High Prices?

My MNF has seams, and the sleeping head I got in fact has seams along the side of his head that I've been attempting to remove. Seams don't bother me, except those ones, because they're bound to pick up pastels in a funny way when I do the faceup.

Resin quality, sculpt, engineering, innovation such as quick release hands and feet, ease of handling the doll, customer service, events, clothing choices, speed of production, these are all things I value over free seam removal. None of the companies I have ordered from offered free seam removal, and I've never bothered to order it. What services or features people want included is going to vary. I prefer stability and aesthetically pleasing form to great poseability, for example. Many people would put poseability much higher and resin quality lower than I would.

 

Totally agree. When I was looking for a nice doll to make a customized Sephiroth for my mum, she fell in love with BBB Long. Even despairingly loose, he posed steady as a rock, way better than more expensive dolls (although my DZ Ivan poses like an angel too). He had a bit of a seam left in his chest, but since it's going to be customized, I didn't really care at the moment.

I chose "it depends", because I believe companies in the bjd world are just like every branch; if they have a recognizable name, they charge you more. Popular branches don't have to necessarily be better than less recognized ones. I've heard terrible stories about yellowing. Well, my Long is two years old and still paper white. I understand the fact that artist want to be recognized and justly compensated by their work (Iple's faceups may be expensive, but they are one of the best IMO, at least artistically speaking), but there's always a chance for equilibrium, in spite of where are the dolls actually made.

Despite this probably sounding quite strange, I also agree with fishcake about the prices. We, generally speaking, are sometimes quite willing to pay exhorbitant quantities for shoes, bags or dresses, higher than we would actually pay for a doll, which makes them quite underpriced if we take in account the real time it takes to make a single one. And I mean the whole process from putting it into paper until we receive the fully completed doll. Honestly speaking, how many of us would be willing to do all of that work for a lesser price than we believe we deserve?

Of course, I also believe that if we were all millionaires and had no trouble at all saving or paying for them, we would not be having this discussion... We would have never thought of it. That's something that should be taken in account too, and I'm including myself in that, because I admit as to being the first in complaining about prices being too high

 

Ah yes. Agreed! It's actually quite simple; if you do not want to pay the money, then don't pay up.

And as for the seems; I am one of those people who likes them, does not want companies to sand them off and if one does it for free and does not ask me if I want to or not, I'm going to buy my doll somewhere else.
The sanding service is an extra. It is not your right as a customer to have the seams of your doll sanded off for free. I know that if I had a doll company, I would not even offer the seam removal service. It takes a lot of time, breathing resin dust is unhealthy and there's so much moaning and complaining about it I'd rather save the head ache.

 

I do not think my dolls are overpriced. I take each of my BJD purchases into careful consideration before I make any final decisions. I love my dolls and enjoy them thoroughly, but I know that they are a luxury and a privilege. I consider the enjoyment that I take from them and the detail and artistry of my dolls to be worth the price that I pay...or I wouldn't buy them. It's as simple as that.

As for seam sanding (since that seems to be a burgeoning part of this discussion) I also prefer my dolls to not be seam sanded. I prefer the feel of the resin as it comes from the mold: that velvety textured feeling as opposed to the slick plastic feeling of sanded dolls. It is easier to blush unsanded dolls. Also, one of the aspects that I value so highly in BJDs is the amount of detail in their sculpting (think of the veins on the back of a hand). Sanding would contribute to a diminishment of this detail. I would be disappointed if I had no choice but to receive a sanded doll. It is personal preference, and that is mine. I understand that it is not everyone's.

 

In my opinion high prices depend on several things (Price versus quality, what you may afford versus real cost,...), all together or separately, and on every point of view. I am glad with what I got for what I paid, so let's tell kind of Just right in my case. Some few were higher, some other few lower and most of them on the range. I do not care saving step by step when it takes it always I do not think the price is insane. Fortunately, I never got to that point, but I noticed most of the sculpts I have are clearly more expensive nowadays than then for the same thing. That is how it works every year generally, but I am not pretty sure that is really the fair increase.

 

But the thing is the service probably really isn't for free and has just been added to the cost of the doll, where as other companies just have it as a separate cost you can either choose to get or not. I don't care either way. My first doll came sanded, and fortunately it was nicely done and I haven't noticed any sanding marks. But if he come unsanded I wouldn't have cared.

But as it's been pointed out what it really comes done to, if you like something a company does then get it, if you're willing to pay the price for something then do it, and if you don't like what a company does, then don't get it, and if you're not willing to pay their prices then don't buy from them.

As far as overpricing I say it depends, but again as it was mentioned I think that just has to do with what one is willing to pay for any given item. Not whether or not an item is overpriced. If an item is truely "overpriced" then no one would buy it and eventually the price would have to be lowered. Supply and demand and basic economics at work.

 

Totally agree with you. I don't consider seams to be flaws as such - I'm just one of those sticklers. My first 2 dolls were from Dream of Doll and they had horrible, obvious seams. I wouldn't have been happy just leaving them unsanded.

