how uncomfortable would this make you?

Since I post my own writings and drawings online, I am inclined to agree with you... in an ideal world we would not only have such expectations, but those expectations would be met... but this isn't an ideal world. You can have your expectations... but you can't just choose to ignore the risks.

 

So, just to be clear, they include that in their ToS just so they can show you the images that you uploaded to the site?

I had thought they were also letting other places use them.

 

Obviously I can't expect everyone in the world to be a law-abiding citizen, however if someone steals something from me, I can take legal action against them.

 

Well, I'm going to bite my tongue on a lot of things, because I really don't want to get snarky on someone in the heat of the moment and then need to apologize later, so skipping the big debate and just answering the questions...

If I was credited, and had no problems with the way in which my image was used, I would be fine-- in fact, if it was, say, on tumblr, and I saw a photo I took crop up somewhere (not a confession blog, that I would not be so okay with), with no credit and maybe a 'what sculpt is this?' kind of comment, I'd message the person with an answer and a request for credit.

If I was uncredited, or if my photo was used in any way that A) went opposite to my beliefs/feelings or B) was intended to make anyone feel bad (or C) was intended to make me feel bad, I guess...), then I would want it taken down, and depending on the TOS for the place where I found it, I might take further action. It really depends, but credit is a serious thing, and while I am all for sharing art around, when I create an image, I deserve and desire some say in where and how that image is used, and what it is being used to say, and I am willing to further educate myself on where/when the law is on my side, but as I understand it... well, the law is on my side, and anyone claiming that it isn't is ill-informed at best.

=^__^=
Anneko

 

I want to ask this before I go ahead and do it, but do you think it's better to post the sites we're discussing or to leave it alone?

I ask because it can be both beneficial and not beneficial. One one hand, owners can flock over to see if their photos were used... on the other hand, the sites get more traffic and more press.

 

Go right ahead. I won't abide any losses, it's not like I'm a part of the guilty party. The closest thing I use another image for is for references in body posing...but I suppose if that's illegal, I best stop that, huh?

 

writerm- I'd like to know, because as much as I'd hate to give the traffic, I'd hate it even more if one of my photos was up there without my knowledge. (not likely, because I'm not a brilliant photographer, but still...)

=^__^=
Anneko

 

@Ethra: "On the Internet" =/= "Public Domain"

Public Domain (as it applies to copyright, someone correct me if I'm wrong) means that the owner has relinquished all rights and ownership of the image, or that a certain amount of time has passed and the law says that the copyright ends, so anyone could use it without asking.

Yes, there are risks to posting online, but people still have a reasonable expectation that they and their work should be treated with respect. And they have the right to get mad and do something about it. (just as you have the right to sit and do nothing.)

The other problem I have is that if you (general "you") don't react to one instance of image theft, it could spread out of control. Your photo ends up on one of those blogs; it's credited, so you do nothing. Then some skeezy scam artist comes along and steals the stolen photo. They use your image to defraud somebody, maybe selling some toxic recast that only sort of looks like your picture. So, even though the first use was "innocent," the farther the photo gets from you, the more likely there will be a usage you wouldn't support.

Better, IMO, to nip it in the bud, than wait for some "Little Shop of Horrors" scenario.

 

I PMed you a few links. I feel better about PMing rather than posting it and having them get any extra traffic.

Ugh, don't remind me. A friend spent the better part of last year deleting old accounts because - as we later found - some of those website's ToS allowed them to share certain information with 3rd party websites. There are a bunch of 3rd party sites that will bring up your info because you've blindly supplied it to a place you trusted - and they're popular sites, not some obscure niche website. You can opt out of some of their sections, but not all.

 

It's not, actually. As long as there are a certain amount of points of differences between the two images, you're in the clear. So if you use a photograph of a naked guy posing to draw your character in a pose and you draw in your chara's facial features and clothes and everything, it's fine. However if you reproduced the photo exactly, or very closely, then you'll have trouble.

 

Kymera You can't exactly blame the blog for that senario. That "scam artist" could just as easily find it on here, or on google, or on DA. Even if the photo is taken off the blog... it's still on the internet and just as vulnerable regardless of where in the internet it is. So your "nip it in the bud" strategy essentially fails.

While I thank you for that, the last bit was sort of some of my smartass-y sarcasm.... I know that merely using a referance for a pose is not illegal (thank God because I do that a LOT). Though I wish I had the skills to recreate a photo with pencil...without tracing... but I digress.

 

As long as it's YOUR photo you're tracing, you're still in the clear. (I actually use this quite often when I'm on a deadline for projects for school. It's perfectly legit.)

 

Well I don't plan to ever do any tracing... cuz I suck at it. And I don't plan to recreate photos in any other way either. So I'm very much in the clear.

 

Ethra: *eye roll* They aren't exactly helping the situation, either. The chances of a random person finding 1 image are much less than if that image had been spread around like a zombie virus.

Well said. Also... the scenario you pose is probably one of the very few I wouldn't have a problem with. It's an honest question. I would answer the question and probably ask them to go back and link to the image in my gallery, as opposed to them posting/hosting the image themselves. Not only does that limit the spread of the picture, but it gets more exposure for my site also.

 

Tch. Nevermind that these blogs do give links to the owner's own sites, essentially promoting them. Once again, this boils down to someone getting a little miffed and blowing it out of proportion.

If credit is not given, and a link to the original location of the photo is not given, I can side with you... but I don't see how bringing up a photo, then putting a link to the source--bascially saying, here's who took this photo, go check them out--can be anything like some sleaze-ball yanking the photo off google to use in their bootleg business.

But we all have our opinions.

