how uncomfortable would this make you?

I don't really care if someone uses pics of my dolls or posts them somewhere else, comments on them or criticises them. If I was worried about it I wouldn't put them up on Flickr or on forums etc. I guess that I don't really think of my dolls as "my art" or anything like that, so I don't really care. I don't even think of my doll photos as art if truth be told. If someone was selling pics of my dolls and claiming them as their own, or if they were tracing pics of my dolls and selling them as art (like Minje Schatje was doing) then I would be more concerned.

 

It happened to me, it was a picture of a commission I did (actually the photo I use in my signature), and people were coming to me "don't you want to tell them they should remove the photo etc." and I told them I don't care.
Why?
Because in the end it brought me a lot of commissions and people got to know my work :3
And the confession was not really nice either, it was about how disgusting scars on dolls are and how boring and horrible dolls are with a story that involves scars, something I not only did for commissions but also have sitting here.
As long as I am linked back I'm fine with it.
Most of these images are not used for confessions that actual have something to do with the doll or owner anyway (like "I hate person's XY dolls"), and sometimes they use images that are exactly the opposite of the confession ("BBB dolls are so ugly!" -> picture of an amazingly customized BBB) just to make a point to the person who made the confession.

If you don't want your pictures floating around in the internet, don't post them.
Even if people don't use them for such things it's pretty likely that your pictures might end on some sites you don't even have an account on.
I found my BJDs already on plenty of russian sites, tumblr, weheartit, blogs etc., and in most cases people linked back and wrote nice comments about them (the russians seem to love our chess pieces and the japanese have a soft hear for one of my cats named Kyoko).
I also found myself in cosplays, and also my photos I took of my girlfriend in cosplays, on various websites and forums where people talked about it.
Images are being shared, and I'm sure YOU have also already done that with photos, fanarts and co. :3
How many of you had already an icon/avatar with a fanart from your favourite series or movie for example?


As long as people don't make money with my work, alternate it, claim it as their own work or use it for their own characters I'm fine with my stuff being posted.
I have my signature on it so people can find back to me, and that's all it needs.
And even if the signature is removed my name and website is still in the exifs and if THESE are already removed...hell, then I have to deal with that

 

Personally, I don't give a damn where any of my stuff ends up. I'm not pretty enough for my photos on Facebook to end up anywhere, and my art's not good enough for someone to want to use it... but I still put my sig on it.

Really it doesn't matter how many lengths you go to, what you put online will *never* ever be private. Ever. End of story. Someone will always have access to your information, and that's something people need to accept. There is no victim blaming going on. I'm not going to look at someone who had their work stolen online and say "Well, your fault, shouldn't have put it online." But at the same time, everyone needs to be aware of the fact that someone can always be able to access your work... and if they can access it, they can steal it.

I honestly think calling those who run those confession blogs thieves is just... unecessary. How can one steal something and then credit you and provide a link to your work... that's like some idiot stealing your stereo and bragging all over town that "I stole this, and here's where I got it from" (though sadly I'm sure there are idiots out there that would screw themselves by doing that....). They aren't stealing from you, they are effing promoting you!

Maybe you don't like that someone found your work and posted it without your knowledge, and that's okay... but the internet is not like the real world... things just don't work the same, and lines are blurred and sometimes nonexistent. The one thing that is no different is that the humans that use the internet are just as eager to blow thing out of proportion and make drama where no drama needs to be.

You're not getting anything accomplished... you're parading around making things sour for everyone else, and for what? For a miniscule piece of computer code.

 

This arguement runs both ways. Those people that don't like their images being used without permission feel the same way about those that take them. I don't appreciate people "parading around making things sour" for me by taking my images either, but they still do it, so...I'm just supposed to let them? Don't think so. I said it in my previous post here but evidently it bears repeating:
I accept that they're likely to try and take my images, but they need to accept that I'm going to do my level best to prevent them doing it too, and even Tumblr's at best dubious content policy will back me up in doing so.

 

I can totally see how you'd be okay with that, Ara*

And I really, really, really wish I lived in the EU so I could commission you.

I've just always wanted to tell you that. /OT

 

As a photographer, I think it falls into parody work, or derivative work, which is acceptable under fair use...

 

Why don't you just accept it as free promotion and move on with it? I mean it's pretty obvious to me what "This certain blog" is, and they state pretty clearly that they don't mean to use any picture in a non complementary way, and they will remove the picture upon request.