Even if labor costs are lower in China, compared to Korea and Japan, I would hope that the doll makers are paid for the extra work they put in. Chinese companies could still do as their competition does and charge extra for the seam removal - and doll collectors would be none the wiser because they don't exactly tell us how the final cost of the doll is divided between profit, materials, and employee's salaries.

I also believe that making such a service standard throughout the hobby would probably cause the cost of the dolls to jump - especially for companies in countries with higher labor costs.

So I don't consider it to be a bad thing that some companies don't offer seam removal, but it is a perk from the companies who do so. (Provided they perform the service well. As Muisje pointed out, that isn't always the case.)

 

I love elfdoll because they ALWASE sand the seams on every doll they send out. Luts has some pretty wicked seams on the kid delfs I have and i wish they were sanded. Also, Elfdoll coats their entire doll in sealant which prevents so much staining! My red wore a pair of black boxers for 2 yrs without staining, I put them on a Luts doll for 2 days and he was stained. I'm not saying that Luts is over priced or Elfdoll isn't, but i LOVE those little extra services that Elfdoll does for its customers. It totally depends ont he doll if it might be overpriced, it depends on what the person is looking for, expecting, and is willing to pay for what they want. I might be willing to pay more for a certain doll than someone else, they would think my doll was over priced, and vice versa.

 

For me its like more towards my liking, if i feel that the doll is worth the money, than it will be 100% worth it,
its more of a self pleasing thing for me, right now i want to get a Mecha angel sabik & a ringdoll sol, they are sure pricey but for me its worth it T.T

 

My most expensive doll was my Volks Lieselotte, and I personally feel that she was worth everybit of money spent on her. She was my holy grail doll anyways. ;3

 

I feel like I spoiled myself with a high quality doll too early (my first one) and the lower price point and quality doll I purchased after her I was unsatisfied with. She didn't pose nearly as well, I was not in love with her sculpt. I thought she was a good deal at the time, but then I realized that I was still paying quite a bit of money for a doll I didn't even connect with, I might as well save up a little more for the doll I really do want. So in my mind I would rather save up for the higher priced doll or find the high quality doll for adoption for the same price or a little more expensive than if I were to buy a low priced new doll just for the sake of it seeming like a bargain.

 

There are a lot of prices that are reasonable, but when you charge $600 for a doll head that is not the best quality and got pierced ears (that I personally don't want) just because it is limited, then you have gone a bit too far.

 

I think the price are just ok in general. Well I do want to cry when I see the price for some dolls but when you see how pretty the doll is... 8'D

 

What's your cutoff for the price of a doll?

Depends on the doll and how much I can afford at the time. Obviously, the immediate cut-off is how much money I have available. tcan be anything from $100 to several thousand, depending... So a lot of factors come into play. If I were a multi-millionaire with lots of cash assets, then I suppose the cut-off price would be a LOT higher... (sadly, this is only in my dreams).

Have you ever thought a product or company was overpriced? Ridiculously overpriced?

Sometimes I think t-shirts or some cookies are ridiculously overpriced. If something is too expensive, I won't buy it. Expense is relative. If I have NO money, then anything is too expensive. If I'm rolling in cash, then a lot of things might not be expensive, relatively!!!--but private islands and castles will still be out of my price range.

BJD-wise... personally, I think ALL bjds are expensive. I'm old-school, so a hundred dollars is a LOT of money. BUT... if I want something enough--any price could possibly be worth it. Like Mastercard ads... some things are Priceless.

What's a reasonable face-up price?

This will vary per person. The buyers will always want something for less. The faceup artist needs to make enough money for their time and expenses. AND then there is whatever the Market will bear. Buyers get to say whether they will buy or not. Sellers get to set whatever price that works for them. Buyers don't have to buy. Some artists have lots of commissions and little time, so they can charge more. That's just how it works in life. Price-setting is a terrible-terrible thing, anyway. It will almost always go AGAINST the buyer.

The OP says they are in art school. I think once they try and make a living through art they will learn a LOT of things!!!! Such as, people telling them their prices are not reasonable when they are barely making enough to live is NOT a good thing.

Have you ever done something yourself, i.e. sewn/knitted for a doll, or painted them, because you just couldn't afford company painting/clothes? A penny for your thoughts on the price issue?

Dolls and clothes are LUXURY ITEMS. They aren't necessary for survival, but they DO make life a lot nicer if you can afford them. If you can't, then you need to focus on trying to make a living and maybe putting a little into savings and see if you can eventually save up.

Making clothes is not necessarily less expensive. I've gone into JoAnn's and by the time I've bought everything needed, it's not cheap, and then I have to take time to actually sew, instead of spending time on other necessary things (like making a living). Faceups also take a lot of materials and time. It's actually MORE expensive if you don't do faceups or clothes for a money since you can't offset the expenses by income and by using the stuff you bought more economically (using those spools of thread, using that extra fabric and notions and patterns, saving time by making multiples, using the paints and pastels and brushes you buy for faceups and making money from it, getting practice in which shortens time, etc.)

