Have's and Have-Not's?

May 16, 2010

    1. I apologize if this has already been discussed in another thread and welcome deletion if the moderators deem it appropriate.

      Personal Experience that Initiated Thread Idea:

      Something, well, uncomfortable happened to me the other day and I've been left feeling verrrrrry guilty. I recently sent two dolls for new face-ups and had bought outfits from the previous Dolpa in Kyoto which were waiting for them when they returned. They returned yesterday and I immediately dressed them (I've been waiting months!) and photographed them. Then, as many others do, I shared them on Flickr. For the most part people were positive and I appreciated their comments. But, I felt incredibly guilty when someone started messaging me about the outfits and the materials and the availability. The sad truth is that they simply aren't available anywhere except the last Dolpa. If they were available I'd happily help someone get them. I'm not someone who cares if my dolls are unique as long as I love them. As a result, I felt incredibly guilty that the outfits were not accessible for the person inquiring about them.

      Debate Questions:

      1) How do you react when you see an outfit, accessory or doll you absolutely love and want to have? In your opinon, what are the rights and wrongs when reacting to someone else's BJD-related possessions?

      2) Have you ever resented someone personally for their BJD-related possessions? In your opinion, is it possible for people to resent someone personally for the items they have?

      3) Is elitism a myth or a reality of the hobby? Is the concept of "elitism" created by the "Have's" or the "Have-Not's" or a combination of both and does it extend to everyone or a few people in the hobby?

      4) Does the hobby itself even have "Have's" and "Have-Nots"? Or is it a matter of being happy with what one has versus what one wishes he/she had?

      For the record, my BJD collection is quite modest. I don't have a lot of difficult to find items because I really ~hate~ being in a position where I feel guilty for having them. I don't think that the person inquiring was being hurtful. She only really wanted her dolls to have outfits like that, too. I can understand that and sympathize with her position. I hold no ill will towards her.
       
    2. You know, even if they are not readily available, the person who asked about your outfits may use that info to track one down on Yahoo Japan or the marketplace here. :) Just because something isn't available retail doesn't mean it's impossible to find anywhere or that you have to feel guilty for owning it!

      1) How do you react when you see an outfit, accessory or doll you absolutely love and want to have? In your opinon, what are the rights and wrongs when reacting to someone else's BJD-related possessions?

      If I see something I like and may want to buy, I'll ask the owner where it's from... it doesn't necessarily mean I'll buy that exact same item but sometimes it opens my eyes to a shop or seamstress I've never seen before. Sometimes I see something else they've made that I like. Sometimes I just window shop and browse and don't feel the need to buy anything. I would never ask an owner if I could buy their own doll or outfit or what have you unless I already knew they were selling it, that's just rude. I don't think there's anything rude about asking where something beautiful came from though. If I saw a friend wearing a necklace I liked or with an interesting print on their wall or a cute tote bag or whatever... I'd probably ask where they got it too.

      2) Have you ever resented someone personally for their BJD-related possessions? In your opinion, is it possible for people to resent someone personally for the items they have?

      Sure, it's possible. I don't think I'm personally the type to get jealous or resentful of someone over material goods they own.

      3) Is elitism a myth or a reality of the hobby? Is the concept of "elitism" created by the "Have's" or the "Have-Not's" or a combination of both and does it extend to everyone or a few people in the hobby?

      Elitism does exist... but it's not one group of elites. It's the attitude of the owner, really. There are some people who think Volks is the best company and would never buy a doll from anywhere else. There are some who think Volks are ugly and prefer Soom or CP or Iplehouse or whatever other company/style/artist. They may all have an "elitist" attitude, or it may just be their personal taste and they're happy to see dolls from other companies/countries/styles owned by other people. But I don't think there's one solid elite group in the doll hobby... because everyone admires something different about these dolls.

      4) Does the hobby itself even have "Have's" and "Have-Nots"? Or is it a matter of being happy with what one has versus what one wishes he/she had?

      I don't know, if you have a doll worth hundreds of bucks, even if it's from one of the cheaper companies and doesn't wear fancy clothes, you're kind of a "have" anyway, aren't you? People are in this hobby for so many reasons, someone with one doll they painted and dressed themself but which represents a character of theirs may prefer their doll over a dozen fullset limiteds. I do think it's about attitude in a lot of cases, and about the individual goals and tastes in the hobby. I also think that the way a third party decides who the "haves and have nots" are reflects that person's taste more than anything else.
       
    3. I actually don't understand why you feel guilty at all. Just because you have something that someone else admires and wants doesn't mean that it is YOUR fault that they can't get it. Isn't buying customizable dolls all about making them unique, individual, and truly yours? If it isn't then maybe we should all buy the exact same doll with the exact same faceup and clothing so that no one ever feels bad or left out.

      Good grief, if I felt that way I'd never be able to knit anything original without feeling guilty that EVERYone is not capable of knitting something for their doll just like it.
       
    4. Firstly -- oh goodness, don't feel guilty! There are so many things in this world that can cause the stress guilt inflicts on you; owning something pretty that might not be in regular circulation shouldn't be one of them. ^^

      1) How do you react when you see an outfit, accessory or doll you absolutely love and want to have? In your opinon, what are the rights and wrongs when reacting to someone else's BJD-related possessions?

