1. It has come to the attention of forum staff that Dollshe Craft has ceased communications with dealers and customers, has failed to provide promised refunds for the excessive waits, and now has wait times surpassing 5 years in some cases. Forum staff are also concerned as there are claims being put forth that Dollshe plans to close down their doll making company. Due to the instability of the company, the lack of communication, the lack of promised refunds, and the wait times now surpassing 5 years, we strongly urge members to research the current state of this company very carefully and thoroughly before deciding to place an order. For more information please see the Dollshe waiting room. Do not assume this cannot happen to you or that your order will be different.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Dollshe Craft and all dolls created by Dollshe, including any dolls created under his new or future companies, including Club Coco BJD are now banned from Den of Angels. Dollshe and the sculptor may not advertise his products on this forum. Sales may not be discussed, no news threads may be posted regarding new releases. This ban does not impact any dolls by Dollshe ordered by November 8, 2023. Any dolls ordered after November 8, 2023, regardless of the date the sculpt was released, are banned from this forum as are any dolls released under his new or future companies including but not limited to Club Coco BJD. This ban does not apply to other company dolls cast by Dollshe as part of a casting agreement between him and the actual sculpt or company and those dolls may still be discussed on the forum. Please come to Ask the Moderators if you have any questions.
    Dismiss Notice

Help understanding mediums used in faceups

Mar 20, 2023

    1. I am a watercolorist and sometimes woodworker who wants to start trying doll faceups. I am confused why only watercolor pencils are used or recommended in faceups - if the fixatives/sprays used to prepare and protect the resin are acylic-based, doesn't that mean they are water-soluble until dry? Why would a regular colored pencil - which is oil-based - be a bad idea. I find that the high quality colored pencils - or even Verithins by prismacolor - give even finer lines than do watercolor pencils. Perhaps not as fine as liquid watercolor with a 000 brush - but still maintain their points better than WC pencils. Could somebody explain what I am missing here? Thank you!
       
      • x 1
    2. If I recall correctly, its a bad idea to use oil-based materials because they will stain the doll. Water based materials are less likely to stain so they are considered safe.
       
      • x 4
    3. Hi! So using watercolors is generally considered safe as they aren't oil based, and also, non oil pastels are also great, as are acrylic paints. Each medium has its pros and cons and it's really about what works best for you, just remember to use MSc between layers and on the base so you don't stain the doll!

      Oh sorry I misread, the reason oil based products are bad for the doll is because it can stain the resin, which can be a problem if/when the faceup needs changing, also MSc needs time to dry, you don't want to do a faceup while the MSC or whatever base your using is drying down
       
      • x 5
    4. Basically, oils and solvents are materials which have the potential to have a negative chemical reaction on the plastic surface of your doll. Negative chemical reactions are something you definitely want to avoid.
      Now it can get confusing unless if maybe you were a chemist, who knows in depth exactly how every material in question has potential to react. Because most of us are not chemists you will find accounts on the forum of materials which are reasonably tested by the community over years to be safe and those which unfortunately were discovered first hand to be unsafe, and then many educated guesses about what poses higher and lower risks.
      Oil based paint, oil pastels, nail polish, enamel paint, and permanent markers are some of the materials to definitely avoid at all costs.
      Now, onto the whole colored pencils thing. Once apon a time I made my own educated guess and used a lot of regular prismacolor pencils and nothing bad ever happened because of it. So I have often come in and said that I personally think certain brands of colored pencils can be considered safe. I feel like nobody ever listens to me and don't really care to argue about it anymore but there is the perspective of one person, that I tested them a lot over a long time and they seem as safe as most other recommended materials.
      The reason hobbyists have enjoyed watercolor pencils is because you can use them in a different way than as a dry drawing medium. Using colored pencils as a dry medium you may notice some troubles such as grainy lines and even accidentally scraping off sealant while trying to work. People tend to use watercolor pencils in combination with the water. I never enjoyed that, so I just went towards painting fine lines with watercolor (another thing that people were widely telling me was impossible while I was explaining how to do it, but now it seems like it's accepted). Gouache and acrylic are popular choices for the line work on doll faces, and I think in minority, watercolor.
      If you are interested in learning faceups I think the best method for beginning is to read guides about recommend and unsafe materials, learn about the basic "why" of each side so you can make educated judgements when needed, and then experiment with different safe materials and techniques until you find what you personally enjoy.
      Ah and about the sealant: you won't be working with it while it's wet. It's something where you spray it and really need it cured before you continue, so it's pretty much a moot point. The aerosol sealants are actually a terrifying mixture of chemicals and solvents and resin which intellectually I would question how it's not ruining the dolls, but it's been working out for all of us so far! :XD:
      Additionally, the actual purpose of the sealant is not exactly to prevent staining from other materials, and it will often fail you in that respect if that's what you are relying on, however it can help a bit simply because it is a thin, clear barrier. The actual purpose of the sealant is to establish the ground upon which you can work as you cannot work properly on an unsealed resin doll. Think of it all like pastel painting if you are familiar with that, or as a watercolor painter, even the difference between using different types of paper such as cold press and hot press, or with dolls more like any watercolor paper vs. Yupo paper. Having a slightly toothy ground is what makes so much of the work on top possible. Then the sealant between and after layers simply acts as your fixatif like when pastel painting.
      Hope you have fun!
       
