how uncomfortable would this make you?

I am not arguing for ones that don't fall under parody and satire, and I wasn't looking for anything all inclusive. I know what falls under fair use. If they are not under the protection of fair use, then I don't care if they drop off the face of the internet. But if it's protected by the law, I'm not going to sit idly by and let people stomp around acting like they can cause others grief because they feel their morals trumps everything and everyone.

Misunderstanding happen. I don't begrudge you.

 

... Are you kidding me? Victims? You're acting as if by having your picture borrowed you're being bludgeoned in the streets. Talk about taking your comparisons way to far. Is any one being hurt? Maybe emotionally but in my opinion that's just taking the whole thing way to far. This is something which is supposed to be fun and open various routes to everyone in the community as well as being able to comment against nasty things like "BBBs are so ugly".

If they don't care about Tumblr they shouldn't care what is on Tumblr.

Victim (from google): A person harmed, injured, or killed as a result of a crime, accident, or other event or action.

Are people dying from this? Are they harmed? Unable to go on with their daily lives? Is it a crime to take a picture and post it somewhere else providing full and due credit to every artist? Victims. Really. When you can so me blood then I'll believe you're victims.

And this whole "Well you borrowed my picture so now you're a thief and it's as bad as stealing someone's watch and never giving it back so yah go to jail" thing is just... Wow.

Why is stealing wrong? Because you're taking something without permission without the intention of returning it, with the intention of making a profit (be in monetarial or emotional) for yourself. This is not stealing! They are giving full credit, they are saying look at these people's art, they are saying have a different way of seeing things. The person who looks at the BBB picture and thinks "Wow that's an ugly BBB" is a closed minded fool and that person could have damn well stumbled upon your art any day and had the exact same reaction.

And this whole "omg they aren't giving credit" thing going on, this blog gives credit for every picture. Every picture has a link below it to the original creator. Heck I've gone back after thinking I needed something A, remembered that there was picture B, and gone to an artists Flickr because that picture was there. They're so evil, and I am stealing by using this art as reference for something. : | Jail for me. Off I go, right next to the guy who robbed a store at gun point.

You people are being absolutely ridiculous. If people were stealing your dolls? Sure, have a spazz. Coming in to your house and taking your things? Same deal, throw a fit I'll back you 100%. People sharing a picture, crediting you, linking back to you, that you chose to put online?

I quote the sharing song:
It's always more fun
To share with everyone
It's always more fun
To share with everyone
If you have two
Give one to your friend
If you have three
Give one to your friend and me

 

Many of the pictures are meant to be used in a satirical fashion. For example, a recent one was a photo of a dollshe Bermann (I think), and the confession was something along the lines of how ugly the person thought dollshe dolls were. The photo was meant to be used as a form of irony, and many of the photos used in unsavory confessions (which seem to be the ones people are having a problem with) are used in the same way, showing a beautiful doll which clearly refutes the "all X dolls are ugly."

People don't seem to have a problem with the happy, cute confessions, because those ones are promotion... conveniently, the negative confessions are where the theft takes place.

I'll say it again: there are much worse comparisons thrown around in this community. Just like "theft," people are so very eager to throw the word "victim" around as well. Laughable, isn't it, my dear?

 

Btw considering OP had none of her pictures shown, I don't think she really had a right to even start this thread. She was just trying to start drama. Rude much.

 

I'm one of those people whose pictures have been used in said websites. I actually like it: It generates more traffic towards my website (resource). Beside they're not making a penny out of them.

 

Actually, the thread was innocent enough. It was merely asking how comfortable people may be with the thought of their work being shown in other place (permission or not). Some may not be comfortable, some may not care, some may be happy and flattered that someone loved their work enough to want to show it.

The problem was not the OP; the problem is those who were so eager to start crying thief in order to stir up drama because they clearly have nothing productive to do despite being amazing, hard working artists that everyone wants to steal from... No offense to any and all hard working artists...unless you like to stir up drama...then shame on you. *finger shake*

BTW magicmage, it would be best not to give links anyways because due to all this shit-stirring, the blogs are getting a greater influx of anon hate-mail. In fact, one of them actually stated that they get more hate mail than actual requests to have an image removed... no surprise there. People around here seem to loooooove messing things up if those things are not playing by their rules, then they hide behind false, misguided morality to make themsleves look better and to demonize others.