Just because one picture is used, doesn't mean the people going in to your photos are going to expect every picture to be the same. Frankly I'd be flattered if they chose one of my pictures, I wish my photography skills were good enough to work in one of their posts. They make the pictures look good, and I have not once looked at one of their pictures and been like "Nice boobs/ass" because they're just dolls, and I have only had good thoughts about all the pictures I've seen.

 

Aaaaactually... most of the confessions are more satirical in nature since the images are used as a backdrop for an issue that may not even be about the doll in the photo. Parodies are more apt to be protected under the Fair Use doctrine than satire, though...

Still, in my opinion, if no money is being made from the image in question on either side... you should just ask it be taken down, and if they promptly remove it, just leave it at that... If they don't, *then* report the site/blog/person/dog/whatever.

^So well said.

 

It irritates me when people take images without crediting. Happens with my drawings more than my dolls though. If you have time to save a piece of art, you have time to copy paste a web address. Or e-mail me... I'm only online 10+ hours or so a day... And now that Google has reverse image search (TinEye was nice, but Google has more search-power), finding where images came from is even easier. ((So helpful when I lose a website but saved a couple images from it.)) I assume the average internet user does not go "OH MY GOD! I ONLY HAVE THE INTERNET FOR 1 SECOND! NO TTTTIMMMMEEEEEE! POSTY POSTY!"

It's not "if you don't want it stolen don't put it online" It's "I'm the copyright holder and you're a fool if you feel butthurt that I'm telling you to take it down."

I'm okay with it if I get credited but not asked (at least I can get web traffic back), but I prefer people to ask before they run off posting my pictures somewhere just to satisfy my curiosity and to prevent any misunderstandings because I have had some instances of people coming to me thinking art was stolen but it was being used by someone I gave the greenlight to.

Though I'm not quite to the point of finding the deadliest lawyer in the land until I feel like profit is being stolen. And I might be driven to trying to get an angry internet mob if I see my pictures being used in a post to badmouth me or something and the person who posted it is unrepentant scum. I can deal with people who just don't get copyright law because that's fixable with some education on the subject, but people who act like it's their right to take images just grind my gears.


It's also weird when people claim they love my work, when I point out they apparently can't be bothered to ask for permission or credit back. How much do you really like me if you can't spend a few seconds to help me out? I know everyone who likes my art can't all support me financially by buying my work and stuff like that, but I assume talking to me and telling other people where you saw my art is within the means of anyone. It's like the friend who says they like you but treats you like poop.

I dunno. I just don't think it's all that "flattering" to be liked by inconsiderate people.

 

This has never happened to me (probably because my photos generally are not top quality), but I've had more of my artwork gacked and used for icons, avatars, website designs, and such than I could possibly be bothered to relate (having been active on the Web since the mid-1990s). So I definitely know how it feels to stumble across a random website and see something I created looking back at me...with no mention of my creating it whatsoever.

There's a general attitude that if an image is on the Net, then it's free for anyone to use. Thankfully, more intelligent people don't have that attitude. It's just important to remember that the people who take without asking aren't as smart or considerate as those who properly ask for permission--in fact, most (though not all of them) are very young and might not know any better.

Nine times out of ten, I usually just let it go. There are much more important things to worry about than whether someone's using one of my pieces of art as a base for a LJ icon. Now, if someone took my art and claimed it as their own work, I might get het up about it and take action. But that's a deliberate fraud and very different from simply "discovering" an image on the Web and deciding it looks pretty enough to use.

If you don't want there to be any confusion about where your photos come from. stamp them with your name (or your initials at least). That lets people know the image belongs to someone else.

 

It is a sad fact of the internet that there is pretty much no privacy, and there are a lot of rude people that just don't think before they do things. So yes, people should be aware of this before they post pics or any kind of personal/sensitive information. That said, just because it happens doesn't make it right. And when people say 'it's going to happen anyway, so why make a fuss, why care?' they are only being part of the problem.

You could accuse them of being thieves because they are using your work without permission. Yes, giving credit is a big step up, but they should really ask -- it's the decent thing to do. And not everybody wants that kind of promotion -- particularly if the image is being used in a negative way. It's about maintaining control over your work which is not an easy task on the net, but is worth doing if you're really serious about your stuff.

The internet is part of the real world. There are real people behind all of these cute little icons. Real people took the pics that end up here in the gallery. Real people can be impacted by things that happen on-line. The idea that the internet is some kind of other realm that is completely disconnected from everything else is false -- it's just as connected as everything else is, just in a different way. People create drama period, but maybe in this situation the ones that are creating it are the ones that are actually in the wrong -- you know, the ones using pics without permission?

