How known is TOO known?

This is the only concern I have, together with the fear that prices of elusive limiteds will rise even more.
When you compare this hobby with what it was few years ago you can already see it. In 2006 most of the volks limiteds were sold for +/- $1300 in the marketplace, only the truly popular were more expensive. Nowadays $1700 seems to be the standard price for the same doll (even $2000+ isn't a rarity anymore)! I fear that with the popularity of this hobby the prices in the secondhand marketplace will become more exobitant.

The recasts and increasing prices of limiteds are actually two sides of the same coin. The first is an invite for the other as the need for cheaper dolls opens up a market for bootleg-companies. The recasts on the other hand create a market for highly-priced limiteds, because there will aways be people who want to be seen as 'true collectors'.

Perhaps I'm being too negative, but I think that the economy will slowly take a hold of this hobby.

 

Being someone who has worked in the manufacturing industry and has walked through the labs of ground breaking polymers and such being developed I'm with LillyKitten in the fact that they very well could be mass produced in the future - and that the fact that beside being a 'unpopular' item...well look at the evolution of some other 'unpopular' things - fashion is a big indicator of how quickly something uncool can be propelled into 'cool'.

However I think you'd find people will still pay for the 'original' brands no matter the cheap copies...being someone who pays $6 for organic bread when you can get 'normal' bread for about $1 I know I pay for quality every bloody day and happily... because it tastes better.

A few things I love have become mainstream over the years and frankly I'm sorta glad - it filters money to companies/groups/people I find delight in. And if it inspires others along the way, What could be better? Soa few cheap immitations pop up...they won't last the distance...when the 'next big thing' comes along they'll be on it like ants on a picnic.

but then I know I'm an optimist....so this is only 2 cents worth.

 

Funny you mentioned bread as an example, thirteenthgrace. I was just thinking about corsets. A good corset is handmade and tailored to fit the buyer/person who is supposed to wear it. The materials are usually not cheap and a good corset may cost up to several hundreds of dollars, but it’s most of the time worth the money. The popularity of corsets has increased. Not so much that it’s a common sight when you walk the street, but when you go to fairs or clubs they are not that uncommon anymore. I wouldn’t be surprised if there are people on this forum who have or used to have at least one corset.

I know a few people who make corsets professionally and they are not amused by the flimsy, cheap "corset" things that resemble corsets, but do not come near the quality of a real one. Still people buy those, because of the look and they don’t want to spend too much money. Not everybody has the same love for this item with a very long and rich history.

A while ago I read on a seamstress group the scorn people had for a celebrity who was wearing a corset upside down, backwards or both (I don’t remember) and it was not meant as a fashion statement. It was probably the result of an ignorant stylist. The same could happen to BJDs. The "knowledgeable" people flock together and the masses will happily take what they see unaware of any "mistakes".

Should BJDs become popular I suppose a cheaper alternative will pop up on the market that is not like a "real" BJD. Something that looks like it, but doesn’t come near the quality of a BJD. That may annoy some people, but in the end people who are really interested in high quality items will continue to buy high quality items, because they think it’s worth the money.

It happened to me. Flimsy and cheap corset things made me interested in real corsets and I think several hundreds of dollars is a good price for a handmade corset, but a few dollars for a flimsy piece of fabric with plastic boning is not. BJDs are also handmade and in my opinion worth the money.

I agree that the mentioned boot-leg dolls and the increased prices of limiteds could be a problem. It wouldn’t be the first time someone buys an item and discovers it’s a boot-leg afterwards, because they just didn’t know any better.
I also wonder if Den of Angels will be able to handle the amount of new members should BJDs become mainstream.

In the end I think I’ll be one of those "I did it before it became popular" people, but I’ll remind myself people were already collecting BJDs before I discovered them.

 

Ooh! Short answer: I'd like it to be more well-known.

A: good/bad for collectors

I think it'd be great for collectors! More mainstreaming, easier to get supplies, more sewing tips, more people to gab to, and a better acceptance of the hobby from the general public.