 

I'm an artist, and I've had people ask me if they can use my images before. :O It was nice of them, sure, but mostly I don't give a damn so long as I'm credited. I like it even more if they let me know that they used my images. xD Like, I don't mind if they don't ask permission (again, so long as I'm credited), but if they shoot me an email/PM/whatever going, "hey! I used your image here, and I invite you to see what I did with it," kinda thing, I'd absolutely love it. Haha.

Yeah, more traffic is definitely a plus, and if I really don't like how my image is being used, I'd ask (nicely!) to have it removed. But for the most part, so long as they aren't stealing (and if they credited me, it's not stealing) or profiting from my work, I don't mind.

 

This is an unacceptable response for a thread on this forum. Although the Dolly Debate subforum is a place to encourage members to openly and in detail state their opinions and thoughts about possibly inflammatory subjects, dismissal of a member in this manner is not conducive to "debate". There is certainly nothing amiss with a member positing a debate topic with which she has had no personal involvement.

Further posting in this manner will continue to result in posts being removed.

 

@Ethra_VII & MagicMage: Wooooow... my whole big long post and that's what you guys latch on too. I won't apologize if my verbage wasn't up to your particular standards. Breathe, I think you're turning purple.

I thought I made some rather logical arguments. My point was that the owner of the photo should be able to choose where their art is displayed - if the blog owner is too lazy to say anything, then the photo owner's choice is taken away.

I agree that everyone has a right to voice their opinion, however, the blogs are displaying more than just opinions. It can't be that big of a hardship to ask someone for permission, especially since the BJD community is not huge and PM and email make communication fairly easy. I keep hearing that people should be flattered that their work is being shared... how can I be flattered if I don't know that people are sharing my work? Tell me to my face (more or less) that you like my work, instead of complimenting my behind my back.

 

The poster who stated that the mods of one of the aforementioned confession sites haven't participated in this drama was correct, though it is being brought to my attention that the post was flagged and removed as 'inflammatory'

So I'd like to take the time to say myself, as a mod of one of the confession sites, that we have not and are not taking part in this debate, and that we would prefer that the statements within this debate thread not be attributed to us in any manner. I see both insinuations of our character based on this thread, as well as others assuming that we have expressed some of the strongly-worded opinions in this thread, and we have not. That's all we'd like to say on this matter-- thanks everyone.

--"Admin Z"

 

Perhaps I'm a bit cynical, I like to sit back and enjoy popcorn with these threads. hehe. In any event I figured I'd bring a working art professional's opinion into this thread.

A situation like this happened to my husband. While randomly googling his name he had found his art was added to a gallery unbeknownst to him. Luckily they were not making profit of any kind and had linked back to his work. He was weary till he found this out then was happy for the traffic generated towards his art. No harm no fowl really, he said.

 

I'm not latching onto anything, and frankly, I'm not so into this that it's riling me up. Yes, you made logical arguments, most here have... And I keep stating that I agree that asking permission would make things easier, and would be much more considerate.

What I'm arguing against is the very obvious assertion that these bloggers should be labeled thieves, when even in they eyes of the law, they are not. Maybe you didn't say that... I'm not saying you did. But people here have, and that is something I just cannot stand for.

 

I think there are a few things to consider:

Does it hurt your feelings?
Is it legal?

I wouldn't mind if people blogged my pictures if they were giving credit and not claiming it as work for themselves. I've seen blogs that do nothing but post examples of things they like which would be flattering if they included my items, especially with a link back for free advertising.

Now, if it was a critique or negative, it might hurt my feelings, especially if it were a personal attack. Unfortunately, that's one of the dangers of putting yourself out there on the internet.