If you don't make the attempt to protect the rights to your own work, then you won't have any. The idea that everything on-line is fair game needs to be discouraged. The best way to do that is to come out and say it's the wrong thing to do and ask to have your stuff taken down from the offending sites. As the owner of the image, you have every right to do that. Again, it's the people using other people's images inappropriately that run the risk of causing drama and souring everything. And if nobody has any rights to and control over their own work, then you lose a lot of incentive to share any kind of art via the web, which would be craptastic to say the least. As I said before, the whole 'people are going to do it anyway, so why cause drama by complaining' attitude only adds to the problem. You are only encouraging bad behavior.

As to the first post:
It would make me a little uncomfortable to see someone using one of my photos in their blog or website. I would rather them ask permission, so that I know how they intend to use it. How I would actually react in that situation would depend on how the photo was being used, but I don't condone using people's pics without asking first. It's just plain common sense (or should be) and the polite thing to do.

 

Satire is also covered under the fair use/parody/etc thingy.
However I really like the latter half of your comment.

If no money is being made, full credit is given, I honestly don't see what the big issue is or why people feel the need to make themselves appear as though they are more morally righteous for thinking so.
Seriously dudes, welcome to the internet.

 

The blog in question credits every single picture that they use. They link to DoA, Flickr, or any place they got the picture from.

Really? You're calling people's intelligence into this? That's a low blow over tiny pieces of data stored on the web that you chose to share. Some times it takes ages to get replies and permission to use people's art. Generally when one is running a blog which needs to be updated on a day to day/hour to hour basis they don't have enough time to ask every single person. There are 24 hours in a day. They're still crediting back, and it's not like they're putting their name all over it and being like "This was me I'm brilliant and own thousands of dolls". They aren't stupid, they're just people with lives who don't have the entire day to sit waiting for the photographer to grace them with a simple "Yes" or "No".

 

This reasoning sort of amuses me because it is so very off. Now, aside from some miffed doll owners, the owners of the blog probably won't get into too much real trouble. However, in general, if you are using other people's work without permission you are opening yourself up to problems, because they are the copyright holders not the blog owner. If the person is really that serious about their blog where having it come out late or not having enough pics is that big of an issue, then they should care enough to do things right. If they can't get the owner's permission, don't use that picture. It's that simple. Maybe they need to give themselves more time in between postings, have back up pics they can use instead, actually take some pics of their own to post, etc etc etc. I'm guessing these dolly blogs are just for fun and amusement, not for making a living (if they were for making a living, they really would have to be careful about where they got their images), and if they are just for fun the blog owner can set the schedule that works for them.

Like it or not, other people's art is just that. Other people's art. Expecting to get to do whatever one wants with other people's stuff just isn't how the world works. And before anybody says it again -- just because it happens doesn't make it right.

 

Well here's the deal, if Zest and what I've read is correct, Satire is protected under the Fair Use doctrine. The images used in these blogs are used for satirical purposes, which means, they are protected under fair use, and if they are protected, then these blogs are not required by law to get permission to use these photos.

Sure, it would be much more considerate if they did... but they don't have to unless they felt they had a moral obligation...

So we can just leave the blogs out of this. The only problems you can give them is to report an image you want removed... if they are using these photos in a way that is protected under fair use, then they are in the clear, and there's nothing you can do about it.

I don't think anyone here is trying to say that. No one is saying that it's okay or right... they are saying that it happens, and one had best be aware of that. It's like when I go out at night by myself... I could very well get kidnapped, attacked, stabbed, run over. Does that mean that what was done to me is right? Of course not... but it can happen, and I'm aware that it can happen... doesn't stop me any.

Also, I find it funny how far this thread has gone. It's hilarious how so many people have nothing better to do than assert their perceived moral superiorty.

 

It's my opinion. There's no such thing as an opinion being off.

And of course the blog owner isn't making money, but are the photographers losing money from having these pictures on the blog? If not then I don't see the point in getting upset about it. No one is getting hurt, and you're getting free publicity and positive publicity. They aren't putting your pictures up and telling the world how ugly they are! Heck some of these pictures are to the captions of "Wow I really hate *Company*" and they show the most amazing doll from that company just to make a point. Also, this isn't "the world" it's "the internet" and it tends to function on a different set of rules.

:3 This.

 

I was referring to the people who don't credit or ask with that bit you quoted. I said earlier in my post, credit without asking is passable for me, but I think asking is the best policy since it gets rid of any ambiguity on the issue.

 

The reason why it's "not like that on the internet" is because people say "Oh well, it's going to get stolen anyway." People don't do that in person because they know they will immediately face consequences for their actions. However, on the internet, people think otherwise because they can't be bothered to help the problem instead of ignoring/spreading it. If everybody ignored it in person, it would be exactly as you say the internet is.

