How much is too much??

First of all, I would like to know what is this place where you friend is from where where the law dictates the price of dolls. Second, art prints are copies of the original art piece with even less individuality than a BJD, which do have hand painted faces, and they still can cost more than BJDs.

But in the end, nothing has intrinsic value. It's demand versus supply. It's cost versus profit. It's not written on stone how much a doll can cost, just how much people expect them to cost. Your friend's expectations were at radical odds with reality, that's why I he is so upset I think.

The only thing that matters to me is how much my dolls are worth to me personally.

 

Well, if you want to look at the perspective of BJDs not being an art piece, there are many factors as to why a doll costs as much as they do, despite the fact they are made in mass compared to say, the Mona Lisa.

I'm not sure if you're aware, but 99% of companies don't actually make a big profit from manufacturing BJDs, and the main staff for a company is usually very small (I think VOLKs has the largest BJD dedicated team I have ever seen, but they ARE the oldest company and basically the founder of modern BJDs as it stands). A VERY popular BJD company almost closed down last year due to low sales, and high recast rates, and their MSDs alone range from around $400-$500. Again, VERY popular company. STILL very popular to this day. And they almost closed down.

If we want to cheapen costs as much as we can, we can use companies like Switch for example who typically just sell heads, or blank dolls on their own (unless there's a special occasion). So what would be some of their expenses?

• Paying a factory to cast their dolls. (Also just an FYI, molds for molten hot plastic doesn't last. They usually can get around, example,10 heads from 1 mold before the mold has to be replaced. So molds cost money too.)
• They have to pay staff to assemble and quality check the product.
• Storage to check, assemble, and ship out dolls.

So what about special cases? What do they commonly have to pay for?

• Make up artists, and the materials they use. Most of which aren't always the cheapest. Since resin is finicky, even the materials they use has to be specific as not spoil the resin. Some companies also employ outsource make up artists to work on limited editions. So that's a whole 'nother artist's time and work that needs to be paid for.
• Often times clothing is NOT done in house, or at the factory. So they often pay a designer to transform concept to textile.
• Then that leads to paying an outsource tailor to produce the clothes/wigs/shoes.
• Storage, so that everything can be in one place when they ship it out.

And of course, one thing that we will always be paying for;

• Workmanship. All dolls are hand assembled, hand painted, and hand packed.
• You are paying the artist for their work. Sometimes there are more than 1 artist working on 1 doll. The artist for the head can often be different from the artist who created the body, and sometimes those 2 artists are different from the artist that makes special limbs and accessories.
• Raw molten resin is still toxic to inhale. Making sure the health of people dealing with the melty fetus of a doll requires decent payment.
• You are paying for the brand. At the end of the day, selling anything is a form of business. It's illogical to hope for companies to not make a little bit of profit from their hard work. Otherwise,why would anyone really bother selling and distributing BJDs? Or anything, period?
• You're not usually buying an art piece (even though one off dolls do exist), but you are buying a luxury item, not a basic necessity. All luxuries are expensive because they fulfill an unnecessary, but very specific genre.

There are definitely other expenses depending on how a company runs. Such as a showroom, and office, a physical store, personal factory, RENT, etc.

So to wrap up all my jibber jabber, as a customer, I feel like we'll always be unsatisfied with something when we have such a big selection of companies to order from. I have certainly looked at dolls and thought 'Man, that's an expensive slab of plastic'. But at the end of the day, who am I to determine the worth of someone else's work, when I have not spent a single second watching the process it takes to make a doll sellable? I just won't buy it if it's too much for me. But whether I choose that someone is too much for me, is personal preference.

And the dolls I do own? Their beauty is priceless.

Maybe don't think of a doll as an art piece, but maybe you can see them as collectibles? They're more versatile than a figurine, and have so many more possibilities than limited collector figures. It takes alot of effort to bring a doll to the table. As a consumer, we don't know what happens behind the scenes. And the price of dolls will always fluctuate depending on the artist. Some artists price themselves lower than others, but their time and work, is still their time and work regardless.

 

While @NosKryme bring up many good points, just to avoid misinformation I feel I have to point out that resin is not molten plastic. Polyurethane plastic is cast as a liquid called a resin and cures due to a chemical reaction into a hard plastic. This differs from a thermoplastic that softens and eventually melt with heat.
The wear to the molds ar real, though. Depending on types of silicone used for the mold, complexity, size, resin colour etc. you can expect anything between 10 and maybe 30 good casts before a mold needs to be remade.

 

An important point to consider is the cost of workmanship is different depending on the country of origin. Japan and Korea both have minimum wages of about 8 USD and I don't think everyone involvey in the doll business is paid minimum wage.

There can be a gap between the wage level of the consumers and the producers and it's a problem all higher income countries struggle with.
The consumers will always value prices according to their own cost of living. So an item that costs 10 USD can either be expensive or cheap depending on where you live. On the other hand the producers need to calculate with their economies/costs of living in mind. No party is in the wrong here but it can lead to unfortunate situations. Like the consumers couldn't care less about the higher wage level of the producing companies while the companies can only lower their product prices so much before it's no longer profitable.