B: make BJDs lose their uniqueness for being different

Well, every doll is going to be unique, no matter how many molds there are out there. I still want a Luts Yder and you could probably throw a dime and hit twenty of them at a big enough meet-up. But my doll-baby will be unique and special to me! ^-^

C: make you mutter "I was doing it before it was cool."

Oh, I've already said this when, 1.) anime became as mainstream as it is. I remember 'the days' back in the late 80s and very early 90s when I watched anime when most/all of the dubbing was done in Canada, or, more commonly, wasn't dubbed at all and my kidlet self learned how to read subtitles really fast. These were also on huge, heavy video tapes for the old VHS players.

2.) In 1999 when Harry Potter started becoming more popular, I read it before it had a fandom.

3.) Indie music!~ I used to go to a place where I live call "I-bar" where they'd play all indie music, and then it got so popular, it was too crowded to go to.

But when I say "I was into ____ before it was cool!", I usually laugh after saying it, because I honestly do mean it all in good fun.

If you think about it though, our parents said the same thing about us, with Star Trek and Star Wars; they were into it before the merchandising, the MGM ride; and our grandmothers likely would say the same thing about doll collecting as a whole: they were in it before it was the cool thing to do now-a-days.

As for the "mass-production failure", I agree, that COULD result in something very bad for the hobby. But, people are already trying to do this, what with the vinyl ball jointed dolls. There's not much we can do about it, other than educating those who really want to know about abjds.

 

I like to think and hope that if BJD do become more popular, more American companies will make them, and hopefully look to the Japanese standards as a guide for making them. I also hope that if collecting them becomes more popular, that more companies will begin to make them, this driving down prices overall and creating more variety.

I am not, however, going to sacrifice quality. Just because they can make a cheaper product does not mean they should cut corners.

 

I do tend to relate everything to food or folktales.... mostly the latter, but I was snacking at the time of the post. Corsets are a great example - it can get people interested in to the corset-world or just let them dabble their curiousity and decide it doesn't suit them so much without a huge outlay.

 

This is actually a really good point also and sparked a simmilar point in my brain - if they become popular perhaps they'll become a popular art form and galleries will open up showcasing them? Imagine the beautiful creations that could appear if artistans were encoraged to the very limit of their imaginations?

 

You have a point thirteenthgrace. I think it would be really nice if there were a way to open up some art galleries where for a day, people can display their BJD, and perhaps with some kind of a theme in mind...maid outfits one day, thrift store specials the next...that sort of thing. The possibilities are pretty endless.

 

Hahaha, I keep checking the news, wondering if our purchasing of BJDs is actually affecting the economy, in a good way, and I keep thinking the finance man will say "And Korea is in a boom time, their economy skyrocketing after Producer of Ball Joint Dolls Company Soom sold <insert large sum of money> worth of doll products".

I can dream. It's a funny image of him saying that.

But still, I don't think BJD will ever hit mainstream, since there's no way everyone's going to want to fork out all that money for something that's cool because someone else has it. I've found a lot of people are fascinated by them, but it's still an underground hobby.

It may not feel like it for collectors of other things, but, for me, it's more like it's a statement of my individuality to have something Unique.

A: good/bad for collectors
- Here I'd say we'd have less of a chance of being able to obtain special limited dolls.
- They'd find some way to make it seem tacky, like it's not an expensive hobby, and try to sell inferior products. (The mainstream makers will)
B: make BJDs lose their uniqueness for being different
- They always will be unique, and people will question their origin forever. They're not exactly small, and I've seen that they symbolize: The owner, Occult, Gothic, Lolita and other things. Mainly non mainstream things.
C: make you mutter "I was doing it before it was cool."
- Haha, I've always been doing it before it was cool. I just hope that the person who brings dolls out of the secret world actually knows what they're talking about.

(And if it was Stefani, I'd say she'd most likely get a Soom, I can see her with a Topaz)

But even then, if someone's seen with one, only a few people in the world would actually know what they are.

I'm sure they'll just label it a "wacky geek culture" and leave it as that. Even though there are many people who collect that aren't geeks at all.

--

Then again, I could be wrong. I have 3 friends I've introduced to the hobby, and all want them for different reasons. Customization, OCs and Sewing.