      If it's something I seriously adore, I ask what it is. If it's something I NEED OMG (and can afford), then I go about finding it. Doesn't really matter if I can get it retail or not. I'd say that the rights are being admiring, appreciative, asking for details if you want them...the WRONGS would be making someone else feel bad/guilty for owning something they liked. That's just bad form, yo.

      2) Have you ever resented someone personally for their BJD-related possessions? In your opinion, is it possible for people to resent someone personally for the items they have?

      It is indeed possible for someone to resent a person for the items they have, though I really can't say that I resent anyone else for owning more than I do. Other people have more money than I do. That's ok, I recognize that, and I'm happy with what I have. I consider myself lucky to have as much as I do! ;) I have, however, seen people grumbling about parties who have more dolls/particularly impressive dolls, like it's some kind of personal slight to them that this person owns serious pretties. I...don't understand this. It's not like they bought the pretties just to spite you, after all, so why are you acting like they did? (Anyone who thinks I'm making that up is most likely too new to the hobby to remember the Bermann craze of a few years ago.)

      3) Is elitism a myth or a reality of the hobby? Is the concept of "elitism" created by the "Have's" or the "Have-Not's" or a combination of both and does it extend to everyone or a few people in the hobby?

      It is a reality of the hobby -- and it goes both ways. Anyone who seriously thinks elitism doesn't exist among owners of inexpensive dolls is seriously deluding themselves; for every snippy person who turns their nose up at more economical dolls there's an owner of one of said economical dolls turning their nose up at expensive dolls because they're somehow snobbish and pretentious. I'm of the opinion that true elitism is much, MUCH rarer than some parties would like to make it out to be though. Personal company preference isn't elitism, no matter how much certain parties would love to pretend it is. Most of the doll people I've had the pleasure to meet are very nice, intelligent, fun to be around *coughandtotallyenablingcough* people. Elitism exists, but the idea that it's incredibly widespread is largely a myth created by people with persecution complexes. ;)

      4) Does the hobby itself even have "Have's" and "Have-Nots"? Or is it a matter of being happy with what one has versus what one wishes he/she had?

      That second bit is it, right there. It's all about mentality. Truthfully, I consider myself a "Have". My collection is neither extensive nor impressive. I don't own any rare or particularly spendy dolls, nor do I consider my dolls dazzlingly exceptional examples of their molds -- but I am totally happy and satisfied with what I own. There are other dolls I'd like to own, but I don't spend my days moping or grumbling because I don't own them. The true "Have-Nots" are the people who can't get over the fact that someone else owns something THEY want. They grump, they gripe, they get seriously entitled and start claiming that they should somehow get a better chance at an item just because they want it...yeah. It's mentality. You can be a "Have" with one inexpensive doll, and you can be a "Have-Not" with fifty seriously expensive dolls. I guess the question is -- what would you (generic 'you' in effect) prefer to be considered?

      ...oh my god why can I never post anything concise? I feel like a politician whose speech setting is permanently stuck on 'filibuster'. :sweat
       
    5. 1) How do you react when you see an outfit, accessory or doll you absolutely love and want to have? In your opinion, what are the rights and wrongs when reacting to someone else's BJD-related possessions?
      I can't possibly think of a bad way, honestly. :sweat I've been guilty of asking if someone remembers what style or color of a wig their doll is modeling or what outfit they're wearing on many an occasion. A lot of the time I'm not even looking for that item, but something like it. I'll use that item to show someone and ask them if they can help me find something like it. Or I'll be looking for a style of wig which I'd only seen on an SD and ask someone if their YoSD is modeling the same wig, as I am unsure since it seems a lot longer on the YoSD. It's the curiosity of wondering if I order that wig in the future, will the length be the same on a YoSD but just scaled down, or will it be smaller but also slightly longer. Orrrr I'll ask about a wig/outfit/shoe/whatever to find an owner picture of something. A lot of wigs look different in studio lighting than they do in normal lighting, so I'm really just looking for a real life example of the wig color rather than actually looking for the wig.

      2) Have you ever resented someone personally for their BJD-related possessions? In your opinion, is it possible for people to resent someone personally for the items they have?
      I never have personally, no. I actually get inspired seeing the wonderful BJD things some people have, it gives me hope of being where I want to be in the hobby one day. Though I do believe it is possible for some people to give in to petty envy if it is present, after all, I've seen people get jealous of another person's keyring, so I know it is possible to be jealous over anything, dolls or no.

      3) Is elitism a myth or a reality of the hobby? Is the concept of "elitism" created by the "Have's" or the "Have-Not's" or a combination of both and does it extend to everyone or a few people in the hobby?
      I believe elitism exists everywhere, in hobbies, fashion, art. I have never seen more than one person in the doll hobby acting in an elitist manner, so I don't think it's as wide-spread as many people claim. I think a lot of people cry 'elitist!' at things which are not, but happen to offend them.

      4) Does the hobby itself even have "Have's" and "Have-Nots"? Or is it a matter of being happy with what one has versus what one wishes he/she had?
      I think there's such as thing as a healthy medium. You can be happy with what you have and still have dreams for other things, I don't find anything wrong with that. If you don't have something now, it doesn't mean you never will.
       
    6. I've got to agree with Wovenflame on this one. Not only might the person in question be able to use the information they asked for to track down the outfits on the secondary market (assuming they're just Dolpa-limited in some way, and not one-offs), but I just don't understand why you'd feel guilty for something like that.