      #4 AlisonVonderland, Mar 20, 2023
      Last edited: Mar 20, 2023
      • x 11
    5. OK, the irony here is that Derwent watercolor pencils actually stain - they are considered dyes. You can decorate clothes with them, they are that permanent. And I hear faceup artists recommend Derwent (which I love by the way) :-) So I am thinking that might not be the reason. Also - the acrylic fixative below the first layer of paint should protect the resin itself as long as it is applied sufficiently.
       
    6. Not all regular colored pencils are a bad idea- just oil based ones (like Polychromos). Prismacolor Premier and Verithin pencils are wax-based, though the Premier ones would be terrible for faceups because they're too soft. I used Verithin pencils in my early faceups, and some of those faceups were on my dolls for many years and did not stain them. The sealants used for faceups do offer some protection, especially after you've applied many layers. But you still need to be careful about things that have high staining potential, like oil-based materials (so oil-based pencils, oil paints, oil pastels, and human makeup are out of the question). I couldn't say with confidence that wax-based materials are 100% safe, but for the most part waxy stuff just doesn't suit faceups anyway. But I think if you want to use Verithins, you can. They do stay nice and sharp, but I will say that they are difficult to remove if you make a mistake- which is one advantage of watercolor pencils, which you can usually remove with a damp q-tip.
       
      • x 5
    7. Great answers! Thank you! And I am listening (regarding possibly using regular prismacolor pencils). Also - when I referred to water-based acrylic spray sealants, I meant it seems like they could cause watercolor underlayers that were water-soluble to run. So it seems to me that regular colored pencils would be safer. (I made the mistake some years ago of doing some very detailed and arduous faux finish wood repair with markers - and sprayed it with shellac to seal the work. Needless to say, the alcohol in the shellac spray made all my meticulous work run. I ended up having to use acrylic, THEN shellac. ) Anyways, adding water to already drawn watercolor pencil lines is very iffy - as it often ends up much brighter and stronger and thicker than one expects. So painting with a brush off the WC pencil tip? My least favorite thing to do. I agree, brush in liquid WC is friendliest for smooth graceful lines. But scary on a doll face - so far. hahaha. I can see this will be a process.

      Great response. Sounds 100% logical. Thank you!!!
       
      • x 2
    8. Just to add: it's not only out of safety, some things are just really not great when you try to paint tiny details on a rough surface with them :lol:
      Waxy or oily pencils for example are a pest to handle, oil pastels would not allow for smooth blushing and so on. There is a reason why certain materials just have turned out to be THE best choice throughout the years, and it's a mixture of us learning what is safe AND yielding the best results.
      Also in case you haven't seen it yet, check out the BJD FAQ for general BJD related information including customization tips:
      THE BIG BJD FAQ
      You should also look at a looot of faceups to see how certain effects are being achieved. I think that helps to understand best why certain tools are used the way they are.

      Also the most commonly used sealants are not water based, they are solvent based (Mr. Super Clear or MSC has been the standard for years, same for similar sealants like Zoukeimura's spray, Topcoat or the varnish from Games Workshop). The airbrush ones tend to be water based, but even those don't activate watercolor pencils while sealing.

      I'd argue that if you're good at painting small details, skip the pencils. Diluted paint will always yield a smoother, nicer looking result than a pencil simply because of how it interacts with the textured resin surface. Pencils always look a little grainy. They are mostly the tool of choice of beginners because they are easier to handle than brushes, but if you are used to brushes you should be fine.
       
      • x 7
    9. THANK YOU! What you say is appreciated and sounds like the voice of wisdom. I have started with body blushing - which is fairly unthreatening. Spraying with MSC outside.
       
      • x 1