But that's veering a little off the course.

It's like a fashion, people will try to imitate it, and they will do it badly.

It'll be like an arm accessory, but the ones that can't afford Resin will be carrying customized Porcelain dolls on their arms in public in normal clothes because someone else did it.

 

A: good/bad for collectors
Overall, good. I mean, yeah, there are going to be plenty of people who just come and go, but there are going to also be some great BJD lovers who just wont see BJDs until they hit mainstream. We could potentially have a flourishing clothing/accessories market from the different talents and variety of people mainstreem knowlege would provide.
B: make BJDs lose their uniqueness for being different
As someone stated above, I think each doll is inheriently unique. Even just a little change in hair, eye color, or wardrobe can completely change the look of the doll and separate it from another of the same mold.
C: make you mutter "I was doing it before it was cool."
I do that about plenty of stuff as it is

I think, even if they do skyrocket into popularity, it wont be a permanent thing. The trend will eventually fade, and the people like us who have been here doing it just out of love will remain. Things like this always tend to cycle. Take a look at knitting, which has cycled from being the hip new thing to "Um, ok grandma." a ton of times in it's existence. And ponchos, which has had at least two cycles in and out of popularity (That I can think of) since the 60s.

 

I don't care if they become mainstream. I don't see how that should affect me or how I see the hobby. Mine will be no less special because of it. I laughed my head off when I saw several of them featured prominantly in Nell's music video "cat". I thought it was so cool.

 

I think everyone needs to be prepared for them to get more popular. It could easily happen. In the UK particularly, all you would need is a well known celebrity to carry one into a hot club and they'll be everywhere in the press in a week.

But I think you have a pre-disposition to doll obsession to really get into it. I have always loved dolls and I don't think it would affect my love of them though if that happened. Hey, maybe I could take my Zuzu delf clubbing and no one would look at me funny.

 

No, about a fourth to a third of the forum members here never played with dolls until they saw BJDs, and I'm one of them!

 

Ummm no. I hate dolls, seriously. Who wants 25 empty eyed zombies lined up on a shelf with the same face just different clothes (think Madame Alexander)? Or God forbid waking up in the middle of the night to a line of staring Blythes? I'd smash them before I was fully awake. But bjds are more like small people I can hang out with, so I buy them. I have 6 now, one head and 2 more heads on order...

As far as celebs go, I may be underestimating the mind of your average celebrity but I don't see Paris Hilton or anyone else going clubbing with a doll. Carrying dolls isn't percieved as kool in the Western World, it's seen as creepy or childish. I could see a celeb collecting them but to carry them out clubbing or shopping? Nah, that's why they have kids, so they can look like cool down to earth parents not freaky over sized children.

 

I had to lol at that one. And yeah I agree I don't think it would get to that standard. I do believe BJD are going to become extremely popular but like with all things it'll be a fad. Like everyone suddenly loved Furbies but now you don't hear a peep about them. The true lovers of BJD will remain while the people who just saw it as a passing fancy will eventually fade away. It happens with every collectors item just like it happens with fashion. Things come and go but those that truly love it stay with it.

 

That did make me laugh. But I think you underestimate the narcissism of the average celebrity. I don't think Mary Kate and Ashley are going to be trolling the MP looking for a cut price Sard.

But Minimees...I think can certainly see Lily Allen and Peaches Geldolf being thrilled with the idea of miniature versions of themselves in matching Chanel to parade around Bungalow 8 and the other members clubs in London.

But no, you are probably right Toshirodragon. We won't see Meryl Streep carrying one any time soon.

 

Well, in all sincerity I would like them to become more known. Simply because of the fact that I don't want to hide my doll from the eyes of others, by fear of getting the 'what the hell is wrong with you?' look or by fear that someone will not know how much my doll is worth, see it, and wreck it by innocently 'playing' with it, thinking it was a doll as resistant as a barbie.

I don't care if they become more 'popular' or not, but having a good majority of people at least know what BJDs are and entails would do more good than bad, I find. Currently, I think BJDs are not known enough.