      As to the elitism question: of course elitism exists. However, I don't think that the way the majority of the people in the hobby use the word is accurate. I know many people who primarily (or only) own dolls from one company. That doesn't make them elitist - it just means that those companies happen to have a style that aligns with that person's tastes. And in in many cases, that doesn't include ALL of the company's dolls, but just the specific ones that person has purchased. I wouldn't consider a person elitist unless their attitude and actions led me to believe that they actively looked down on the products put out by companies other than the one/ones they were purchasing from. For example, I don't own any dolls from Dream of Doll, and can confidently say that I probably never will, because their sculpting style is just a little too "young" to fit in with my tastes and crew, but that doesn't mean I think that Dream of Dolls are poorly constructed or in some way "lesser" than the dolls I do own! As with any commodity-based activity in which brand names and/or limited editions come into play, I think that the "have-or-have-not" concept you're suggesting can potentially be a component of true elitism, in situations where a person is gloating in a "I have it and you don't, ha hah ha ha," sort of way, but I also don't think that behavior or attitude is the norm for this hobby (or most hobbies similar to this one).

      Most people here on DoA are more likely to admire the dolls and (photographic) displays of others, rather than covet them. Even when I see something I want, if I can't get one of my own, or make a reasonable approximation, I'm content to look at those that belong to others and are being shared in the Galleries. I think that's true of most of us.
       
    7. First off, echoing what other people said. Don't feel guilty because you own something that someone else likes!

      1) How do you react when you see an outfit, accessory or doll you absolutely love and want to have? In your opinon, what are the rights and wrongs when reacting to someone else's BJD-related possessions?
      The only wrong way to react to someone else's BJD-related possessions is "I WANT IT GIVE IT TO ME," no matter how politely the sentiment may be phrased. (I'm assuming you're limiting the question to the state of ownership of the BJD-possessions and not, say, the construction of said possession.) Personally, I've never run into something doll-related I would die without, so I don't honestly know how I would react. It would probably involve Google-fu.

      2) Have you ever resented someone personally for their BJD-related possessions? In your opinion, is it possible for people to resent someone personally for the items they have?
      Resenting someone for any possession of theirs is a waste of energy. It's certainly possible, it certainly happens and I certainly am guilty of that particular sin, but instead of seething, I try to channel the energy into something more conducive to being able to own nice things of my own. After all, it's not RandomPerson's fault that they had the time/money/luck I didn't.

      3) Is elitism a myth or a reality of the hobby? Is the concept of "elitism" created by the "Have's" or the "Have-Not's" or a combination of both and does it extend to everyone or a few people in the hobby?
      I've seen some people who considered themselves of the elite, but it divides more along the lines of how the dolls are taken care of or total money spent, not YOU MUST HAVE A DOLL FROM COMPANY X, CLOTHES THAT ARE BRAND Y, AND A FACEUP FROM ARTIST Z. Elitism stems from insecurity, so of course there's going to be a handful of people who can only make themselves feel better about not owning an LE by thinking someone else's is dirty or ... whatever.

      4) Does the hobby itself even have "Have's" and "Have-Nots"? Or is it a matter of being happy with what one has versus what one wishes he/she had?
      I'm not quite sure what you mean by this question. There's certainly people who are happy about what they have, people who work to get what they want, and people who sit there and hope if they whine loud enough what they want will drop out of the sky into their laps. But that's just how people work.
       
    8. 1) How do you react when you see an outfit, accessory or doll you absolutely love and want to have? In your opinon, what are the rights and wrongs when reacting to someone else's BJD-related possessions?

      When I see something amazing, a must have, first I appreciate it and then I wonder what I might do to find it, or make something inspired by it for my own. As for rights and wrongs, one can never go wrong by being polite.

      2) Have you ever resented someone personally for their BJD-related possessions? In your opinion, is it possible for people to resent someone personally for the items they have?

      No. I have wished on many occasions that I was a gazillionnaire, however! But then I realize that even if I had the money to buy every single doll, outfit or prop I want that I'd probably appreciate each of them less. And I find that I can get a great deal of enjoyment out of looking at others' photoshoots and appreciating the amazing amount of creativity that went into each.

      Is it possible for people to resent someone personally for the items they have? IMO, certainly. But it would be a function of a person's individual personality, I think. That type of person is going to resent their siblings, their neighbors, the guy driving past them with a nicer car, etc. I don't think harboring those types of feelings is particularly healthy, and they are not going to lead to a positive outcome for that person. So why bother being jealous? As for worrying about whether people resent you, well, I also think it's a waste of time. You can't control other people's feelings. And the reality of life is that there are differences in income, differences in what each of us see as important expenditures, etc. The person who has a 50,000 dollar doll collection may be sitting on goldmine. On the other hand she might deciding against investing in what others might see as necessities, like a house or car of a certain type, kids, etc. I get the distinct impression that most BJD owners fall into this second category.


      3) Is elitism a myth or a reality of the hobby? Is the concept of "elitism" created by the "Have's" or the "Have-Not's" or a combination of both and does it extend to everyone or a few people in the hobby?

