Several reasons. For one, all agents that sell the type of dolls we currently carry have to sell them at the same price. What makes us stand out? That ours won't come naked, but with a nice, free kimono - that way you are getting more for your money's worth.

Another reason is that we really appreciate your business. Its our way of saying 'thank you' . It's also a good advertising for us, as we're sure once people see our product up close they will love it, take it to meets, show it /tell their friends -- and our reputation for our clothing lines will grow too. Everybody wins.

Now - we don't say to any of our customers, or the contest winners "You may never sell this outfit!"; once they receive it its theirs to do as they please. Some people aren't into the kimono as much - so why shouldn't they be able to use our free gift to barter for something they actually have use for, or sell it if they need to? A gift is a gift. Once it leaves the giver's hands, we just hope the recipient will enjoy it.

It may become a concern if suddenly there were a hundred Featherfall kimono for sale for pennies, as that might drive our prices down - but from everything we have seen in the markets, people usually charge either what a similar outfit would be worth or a bit more.

My two cents..

 

Free items, like the free head promotion, are nice gestures, but they're also promotional items meant to generate sales. I see no problem with selling them if you don't want them.

Selling Sei-tenshi or whole gift dolls....I don't think it's ethically wrong to sell them, but it can come across as rather tacky. Taste, however, is subjective and shouldn't be involved in moral debates. I'm not sure what I would do if I were to win a Sei-tenshi and not like it, and that is indeed a possibility. On one hand I would love to raise a fair chunk of a change for bills or an elusive "Never thought I could afford it" doll. On the other hand, the doll community is fairly judgemental about the sales of dolls.

Selling personal gifts from friends and family, that's a much more personal matter and something you could easily ASK the person about. My first doll was a gift and he was no longer working for me. I did feel bad about wanting to sell a gift, so I just told the friends who had given to me how I felt. They were fine with it and am happy I am using the money raised from his sale to get a new doll.

 

that is very true. I think it's useful for a company's point of view. At the end of the day if what is 'given' to the new owner is being sold at the original price and isn't causing problems i don't find it unethnical

 

People should be able to sell gift items because once it gets to their house, it's theirs, so they can do whatever they want with it.

 

True.. other person's junk maybe another person's treasure..

 

Just my 2 cents. There's nothing un-ethical about selling a gift or a promotional item regardless or whether it comes from a company or another party(friend etc. . .) The item is yours. I do wonder about groups orders and how extras should be handled with them.

Lets say there's a group order and the company adds an extra doll head, or some random eyes or other goodies. How should those be treated or divided amount the group order participants?

For me(if I was running the group order) personally it would probably vary depending on the value of the items added. Like if it was a doll head I would try to sell it and then refund some of the ems shipping amount the participants or waive the shipping from me to them. For smaller value items like extra eyes I might offer them to the person who had the biggest order in the group as they probably would have gotten them if had done an order on their own.

 

No way! You do a group order, (especially a big one!) you should get to keep any freebies, especially if you ordered too. (That's my opinion anyway.)

 

In a way I get this, but if you only got the freebies because of the size of the group order(for example, dollmore is doing a promotion where if you order 5 pairs of eyes they'll toss in an random pair or eyes) The organizer should get something(because the organization is a lot of work and worry), but I think everyone in the group should get something too even if it's just a waiver of the shipping costs. Like I said that's how I would do it, I doubt I'll look down on anyone who would do something different.

 

(bolded for empasis)

I think this is a huge thing to remember. Until you have that free doll, you don't really know what you would do with it.

I remember going to the LA Tea Party and hoping to get a Sei Tenshi so I could auction it and have money for a School C or one of my other dream FCS dolls. But you know what- after seeing a friend win one, I don't think I could have sold it if I had won too. It's so easy to say "I would never sell such-and-such" but until you have it, you just don't know. Now I want a Sei Tenshi to keep!

***

I think a lot of what bothers people are the circumstances or prices under which those "free" dolls are sold. If a person has to sell a gift doll, like a Sei Tenshi, to pay for medical or other real life emergencies, they shouldn't be judged. I don't think a person should be judged if they do it to raise money for a doll they like better either, but that seems to be one area where it gets iffy (this is why I like the idea of trading better). And then there's the whole "scalper!" thing I posted about earlier. I'm personally not a fan of auctions, but if you have to/want to sell a doll for profit, it is a fair way to do it, and no one should complain, because you're (the seller) not the one who set the final price.

 

Well both my free heads i got were only by chance like with my Juri 06 i only got it because i wanted my el, i didnt buy my el for the head but just because i wanted him so bad and if i hadnt brought him then i would never have got him again.
An to tell you the truth the head freaked me out, so i didnt see a point in keeping it. An when people are low on cash and want something else really bad why not sell everything you don want.
I personally dont see a problem in selling them on at least someone will show them love. An if that sale can help fund my next doll why not.