The argument that "they shouldn't have posted it online" makes no sense. The internet is how many artists get discovered. Just because Website A credits that person doesn't make it OK. Website B could take the image, then C, and D, and somewhere along the line, everyone's seen it and the credit is lost. What if that image was part of a portfolio? That means that even if money hasn't been made yet, money WILL be lost because everyone's seen it; it's no longer "original", or "unique". Sure, they could just keep it on their harddrive and show it to potential customers or friends, but what if they share it online. You can ask them to remove it, but the image is already online FOR GOOD and no one acknowledges it as yours anymore.

To put it in perspective:
"Joe is an artist. He spend hours drawing and perfecting his images and keeps them in a book for archiving and example of his work. One day, someone sees his work and decides they like it, so they snap a picture, put it on their phone and text it to a buddy with "Look what Joe drew!" or something similar in the message. They show it to all their friends, and they show it to others and so on. One day, Joe realizes what his friend did, and asks him to stop. His friend apologizes and deletes the photo saying they thought it was OK. Problem solved, right? No. There's still who knows how many people with the photo of his drawing, texting it to other people. The credit on it is lost, and he can't track down all the people who have the image. Some people could even be claiming it as their own. He has the right to sue, but there's too many people and nobody really cares.

However, it's his fault for drawing it in a book someone would see in the first place."

To answer the OP's question, it would make me very uncomfortable. I purposely make my images un-downloadable on dA, watermark them, and post on my website and blog that my images are not for use by others, especially if it's of a photo taken in my own house or myself. These images belong to me, and aren't usually for millions to view of their own accord.

I wouldn't mind if they posted a link to my site saying "the picture is here", but if they stole the photo and put it on their site, even with credits, I can't control where my image will end up. I'm an aspiring photographer, and even if it's just a doll photo now, later on it won't be. Taking my image and putting it on your site is not under under Fair Use or Public Domain. Stealing my image infringes upon my rights to make a profit later on and is illegal. I don't care if they're complimenting my doll or not, if they want to show my photo to someone else, direct them to my site.

 

When I started my tumblr I knew going in to it that any photo I posted on it would get commented on and re-blogged and some times the things said about my work would be less than positive. But that was a risk I chose to take. When you post something on the internet it is almost like putting up a flyer on a busy street corner. It may get ripped off taken changed and end up in an entirely different form.

I have had my personal pictures posted on 4chan and other places to call me fat and ugly and to praise my costume work. And I have gotten jobs I would have never had from people seeing my work out there. So I have seen both sides of things and I have to say if I saw my dolls in a confession I did not agree with I would ask politely for the picture to be taken down. No histrionics, no angry how dare you posts just a simple question and follow ups if my request was not honored.

If you are a professional and you are going to sell you work you should keep it on a tight leash but I think that handing transgressions on your work with grace and not frothing at the mouth works better in the long run.

 

One of the earlier points I was trying to make is: copyright is not as simple as some people would like to make it out to be.

Just because you take a photo doesn't mean you own the rights to the content of that photo, or to reproduce the photo.

Just because it's on the internet doesn't mean anyone can use it.

HOWEVER. as has been bantered about, there are fair use exceptions to copyright law. Simply lifting a photo and putting it somewhere else is not protected. But as soon as that photo is TRANSFORMED- which could include captions on it to make a confession- then the copyright issue goes into a murky gray area. A gray area even the courts (and that's egotistically assuming you're in the US) haven't resolved yet.

I'd recommend checking out the Organization for Transformative Works site- here's some quotes from them "Copyright is intended to protect the creator's right to profit from her work for a period of time to encourage creative endeavor and the widespread sharing of knowledge. But this does not preclude the right of others to respond to the original work, either with critical commentary, parody, or, we believe, transformative works."

And
"Fair use favors uses that (1) are noncommercial and not sold for a profit; (2) are transformative, adding new meaning and messages to the original; (3) are limited, not copying the entirety of the original; and (4) do not substitute for the original work. None of these factors is absolutely necessary for fair use, but they all help, and we believe that fanworks like those in the archive easily qualify as fair uses based on all these factors."

Under definition 2, I'm pretty sure the confession blogs are protected as transformative works if they decided to fight tumblr or you over it. Pretty much, if they started cropping/only using part of images, they'd meet the four requirements for transformative works copyright.

I wouldn't normally go this far in a response, but something really bothers me about trying to silence opinions we disagree with (by getting blogs deleted, by using copyright claims) instead of learning to deal with them.