      Elitism is a fact of life, in real life and within just about every hobby or pastime. But I've only seen a very few threads where people were coming off as elitist, and in each case the person's opinions were so extreme that I almost wondered if he or she was joking or trolling (a certain hybrid opponent comes to mind). As others have said, some people are attracted to a particular type of doll or have had a lot of success with a particular brand, and therefore limit their collection to that brand. And a person may find the overall style of a particular brand to be unattractive. Neither of those are elitist. In the end it's not worth worrying about. If I were to encounter the elusive BJD elitist in real life I wouldn't associate with him or her, because I'm sure that person would be a bore. And if it were within a forum, well, that's what the ignore function is for.


      4) Does the hobby itself even have "Have's" and "Have-Nots"? Or is it a matter of being happy with what one has versus what one wishes he/she had?

      We are all "haves" here. A BJD is not a necessity. I think being happy in life is a matter of being happy with what one has, and if that's not possible, taking steps to get to a place where you will be (career change, becoming a saver, whatever). I do think there are some people who enjoy being unhappy. Maybe they get something out of feeling like a have-not. But feeling that way is a personal decision. There is little, if anything, someone else can do to change it.
       
    9. 1) How do you react when you see an outfit, accessory or doll you absolutely love and want to have? In your opinon, what are the rights and wrongs when reacting to someone else's BJD-related possessions?
      I'm one of the shy people, so I first have a look around, trying to see if the owner has already written about it somewhere. Then, I will definitely ask where the item comes from. I don't think this would offend the owner (unless they are actually feeling supreme due to having this item 0__o"), and besides, it doesn't mean that I want the exact same - I might be looking for a similar one, or just searching for new shops / seamstresses / etc.
      This is also the reason why I write as many credits as needed when uploading photos to the gallery. I can relate to your feelings of guilt in a way - I sometimes feel uneasy when I have to explain that certain items are not available anymore ^_^;;

      What I would never ask from a person is "would you sell it to me?" when there is no sales thread in sight. It's plain rude and might offend the person or at least make them feel very uneasy.

      2) Have you ever resented someone personally for their BJD-related possessions? In your opinion, is it possible for people to resent someone personally for the items they have?

      Personally, no. But I think this is more than possible - jealousy is not a good thing, but extremely common.

      3) Is elitism a myth or a reality of the hobby? Is the concept of "elitism" created by the "Have's" or the "Have-Not's" or a combination of both and does it extend to everyone or a few people in the hobby?
      Elitism does exist, unfortunately. It's rather dispersed in the sense that there is no specific group saying that "we don't like dolls of company A because they're junk, but company B is the top", there are just specific people saying that, and often not just about company A, but about companies C, D, E, F AND several dolls from company B, which makes it hard to determine what elitism is all about :)
      I prefer not to speak to people who believe that one company is inferior compared to the other (unless it is really resin / construction issues or bootlegs - but that's a different story and this is not about elitism at all), but I have nothing against people who just happen not to like products of company A, B, C, etc. and prefer company Z instead.
      I'm not an elitist - at least you would never say such a thing looking at my shelf, where a supia sits next to a luts and AoD doll and two more dolls (Soom and FL) are to arrive shortly. I'm about the molds and characters. I only get picky when it comes to interactions in photos - it is really hard for me to shoot a very realistically sculpted doll with more stylized ones, so I prefer to keep them separate (and this is why I am looking for one more doll to buy to match the supia).

      4) Does the hobby itself even have "Have's" and "Have-Nots"? Or is it a matter of being happy with what one has versus what one wishes he/she had?
      I think it's more about having than not having - but then again, if you're not happy with the "have", why not look for something to add to it?
       
    10. I agree with the others there are many deputy services and YJ auctions which may help them track down the item.

      The only thing which saddens me is when I see an incredible outfit thats still for sale..... but in the wrong size......
       
    11. You don't need to feel any guilt, you bought something you loved and now you are sharing it via Flickr, giving others the chance to see it and ask you about it... the way this hobby seems to work out, that person can then haunt Ebay and market places on forums until that outfit becomes available for her to buy :o)

      Elitism: that phrase is so overused on the threads, maybe I am wrong but my understanding of the word "elite" is a group of people who are considered by a society, and consider themselves, to be select, worthy, experienced - and their opinions carry more weight because of it? The rest of DOA, or at least a large number of us, would also have to consider certain members to have formed that elite, and in a way be bowing to their opinions. A person can consider themselves a member of that elite, but without a large group of us agreeing with them, they are just self-opininated.

      That was my self-opinionated attempt to explain elitism!
       
    12. I can understand why you'd feel guilty. It comes of wanting others to be as happy as you are! But seriously, don't fret about it. Like others have said, telling a person about a limited ed item means that they can figure out if they want to hunt it down! It's like any other item, except there's going to be a scarcity of it.

      I know that there are preferences and elitism within the hobby, but in person? I have never experienced negative attitudes towards my doll. It's natural to have preferences, likes and dislikes. And if you want to talk about them, it's fine too! I think people need to be a little less personal with their expressions, ie instead of 'i hate example company dolls' you could say 'this company's dolls aren't to my tastes!

      And in turn owners need to grow thicker skins. People rarely mean to insult you!. It's generally misunderstanding. i think anyone looking down on anyone for owning/preferring one type of doll over another is ridiculous, and I also think being endlessly jealous of others is stupid too. Group A need to open their minds, and Group B need to man up and save, if they want things!