A: good/bad for collectors
Good and bad. Bad, because we might suffer from quality losses on one hand. However, I think despite the popularity increase, some companies will be willing to keep their quality high and consistent (Volks, for example). Good, simply for public opinion and more ressources and activities related to BJDs. More people knowing about it will also (hopefully) mean people being better informed about BJDs, and hopefully aid in the many mishaps of buying online such as recasts or not knowing what goes with what. Plus, there's a likely hood of BJD shops opening a little everywhere because of popularity. I'd really love to buy BJDs in a physical store rather than an online one.

B: make BJDs lose their uniqueness for being different
I don't think so, simply because of the fact that BJDs can always be customized, and therefore will always remain unique to each and individual owner.

C: make you mutter "I was doing it before it was cool."
BWAHAHA. No.

 

It's true~! Though I played with dolls as a small child, I lost that interest around age 4, when I learned to read. @.@ After that, I never really had an interest in dolls! But then I went to an anime con and saw my first real-life BJD.
Even though I did play with dolls at a very young age... The way I 'played' with those dolls and the way I 'play' with my BJDs are very different things. @.@ There were really only a few years were I had my Barbies having torrid love affairs with my Ken's... After that, I mostly enjoyed setting up and tearing apart my doll house. o.o

However, I feel that that's pretty different from dressing up and taking photos of Allura~! ^___^

At best, you might be able to say that you need to have an overactive imagination to get into BJDs... But even that doesn't apply to everyone! There are all sorts of BJD owners; I don't know that you can stereotype us all completely!

ANNNYYWAYS~! I'm really not sure that BJDs will become super main stream any time soon. Okay, well, if Stephanie Meyer commissioned a big company to make an Edward doll then stuck it all over the internet, maybe--but even in a situation like that... It would probably die down pretty quick.

 

Fortunately there is already a large-scale Edward doll out there, and it's not a BJD.

Really what I can see happening is the advent of a new type of 'BJD'. Mass produced non-resin dolls (cut down on production costs and time with a more familiar material) that are strung unlike obitsu/dollfie dream. They would likely be treated more like a fashion doll, even while customizable. Somehow I doubt them being more than $200 each, and I can imagine they wouldn't fit into DoA's requirements. I'm thinking Jun Planning's Ai Doll in concept here except more fitting for the western population.

In any case, a mass produced western-based doll likely won't fit the aesthetic we're looking for and familiar with, and they'll probably more resemble minimees based on real people or barbies, face-wise.

 

I'm one of them too -- abjds seem to appeal to a lot of people that were never into dolls before.

That being said...I really don't see abjds reaching mainstream popularity through celebs. Adults playing with dolls just isn't seen as cool, and I don't see them becoming fashion accessories any time in the near future. We love our dolls, and our community has certainly grown. But, I think people have a tendency to overestimate it's size and impact in comparison to the rest of the world. We're a small sub-genre of another hobby (doll collecting). I think non-bjd doll collectors are much more aware of them through various events and magazines, and you get people from hobbies that overlap with ours (like anime, Asian music and culture etc) that tend to come in contact with them also becoming involved (as well as friends of abjd folks--bjds have a way of sucking people in). But these are really different situations from the average person who tend to have some baggage about what dolls are and are for and would most likely balk at the price tags attached.

You don't have to love dolls to get into the bjd hobby (as is proven by many of us here on DoA), but perhaps there is often more open mindedness both towards new things and the idea that as adults it's ok to have our toys--there are a lot of people out there that aren't like that. Often the idea of acceptable adult 'toy' are things like gadgets, cars, electronics, actual fashion accessories and the like--not things that look anything like what is commonly associated with children.

For somethings to hit true mainstream popularity, there has to be an adjustment in how the average person views them, and most average adults will view dolls as something for children. That's why the amount of money is shocking (because to a lot of folks they're 'just dolls'), and people don't necessarily understand all the hands on involvement. It's very possible for something to become more popular and known, but never reach the point of being truly mainstream--especially for adults. When I do have a doll out with me, I often get some very nice comments from nondoll people, but that doesn't mean that those same people would be comfortable walking around with a doll or that the 95% that don't say anything at all don't think it's more than a little odd.