 

For me - from 700$ for body and 900-1000$ for whole doll. Head price needs to be less than $500.

 

@GarblePlz There are dolls for every pocket: from 100 usd (even less) to 2k and counting. There is really no need to throw money away if they don't want to spend an arm and a leg for this hobby.

Aftermarket is always a gamble thou: you could find your grail for 1k and next month the very same doll is sold for half that price (Unless it's some doll that has a set price, like a Volks Lorina).

Waiting is everything in this hobby, afterall.

 

Eh. Dolls are, in many ways, just like any other collectibles hobby.... And if there's one thing that collectibles *don't* tend to follow, it's any kind of rational, production- or materials-based pricing scheme.

I mean, seriously, is a little one inch by one inch paper square with an upside-down biplane printed on it REALLY worth almost a million dollars? Nope, Not by any stretch of the imagination. Unless you're a serious stamp collector and that scrap of misprinted paper happens to be an Inverted Jenny.

Dolls are the same way. What they're subjectively "worth" is disconnected, at least to some extent, from their cost in materials or production. That's a product of our seeing them as art, or as luxury items... as collectibles... rather than seeing them strictly as commodity products.

 

A lot of non-doll collectors have trouble understanding the vast difference in price between a doll mass produced for children and a resin doll that is hand finished for adult collectors. Personally I am not willing to pay the (reasonably created) asking price of many newer small artist dolls. However, I will often pay the extra fee for tan or fantasy colored resin.

I have an upper limit of $500, as more than that wouldn't be "worth it" to me. I'm also not interested in anything bigger than an MSD.

 

To me, if I love the doll and I want to actually own it, then it's not over priced. Whether it is a mass-produced fashion doll, or one of these kinds of dolls. If I look at a doll, and I don't want it/don't-like-it, then I'll probably have a hard time justifying its price tag, even if it's a few US-dollars. However, I have a few exceptions, and it comes down to mass-produced dolls -- like OT Mattel ones (I love Barbie, I grew up collecting and still collect them, but I won't pay over 35USD for one, no matter how much I love the actual doll. I know I'll probably regret it later like with Hello Kitty and Toki Doki ones, but oh well. I can't justify paying over $35 for a Barbie and that's that!).

Having said that, I never judge what other people are willing to pay for their own collections. I don't work to help others pay for their hobbies, I work to pay for my own stuff so I judge my own spending and whatever others are willing to pay for whatever it is they collect is their own business. If I see a doll I wouldn't pay a cent for, going for over 200K USD, and there are people who are willing and able to pay for it, I won't give my opinion on whether it's worth it or not. I personally wouldn't pay that amount for a doll (ever!), but that's just me. (:

 

If something brings me long term happiness and entertainment, it was probably worth purchasing. If something is completely useless, it is probably a waste of money.

To explain: I purchased an e-reader earlier this year. I read, a lot. The e-reader was on sale. It was much less expensive than a doll. Any sane human being, including most of my family members, agreed that it was a good purchse. I have barely touched it. I don't use it. It turns out I do most of my reading with one eye, face down in bed. A phone is all I need, because I am very near-sighted and can't see more than a few inches away anyway. The e-reader was a waste of money for me, because it was effectively useless.

Around the same time, I purchased a doll. I have gotten much more enjoyment out of the doll. I have done more with the doll. I have communicated with other human beings in a social setting because of the doll. I have gotten quite a few hours of entertainment out of the doll. The doll has also inspired me to do other creative things. The doll was not a waste of money, because she has been a positive and useful thing in my life (even if she is more or less a glorified toy).

Something is a waste of money if you paid money for it and don't get the use out of it that you were expecting. Something is a waste of money if it looked much better than it turned out to be. The e-reader was a more conventional purchase, and yet it was a waste of money. The doll is a bit more eyebrow-raising, but wasn't a waste of money because she has brought me rather a lot of entertainment.

As for the relative value of dolls... I have had some dolls that were wastes of money because I found them uninspiring, hard to pose, or frustrating. I have learned that if I pay a bit more for a doll that does exactly what I want, I will be happier and more inspired, so the doll is more valuable to me. This does mean I can't afford to have a huge BJD collection, but that's probably for the best anyway.

 

Hm... I personally don't see why art can't be considered art just because there's more than one copy of it. If someone valued art just because of the market price and the fact there's only one of it in the world - that seems more like the person likes the money aspect of the piece, and not the art itself. There are, apparently surprisingly, art pieces already in existence that actually have more than one copy. There is usually a limited number of them and for the sake of value the artist will often number them (e.g. there may be a mark on the back written "5/100") but the number of copies, to me, doesn't change the fact a piece is either beautiful or incomprehensible to me.