      I am quite poor, no doubt about it. And as such I use layaways and yes, I have hella long wait times. But I get what I want. And I think that's the trick to beating elitism. Everyone is in different financial circumstances, but layaway and saving, and old fashioned bargain hunting can cut away the feeling of being a 'have-not'.
       
    13. I'll usually ask where it came from. It may or may not be available -- if I don't even know what it is, I'm likely not going to know if it is a OOAK masterpiece cooked up in a lair of pixie sparkles and industrious elves, or if it was a lucky find at Toys-R-Us from a mainstream line of other toys that just happens to be a good fit. Yeah, with my tastes, it's usually a long-sold-out mystery item or something from a site that would require extensive hoop-jumping to attain -- my taste, or maybe I just have really bad luck! :lol: -- but that isn't always the case, and I'm never going to know until I ask.

      No. I want to get the things I like without being fussed at with envy or snark or resentment by others; why shouldn't they be permitted to do the same without a death glare from me about it?

      Elitism... is a dead horse. It's real, but I suspect far less prevalent than a lot of people think. Preferences aren't elitism. Or if having a preference is elitism, elitism certainly isn't a flaw. Rude behavior is a problem -- but that can come from someone with a preference, with a ton of the most expensive dolls, or with no dolls of any kind at all. Rude behavior can be directed at the person with very little, or the person with a lot.

      I have a long list of dolls. There is a list just as long if not longer of dolls I'd like to have. I enjoy the former, work toward acquiring the latter when I am able, and don't really think about it much beyond that. I'm just... where I am, in terms of my collection. I have a habit of over-examining aspects of my life until it becomes ridiculous -- the dolls, and things associated with them -- are strangely and blissfully free from this, beyond the 'are finances/my life/my house and storage space in order' issues that are peripheral to the herd itself.

      There are some dolls for which I pine and sigh -- or kick myself for not buying when they were more readily available and I could have bought them -- but the only irritation present is with myself for passing by the opportunity, or not having the cash in hand to jump on a good sale. Those things are all on me -- not on the person who did acquire the doll/outfit/wig. (After all... why build up ill will toward someone who may eventually be the person who decides they don't want it any more and makes it available to me?)
       
    14. Really interesting debate topic! I mostly agree with what has been said so far, and you certainly don't need to feel guilty, Elephsnt - I hope it doesn't detract from your enjoyment of your dolls.

      1) How do you react when you see an outfit, accessory or doll you absolutely love and want to have? In your opinon, what are the rights and wrongs when reacting to someone else's BJD-related possessions?

      I have no problem with people asking if I'll sell them my stuff - I can just say no and it doesnt offend me in the least but it's not something I'd ask others for fear of causing offence. I have asked where a nice pair of eyes came from before, and I can see that some people might be worried about people infringing on their doll's originality by copying them exactly but I think it's always ok to ask. Just don't whine to the owner if they have an item you want and can't get - it's not their problem!

      2) Have you ever resented someone personally for their BJD-related possessions? In your opinion, is it possible for people to resent someone personally for the items they have? I agree with Tez, some crazies will always take up personal grudges against people who have items they want but personally I've never resented anyone or been jealous of things they have. Mostly, i'm happy for them, if people are lucky enought to have the moolah and the opportunities to aquire nice stuff more power to them.

      3) Is elitism a myth or a reality of the hobby? Is the concept of "elitism" created by the "Have's" or the "Have-Not's" or a combination of both and does it extend to everyone or a few people in the hobby? I think the amount of elitism is a myth - I see this word misused and thrown around quite often (it's like the Godwin's law of the doll hobby - the longer a thread the more likely someone is to cry "elitism!!"). I think it mostly manifests in bandwagon jumping - like the Fer outfits being expensive but popular, I'm sure some of their popularity was down to them being seen as 'the thing to buy'. Likewise I think rarity value eclipses the actual merits of certain sculpts making them much more desirable than they would be if they were more easilly available. I have no idea if it comes more from the haves or the have nots, but I don't consider anyone an 'elite' if they're just throwing a lot of money at the hobby. If there is a group of elite people in the hobby it would have to be the skilled customisers, photographers, seamstresses etc and in that sense elite is not a perjorative word. And yes, not everyone's doll is a beautiful and unique snowflake that will get equal treatment. If it's grubby, wearing a sock and blurrily photographed then people aren't going to be as forthcoming with gushing praise for it as they will for the dolls in the gallery+ section, perhaps the division between the beatiful/skillfully presented dolls and those that are less so is seen as elitism by some.

      4) Does the hobby itself even have "Have's" and "Have-Nots"? Or is it a matter of being happy with what one has versus what one wishes he/she had? Well, there's no need to settle for less if your collection doesnt feel complete to you and I doubt anyone can force themselves to stop feeling wistful for the dolls on their wishlist but at the same time, yes, you've got to be happy with what you've got and not let what you havent (yet) got eclipse the enjoyment you could already have.
      Yes, there are haves and have nots - I'm a student with no income at the moment so my future doll plans are on hold so I guess at the moment I'm more of a 'have-not'. If I had more disposable income I'd consider myself a 'have' I don't think it's dependant on the size of your collection or the amount you've spent on items I think being a 'have' entails havignt he ability to spend more freely and impulsively on dolls. Well, that's my take on it.
       