I understand, especially as an artist, why the expense is there. I'm not saying these dolls should be cheap, I'm asking what is a reasonable price, in your opinion, for a doll (considering such things as resin quality, posability, paint quality, company, what's included with the basic doll, etc).

The prices of everything, no matter how high or low are always as reasonable as sellers can make them. Even Rolls Royce wants to actually sell some of their cars! If they were that overpriced for what they were, even people rolling in money will not think of buying them. They have to be worth it to the buyer.

Buyers never think about the expenses of doing business. People aren't making up these prices out of their heads! They have to look at the expenses (renting facilities, hiring people, insurance, buying materials, making a website with a web-designer, getting licenses, payrolls, etc., etc.). They will keep the prices as low as they possibly can because it is in their interest to sell dolls.

Even the big Design Houses that make haute couture for thousands of dolls per dress aren't making it all as profit! Those are hand-made one-of-a-kind items and take a lot of paying skilled people to design and make them and for the fabric, plus costs of space and advertising and travel (to bring your collection to shows). Rolls Royce puts in a lot of expensive work and materials, too. It's not as if they are exactly like a Toyota except for the name!!!

And BJD companies are small, small businesses, basically only a few designers and scuptors and people to do the moulding and casting and shipping and packing and website... They are NOT making a lot per doll!!! and they are not mass-producing, which ALWAYS makes the product more expensive to make (like the person doing only one or two faceups or one outfit at a time for their dolls).

ALSO--less expensive items are usually produced en masse in factories in countries where people make only a few dollars a day with usually sketchy working conditions. I don't think people understand that wanting inexpensive items often means a lot of exploited workers, even sweat-shops and perhaps child labor. Chinese doll companies are most likely NOT sweatshops because they are so SMALL, and the people need to be specialized in their skills. BUT the cost of living (wages) in China is lower, so they can produce at a lower cost (the people who think the dolls are lower in quality--that is UNRELATED... quality can be high or low whatever the cost is!--it's primarily the cost of wages/living/business that makes the prices a little lower).

I'm surprised no one has discussed this, or, if someone has, it isn't appearing in my searches. I think it is a reasonable issue to discuss, especially with the current state of the economy.

Depends what you are searching for. This topic comes up all the time in various ways...

 

It absolutely depends. In my opinion, the BJD hobby is one where you generally get what you pay for. More expensive companies offer better aesthetics, better quality and/or better customer service (with a few notable exceptions!). If you don't care as much about these various things, cheaper companies can be a great deal. But for people who are fussier, I don't think the more expensive BJDs are 'overpriced'.

My personal limits are generally defined entirely by how much I want the doll/face-up/blushing. I'm very happy with Soom's normal price of $50 per face-up, but when it came to getting my grail (Soom Amber) painted, I was thrilled to 'only' have to pay $100 ($50 of which was shipping, to be fair). And some of Soom's LEs I've been willing to pay a lot for (I think either GS Galena or Lilac Migma was my most expensive, both being somewhere around $850-$950), while others I wouldn't buy even if they were super discounted.

 

It depends on how much you love your doll, I guess. I mean, you could have gotten something from an event at a drastically reduced price and end up hating it. Another doll you could have gotten it at normal price but love it to death and think it was well worth it.

 

I'm surprised doll prices are as cheap as they are. They're all hand-made, and it takes skill to both mix up and pour resin so it doesn't bubble and sets properly. Not to mention the time it takes to sculpt all the parts of the doll. I know when I sell my art, I like to be paid more than minimum wage for my time, don't you guys?

It's also not cheaper to make clothes, just to kill that preconception. It takes time to learn the skills -- how to draft a pattern, how to sew so it looks nice, how to detail it (beading, trim, etc). Then there's the cost of materials. Do you want to know how much I spent getting the materials for one outfit for my Cass, even before we touch the 80+ hours I spent sewing and beading it? Fortunately she doesn't have human feet so she didn't need shoes too; shoes take a while and a reasonable amount of skill to make. Some collectors may be content to stuff their doll into a sock dress, but I am not.

I will never complain about pricing for a quality product.

 

Last weekend, frustrated by how yellow two of my dolls have become (two 8-years-old Delf Beauty Whites), I went and looked for porcelain BJDs. Wow, I had no idea porcelain ones were so expensive! I suddenly realized that resin BJDs are not expensive versions of play dolls; they're cheap version of porcelain BJDS. I had heard that before, but until I saw the prices myself, it hadn't really sunk in.

Between that and some info I've seen on the cost of resin casting, I'm coming to the conclusion that these dolls are no more expensive than they have to be for production and development costs. No one's getting rich making BJDs.

 

True. For example, one of the reason why French (European) artist dolls are more expensive than their Asian counterparts, is because taxes in many European countries are killing. I'm not sure what the situation is in France, but in the Netherlands, a shop-owner has to pay 21% of the total value of a product in tax. This is for everything they sell. So that $500 doll, is suddenly only worth $395, and then you still have to subtract all other expenses, like material cost, packaging, rent etc, etc.

@Jinnayah: I had to look them up, but.. wow! Compared to those prices, our BJD's are a cakewalk.