 

I love these discussions because no one ever seems to actually take into account the facts of Tumblr and it's weirdly badly written system.

Asking the person who took your image without any form of permission and posted it to Tumblr to REMOVE said image will ONLY remove that image from their original post. It has NO EFFECT WHATSOEVER on all the reblogged versions of that image that result from the original post. The ONLY method to remove those too is to have the Tumblr support team remove them from the servers directly, and to do that, you have to report the original post to them.

So all those blog owners out there with that little disclaimer of "If you don't want it up here, just ask and we'll remove it", it's nice that you're trying to do the right thing, but it means nothing, anyone who wants their photo removed HAS NO CHOICE but to report it to Tumblr to get it taken down.

My second favourite overused arguement in all of this is the timescale one. "I can't ask everyone who's picture I take for their permission to use it because it would take too much time". Right. Because obviously the end of the world will come if a confessions blog on Tumblr doesn't update regularly due to someone needing to ask permission for photo use.

Personally, I don't allow my photo's to be on Tumblr. I accept that if I put something online, some idiot too lazy to create their own content will probably attempt to take it, but they also need to accept that I will report any copyright violations and do my best to prevent them trying it in the first place. I'm not going to roll over and just let them do it and I don't expect them to either. It's an evenly matched war and Tumblr is just the most currently helpful of my oppositions assistants.

 

It's the principle of the matter. I actually view it as a greater betrayal of trust if someone from here were to take one of my photos, as opposed to some sleazeball scammer. I don't expect anything from a scammer, but I do have certain expectations of people in this hobby.

I want to believe that I can trust the majority of the members on this forum and that the trust and respect is mutual. And if that is all true, then I don't see why it's so difficult to just ask to use my photos. It's just straight up rude not to (and that's putting it lightly, IMO).

This is also a fairly small community... I don't know why the people who run these blogs think that nobody will notice. Especially when it's already been proven that it tends to upset a lot of people. If they just asked in the first place then we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Besides that... I think even the owners who don't care what happens to their photos would still get a kick out of being told that their photos are being included in some blog. So it's a win/win situation, really.

 

What can I add that hasn't already been said here already (and many times in previous threads)? Photographs are the photographer's intellectual property and are protected under international law. So, not only is it impolite to post a photograph without the photographer's permission, it is illegal.

Having said that, I tend to let it lie when I see my photos turn up on the 'net, credited or uncredited, as they seem to be used as a "That's nice" or "I like this sculpt" example. It doesn't bother me too much now. Where I do draw the line is when my pictures are being used to make someone else some money (and, yes that has happened). Then I have to step in.

A good friend pointed out that one of my photos was being used on one of the two confessions sites. I looked, I wasn't offended (even though they couldn't spell my username) and I let it go. However, having read the unbelievably cavalier posts of someone on here, who I must assume is involved in one of these sites, I do not want my work to be in any way associated with it. I now have to decide whether to demand that they take it down and report them to Tumblr or whether to leave it there because people who presumably don't have such an attitude like it. Give me a while on that one.

Yes, there is absolutely no excuse for art theft. It is yet another manifestation of the sense of entitlement that seems so prevalent in this hobby. Really rather depressing.

 

I'm not going to comment on images being used for things like confession images as this isn't something that I can see mentioned on the original post, it usually involves image manipulation which is a different subject and its something that has already been discussed elsewhere

I seem to be in the minority and not everyone sees this the way I do but personally if I have put my photo somewhere visible to everyone and they've linked me back and credited me I have no problem with this even if they don't ask, I don't even consider it rude not to ask. To me this falls under fair use for education as when I upload public images its to share and pass on information ("this is my X doll by Y company and this is what you can do with it when Z..." etc)

Discomfort: 0/10

I'm not exactly going to be thrilled about someone saying uncomplimentary things about my dolls but I can put on my big girl panties and deal with it. I think this going to depend on exactly whats said though, someone putting up a genuine critique even if its not well worded/ written is one thing and even if I don't like whats being said I understand that if I make my images public they are subject to artistic review whether complimentary and solicited or not. if it starts slipping towards a more personal attack then its different, then I might get a bit uncomfortable but probably not enough for me to ask the poster or blog host to remove the post unless it was really bad

Discomfort 2ish/10

again this wouldn't really make me uncomfortable from the point of view that they posted my image without asking as I personally would consider it under education ("this is an example of a doll with massive boobs...") or artistic review but I might be a bit uncomfortable from a more personal point of view about the comments depending on the context (for example comments like "nice boobs" would be expected somewhat if I had a dollmore glamour model girl but I wouldn't expect it for my leeke art body girls)

Discomfort because of my image being used 0/10

this is hard for me to answer as although it seems I'm in the minority the chances are I probably wouldn't ask in the first place but the first quote would make me laugh as its nonsense if they said the second then I would explain why I don't think what they were doing would come under fair use and ask politely again that they removed it, it it was something that really bothered me and they still hadn't I would explain the incident to the blog host

if my image was associated with misinformation or was posted on something unrelated then yes this would make me uncomfortable, I would politely ask that either they correct the information or remove my image (see above)

Discomfort 2~6/10 depending on the situation

its not ok with me when images are not credited or when the poster claims ownership or when they are used for misinformation

when it starts degenerating into personal attacks, rants, name calling and arguments I think its overreacting

I just wanted to add I have had my artwork "borrowed" a few times without a link or credit or anyone asking me permission and yes this makes me uncomfortable especially when the person claimed the images were their own but equally I have been made even more uncomfortable when well meaning people have harassed the erring party on my behalf without telling me

TL;DR
I'm generally not bothered