    15. Thank you everyone for your responses. And ix_tab, you are partially correct. People are much more important to me than material objects. But now I should answer my own questions...

      1) How do you react when you see an outfit, accessory or doll you absolutely love and want to have? In your opinon, what are the rights and wrongs when reacting to someone else's BJD-related possessions?

      I say "Wow!", perhaps comment and move on. While I don't mind people wanting items like I have I don't particularly want to copy someone else's style. I want to look at a bunch of "Wow!" things and cultivate my own definition of what I want in my collection whether it be dolls, clothes or shoes. The truth is, no matter what it is I think it will eventually come along when it's meant to be and if it doesn't then something else will make me just as happy.

      As for the rights and wrongs, I think that compliments are one thing and even inquiries about where the items come from are great. But, phrasing is important. For instance, "I want shoes like that. Where did you get them?" could be a bit too direct if spoken by a native speaker. But, if someone says, "Love those shoes!" I think it's nice for the doll owner to provide information as to where the shoes can be found. I really think, as a hobby, it's about give and take. Not only should be expect to take ideas they should expect to contribute ideas as well even when not explicitly asked.

      2) Have you ever resented someone personally for their BJD-related possessions? In your opinion, is it possible for people to resent someone personally for the items they have?

      No, I have never felt this way because of what someone had. Possessions do not define the goodness in someone's heart. I also feel that although some people will admire and perhaps be quite jealous of others that it rarely leads to complete resentment unless some kind of behavior supports that perspective.

      Many years ago I recall collecting an antique style doll. A highly respected individual within the community would buy, buy, buy and then "hide" it and never share it. Although I didn't resent the person for having the dolls or even keeping them for herself - she paid for them and they were hers to do with as she pleased - it really poisoned the hobby for me since she prided herself as an expert within the community yet used information and her extensive collection (with dolls that were rarely or never photographed) as power. There were other issues which don't have a place here, but the end result was I left that particular hobby because I didn't want to end up like that person.

      And it's because of experiences like the above and others that I feel bad for those who want items they can't have. I've been there. I've watched and participated and have been left as an outsider looking in a window with my fingerprints on the glass at things that are simply out of reach because I didn't have the right dolls or I didn't have enough money or I didn't have the right timing or I simply wasn't nice enough to the right people. Now, if anyone asks me where something is from or even has the slightest interest I'm happy to share it. It's when they inquire repeatedly that it makes me feel a bit weird and a little guilty. I don't want to be the expert. I'm only another collector enjoying her dolls who is lucky enough to live in Japan.

      3) Is elitism a myth or a reality of the hobby? Is the concept of "elitism" created by the "Have's" or the "Have-Not's" or a combination of both and does it extend to everyone or a few people in the hobby?

      As others have mentioned I think it is a reality, but not as widespread as some people think it is. People have preferences and that is how one can build a collection one can be content with. Frankly, elitism within the BJD community is nothing compared to real life or even other forms of doll-collecting.

      4) Does the hobby itself even have "Have's" and "Have-Nots"? Or is it a matter of being happy with what one has versus what one wishes he/she had?

      I think that anyone in the hobby is a "Have" in society, however, within the hobby itself there are people who are never happy. As a result, there are have's and have-not's, but only because one perceives him/herself in relation to others rather than in relation to his/her collection itself. The truth is that with BJDs anyone can get almost any doll or a similar doll with enough research and patience. BJDs are made everyday and the clothing selection is phenomenal even if one only looks online.

      When I see threads about "cheap dolls" or even "expensive dolls" or anything along those lines I wonder if people realize that no matter how many cheap or expensive dolls they have they will never be content until they purchase the doll that speaks to their heart. It sound so dorky, but one "forever" doll, in any condition, is priceless. A dozen "ho-hum" dolls will be meaningless no matter what the price.
       
    16. 1) How do you react when you see an outfit, accessory or doll you absolutely love and want to have? In your opinon, what are the rights and wrongs when reacting to someone else's BJD-related possessions?

      I react with awe and admiration. Truthfully if I really wanted something I would try to find a way to have it or something similar.
      I know people can't help being jealous or in some cases even resentful - but acting upon that in a way that hurts someone else is definately wrong.

      2) Have you ever resented someone personally for their BJD-related possessions? In your opinion, is it possible for people to resent someone personally for the items they have?

      No I have never resented someone for owning something I admire. I can't even fathom taking it to that level. If they're sharing pictures I feel like they are sharing their dolls and stuff with me. I like this hobby for the beauty of it and often feel it is way better that people with better resources and photography skills have a doll I like to look at.

      It is definately possible for someone to take their jealousy to a personal level. I just don't understand why they would take it to that level though. The person who owns something you like isn't doing it to spite you.

      3) Is elitism a myth or a reality of the hobby? Is the concept of "elitism" created by the "Have's" or the "Have-Not's" or a combination of both and does it extend to everyone or a few people in the hobby?

      Elitism is definately still alive in this hobby but it is not allowed to be vented in DOA which is why there appears to be a dramatic decline of it. It is not about have and have nots. It is about those who feel that their favorite brand name is better than a different company in every way and that people who do not buy their favorite name brand are unworthy of any attention.

      Although I suppose there are those who cannot afford their favorite brand but still insist it is the best brand out of all the others out there. I don't think that is spawned out of jealousy or resent though.