I'm also of the mindset that I don't always chase after the 'biggest bargain'. Yes, I'd love to save my money and get the best deal possible, but I like being rewarded for my own efforts and skills. So I do the same for others. I will pay more for an item or service that is of higher quality because: 1. I love it and enjoy it that much more, and 2. The person that provided that item or service deserves the extra profit. And if I think I paid too much for something as an after thought... Yup, it happens. Then I just won't buy something from them again or think about why I thought it was a good idea at the time to not repeat the mistake in the future.

As for them wanting to buy a recast... Well to put it in simpler terms: I like nice things. I like nice people. I don't want to see either of them disappear just because people find it more 'worth it' to line the pockets of greedy people that are stealing from the nice ones. This is a luxury hobby. If there's a doll that I can't afford and/or don't think it's worth the price - I obviously do not need it, and the same lack of need applies to any 'cheaper alternative'.

 

Ask your friend to sculpt a human head. Then ask them how much they'd pay to get the education they'd need to do a better job. THen ask them how much they'd like to make for one hour of labor. Then ask them if they can cast in a two part resin mold, and if they own the equipment and safety gear to do so. Then ask them to paint a few faceups.

They may change their tune on how much a custom piece of handmade art costs. Art is Art even when it's dolls, and Art is hard highly specialized work that takes years to learn to do.

 

Too much is just whatever I'm not willing to pay for the item. If I'm not willing to spend the money, someone else likely is, assuming at least one person exists that thinks the item is worth the money. As long as there's a demand, my personal idea of too much doesn't matter.

I personally think a lot of limited dolls aren't worth their aftermarket price even if I'm willing to pay the original price. And that's okay. Most people wouldn't even think the doll is worth its original price. There's no reason pay more than you're willing. It's a luxury hobby after all. I don't actually need any of these things I'm surely not going to die if I don't get the doll I want! Even if I tell my mom that I will

 

I've paid about $400-450 for my most favourite dolls and that's my personal limit. Well, $300-350 for msds, $250 for yosds. I only love and collect SDs though (with a few exceptions)

I honestly find the smaller sizes totally uneconomical, so to speak. I mean, you pay SO MUCH MONEY for such a tiny 'dollieh', usually lacking details in realism.. Be it in the sculpt itself or in the non-detailed accesories. Often, small dolls have sausage-like limbs, hardly any face definition, etc. Sure, they're cute and all, but they look and feel like toys to me and there are only a handful of companies whose yosds, for instance, I would find worth their price.

That being said, I love that the bjds are like no other dolls around. Sure, you have plenty of dolls which are e.g. tall fashion dolls, or that have fine realistic features, or that are highly customizable, or that have changeable wigs or eyes... But bjds seem to be the only ones that have all of it in one. Like... So many wigged fashion dolls have ugly, bobbly heads. Barbs have theirs cute, but you cant change the hair easily. The 'grandma' porcelain dolls are often tall, but they look like overdressed toddlers... And so on. Bjds are truly the ultimate perfection in the doll hobby and even though I frankly think any price above $200 for an SD, for instance, is ridiculous, I can totally pay over twice as much for cute, realistic and defined dolls like so many of them are.

I also think that often the food I buy is overpriced, e.g. when a high quality bacon with no preservatives costs 3x as much as some cheap one, soaking with water and sodium nitrate it is sure overpriced, but if it's my health, I'm willing to pay the price. My mental health and deriving some pleasure from my life are also worth some degree of the bjd's being overpriced. Just not going crazy with it... Likewise, in a restaurant I'd not pay two hours if my worth-worth of money for some fancy meal... And... I'd never buy a LV handbag where I can buy a high quality leather piece that looks awesome for a fraction. (Still, I won't buy some 'vegan' leather crap that will chip within some time either).

Some people have different priorities though. It all depends on the lifestyle too. E.g I love my tiny French car, but if I drove long distance daily I'd have never owned it... It's slow, loud and relatively uncomfortable. But for the city traffic it has to endure daily it's perfect. Likewise the people who buy those plastic dolls with socket joints that are now flooding aliexpress and are labelled as bjd... Are imo folks whose sense of aesthetics is that of a chair or a spoon and anyone who wants an art piece of a doll knows they have to shell out a lot more for it. Some people just can't recognize the true value of some things (now I feel the anger of girls like my neighbour with fake lips, lashes and nails reserving the front passenger seat of her beemer entirely to her very genuine, albeit very basic LV handbag xD)

It's all subjective and just like so many people don't mind food with preservatives or the fast fashion from sweatshops, they also don't mind owning sh*ttons of cheap-looking dolls or recasts.

 

I'm not sure because I bought the heads of my dolls separate from the body, but I figured out the heads with custom face-up and wig were $500 by themselves and then the body I want is almost $600. That's not even taking into consideration custom clothing - so I guess they're well over $1000. I just don't have to pay it all up front, so it doesn't seem like that much.

 

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Too much is when you have no more room for Dollstuff. (Oh, and when you're wondering if you should pay rent or a for a doll.. Hobbies comes after neccesities)