      4) Does the hobby itself even have "Have's" and "Have-Nots"? Or is it a matter of being happy with what one has versus what one wishes he/she had?

      I don't think the have and have-nots are a part of the hobby so much as it is related to individual psychology.
      This hobby is about exploring your creativity with a new medium. If someone is feeling personally put out because they can not afford what they want and personally resent those who do - they need to take a step back and re-evaluate why they want to be in this hobby.

      Some people may wrongly use this hobby to gain a sense of popularity that they couldn't achieve in real life. This hobby is definately not for that.
       
    17. 1) How do you react when you see an outfit, accessory or doll you absolutely love and want to have? In your opinon, what are the rights and wrongs when reacting to someone else's BJD-related possessions?

      I would compliment them on the item, and I might ask the person where they got it, but I would never ask to buy an item that wasn't listed for sale (I feel that it's rude to do so, but there's actually a whole nother debate thread out there for that topic). I would say that as long as people are being polite to each other everything's fine.

      2) Have you ever resented someone personally for their BJD-related possessions? In your opinion, is it possible for people to resent someone personally for the items they have?

      I've never felt resentment over doll stuff. There is no way that we can all have everything we want -- that's just part of life. To feel resentment is just silly. That said, it's possible for people to feel resentful, however, that's their issue.

      3) Is elitism a myth or a reality of the hobby? Is the concept of "elitism" created by the "Have's" or the "Have-Not's" or a combination of both and does it extend to everyone or a few people in the hobby?

      Some elitism exists as it exists everywhere, but the word gets flung around here and often used incorrectly. There are far fewer actual elitists than people sometimes think there are. When it does happen it can come from either side I suppose, but I'm not sure how you're defining haves and have not's in the instance of dolls. Not everyone wants more of something or to spend more etc, so it's hard to classify people as have not's. Plus I'm sure that lots and lots of people have missed out on something they wanted somewhere along the line which puts a lot of us in the same boat, really.

      [b4) Does the hobby itself even have "Have's" and "Have-Nots"? Or is it a matter of being happy with what one has versus what one wishes he/she had?

      See above :) I'll also add that yes it's a matter of being happy with what you have. People are happy with different things, and because these are luxury items it's hard to put them in a have or have not scenario.

      I will also say that you shouldn't feel guilty. LE items are common in this hobby, and people understand that (or should) -- plus it's always possible to hunt stuff down on the secondary market.
       
    18. 1) How do you react when you see an outfit, accessory or doll you absolutely love and want to have? In your opinon, what are the rights and wrongs when reacting to someone else's BJD-related possessions?
      If I want to have it I see if I can afford it and if I can't I pine for it and hope it may pop up on the MP or be re-issued and I buy it then (like Kamau for lovely, beautiful example!). As for reacting to people's personal possessions; there are no rights and wrongs as such, more good and bad manners, but I hate that politically correct/thought police way of censoring people "oh you can't do/say/think that, it's offensive!" so people can react how they damn well like in my opinion.
      2) Have you ever resented someone personally for their BJD-related possessions? In your opinion, is it possible for people to resent someone personally for the items they have?
      I don't resent people from jealousy or anything like that, if I do resent them it's because I don't like them to begin with and they always make their dolls look like extensions/personifications of the very things I hate about them. Regarding elitism, jealousy, negativity etc If I wanted something I'd just go get it, not have a hissy fit because somebody else had it! I think someone must have some deeper issues to get seriously jealous and spiteful over somebody else's material things. It most definitely is possible though



      3) Is elitism a myth or a reality of the hobby? Is the concept of "elitism" created by the "Have's" or the "Have-Not's" or a combination of both and does it extend to everyone or a few people in the hobby?
      It's a reality but it exists everywhere not just in this hobby. It's hard to define exactly and opinion seems split over what it actually is; I don't think it's about simply preferring one company over another, it's more about attitude and also judging other people because of their dolls and what they do with them. I've seen some people (not on DOA can I just add!) with a certain type of doll/customisation preference dismissing lots of other types as being weird, flaky, perverted, unskilled etc when they really weren't, they were just different from the Holy One passing judgement on them. I in turn hated the Holy Ones' choice of customisation (I won't say what they did or which dolls they had but weirdly they always seemed to have dolls from the same 2 companies, 1 of which I think has awfully slappable *serene/ecstasy from releasing a big f#rt* faces) and so I dismissed them as being pretentious w*nkers ~ that makes me an elitist too! :lol:
      Having said that, I don't think all elitism is a bad thing, in some ways it encourages healthy competition and self improvement.
      4) Does the hobby itself even have "Have's" and "Have-Nots"? Or is it a matter of being happy with what one has versus what one wishes he/she had? The latter, defnitely. How can a hobby like this be considered to consist of "Have" and "Have nots"? To buy one doll and all the accessories takes more money than some people earn in a month, or even a year in some countries.
       
    19. 1) How do you react when you see an outfit, accessory or doll you absolutely love and want to have? In your opinon, what are the rights and wrongs when reacting to someone else's BJD-related possessions?

      First of all, I gush about it in a very heartfelt and appreciative post, letting the owner know I think it's fabulous! Beyond that, I might (in the case of special eyes or a wig for example) politely inquire where it's from. This is simply a good way to learn about item availability here on DoA.

      2) Have you ever resented someone personally for their BJD-related possessions? In your opinion, is it possible for people to resent someone personally for the items they have?

      I would never resent anyone for something they had...heavens no, life is much too short for that! But I know that, sadly, there are people out there who do. I mean, you can look at a doll and long for it in your heart...that's only human. But why on earth would you resent someone else just for owning one unless you have serious jealousy and entitlement issues? I'm just happy they're willing to share their photos!:D

      3) Is elitism a myth or a reality of the hobby? Is the concept of "elitism" created by the "Have's" or the "Have-Not's" or a combination of both and does it extend to everyone or a few people in the hobby?

      I believe the notion of elitism does exist, but not nearly to the extent some claim it does here on DoA. I think most of what is termed elitism is nothing more serious than "company favortism" in posts where people don't quite word their responses clearly enough.:sweat

      4) Does the hobby itself even have "Have's" and "Have-Nots"? Or is it a matter of being happy with what one has versus what one wishes he/she had?

      Truth of the matter is that in a way, anyone here on DoA who is saving for a doll, or has purchased a wig or a pair of eyes or article of clothing for a hoped for doll is a "have". Some here can just "have" it a little quicker than others.:)

      A special example pertaining to this:

      To illustrate the point of how inappropriate resentment of other collectors is, I offer this example: there is a woman who has run a website for years and years for an OT doll. She is an expert in the field (and yes, she literally wrote the book on said doll.) She offers everything on her website for free...including downloadable patterns, in-depth research, and personal advise if needed. It is wonderful, of course, to have all this information and examples from her own collection so available to the public, (and at her own expense, I might add.) But believe it or not, she is constantly bombarded with emails from people who accuse her of "hoarding" said dolls so that others can't get them (when the dolls are readily and cheaply available...at least 500 every day...on eBay.) She's also had people tell her she's going to Hell for not selling her collection (to them, obviously.) And she is always receiving emails from people who tell her long, sad stories of everything that ever went wrong in their lives...which could all be instantly and miraculously resolved if she would just give/sell/sacrifice to them the specific doll they want from her collection!
       
    20. 1) How do you react when you see an outfit, accessory or doll you absolutely love and want to have? In your opinon, what are the rights and wrongs when reacting to someone else's BJD-related possessions?

      Actually... I find that the few times I've purchased things based on someone else's doll, what I was really reacting to was their iteration of that doll. As a case in point, I absolutely pounced on a limited tan Soo-Ri. Loved him, but just couldn't make him work for ME, and he eventually ended up with Aernath, whose affinity to Soo-Ris and ability to make them shine is practically the stuff of legend. I realized that I was reacting not only to the nice doll, but to the fact that I love what SHE does with them, rather than knowing in my gut that he was the guy for me.

      So I don't do that much any more. Occasionally I'll see a piece of clothing or an accessory that's just perfect for something I had in mind already, and I'll track it down if possible. But it's been a long slow slog for me to develop my own "style" of enjoying the dolls, so I try to avoid the "me too!" syndrome.

      2) Have you ever resented someone personally for their BJD-related possessions? In your opinion, is it possible for people to resent someone personally for the items they have?

      I haven't *resented* anyone, but I have drooled and ogled and wished I'd have been around for x, y or z's limited sale. And I've been in awe of a few particularly spectacular collections.

      Is it possible? Yes. I have one experience of someone admitting to me that she felt she had to buy dolls to "keep up with" me and some of my closest doll buddies. I didn't understand it then, and I sure don't now. I mean my gosh, we are all of different means and circumstances, and buying stuff to "keep up with the Joneses" is kind of passe, in my book.

      3) Is elitism a myth or a reality of the hobby? Is the concept of "elitism" created by the "Have's" or the "Have-Not's" or a combination of both and does it extend to everyone or a few people in the hobby?

      Yes, it's a reality. As others have said, though, it's pretty much limited to a few truly obnoxious people. One has to wonder about folks like that, who feel that they have to put down other people in order to feel complete.

      -- I happen to like DZs, even the big chunky odd-looking guys of years back. I just... do. Dunno why. Early in my experience of the hobby I encountered the very strong dislike of them in some parts, and mistook that for elitism. What I've learned over time is what others have said; it's more a passionate like or dislike of a particular style of doll that we're seeing. Meet these people in the real world, with their real dolls and yours, and more often than not they're really nice and you can share likes and dislikes about the various sculpts -- because there's basically always something to admire!

      The few who will turn up their noses at this or that sculpt and TELL you about it in public? are not worth your time or attention, because they basically have not learned common courtesy. It's a demonstration of their ignorance, not yours.

      4) Does the hobby itself even have "Have's" and "Have-Nots"? Or is it a matter of being happy with what one has versus what one wishes he/she had?

      It depends on your definition of have and have not. I have, for example, a huge collection of dolls. Others have not got 50+ dolls and feel fortunate to have one. In that sense, I have what they do not have. (And do I feel guilty about having this many? Oh boy you betcha). But if what they do have is one absolutely beloved doll and they are happy with it? That's what counts. Other people dress their dolls in designer fashions and have the desire and ability to turn over their wardrobe with the seasons. Others of us don't or can't.

      If what's happening is that the person with a big collection or a very small but very expensive collection is rubbing that fact in someone else's face? That's bad times. Avoid, avoid, avoid.