From a legal aspect, there is a lot of leeway on usage of copyright items for discussion, education, parody, etc. For instance, if I was posting a review of a movie or book I could include a picture of the movie poster, a screen shot, or the book cover. I could include small quotes. This is a better site about the legality of writing reviews: http://www.plagiarismtoday.com/2010/01/06/copyright-tips-for-review-sites/

Edit: If you're really looking for a legal discussion of fair use, this is a great start: http://fairuse.stanford.edu/Copyright_and_Fair_Use_Overview/chapter9/index.html

 

I've had this happen only once, I had made Kana (DZ Shoyo kitty) an outfit and took her to a new meetup with a lot of people I didn't know, I had poted a few pictures of her, and a few weeks later I say Kana as someone else's Icon, That would have normally made me happy to see someone else liked her enough to do that, but then I saw that they were getting some comments about her, and this girl flat out said that she made the dress, did her face up, everything .... Normally I'm pretty easy going, but I did her face up, it took me hours to get it the way I wanted, and her outfit, now that really set me off. I spent days looking for the right fabric, and quite a few more days Hand sewing the whole thing together. I asked her in a PM (so not to be a witch) to please stop telling everyone that she had done everything and she went off saying I had no right that she had done everything. So I did it the easy way, I posted it on the main page with pictures of Kana's box opening, pictures of me working on her face up, then many pictures of me working on her dress ( I made several pictures to show my mom how I did it, not knowing how much they would help me later on) I even showed them pictures at the doll meet up with me and my girl. She was the first girl doll that I had and I was very overproctive of her. After that I found out that she had done it to a lot more people, claiming she had this doll, and that doll, She actually owned only 1 doll, she never did a face-up, and the worst part is, she has no idea how to sew. I finally did get credit for everything, and thank god, anyone else that has used my pictures has been really nice. 99% of the time I don't care who uses my pictures, for me I'm just happy someone liked them enough to save and reuse them The only time I will as someone to take it down, is if they are claiming that My hard work is their own. If they happen to try that and I find it, Yeah bad things will be said >.<

 

@Ethra: I call it theft because the blogs don't strike me as being a "Fair Use" situation.

The example in the Wikpedia article on Fair Use, is actually a pretty good illustration. A guy did a bunch of art pieces parodying Barbie, Matel lost their case because the judge ruled that the artist was effectively making fun of Barbie, not just using her image in the art. Another guy lost his case because he included another artist's work but he was commenting on society in general, not the art.

I see the blogs as being more of the latter case. The comments are, more often than not, about the doll hobby in general, not the pictures themselves. The owner is just using whatever images suit them and they aren't transforming the image in any way, just slapping on some text in squirrelly fonts.

And, because someone else deigned to put words in my mouth... I never said image thieves should go to jail, nor did I imply that I thought it was a crime punishable by jail time. My point was that an image/data is equal in worth and importance to a tangible object. And in a case of theft, I am equally upset by both scenarios.

 

I think all of us can agree that when one's photo is used by someone else and *they* take credit for it, that isn't cool. I'm sure no one will be arguing against the fact that that is blatant stealing, and honestly pretty disgraceful.

Artists should fight against those who take art for the sake of taking credit for it. That is what puts the hard work of artists in jepordy.

What you are referring to is parody. These confessions are more along the lines of satire, which is still protected under fair use. Satire does not have to active make fun of the work being used. The work and a statement can be unrelated but used hand in hand to portray irony, poke fun, or as commentary. And those font's make it more fun to look at...otherwise it would be boring... and why should they exist of they're gonna be boring?

And I don't know who put those words in your mouth...but I know none of my posts even mentioned jail, so whoever they were, shame on them.

And I can understand that art theft would upset you, it upsets me too. You should see some of the arguments I've been in over it on some other blogs... But the thing is... everything seems to point to the blogs in question being well within their right to do what they are doing, as their use of the images is protected. You may call it theft... you can call it that all you want... but your opinion has no bearing on law. And if it turns out that I am wrong... well then my own opinions don't matter. No one's opinion matters in the eyes of the law.

 

If anyone's interested, there's a very in-depth explanation on what fair use is here: http://fairuse.stanford.edu/Copyright_and_Fair_Use_Overview/chapter9/index.html

 

Oh wow! That would have set me off too! lol
Yea it's always good to take pictures of yourself working on stuff or of your dolls in general cause you never know when you might need them!

 

@Ethra: I see your point, but only in regards to the submissions that actually are satire or parody. Most of the submissions, IMO, are not. A lot of times it's just a comment and a random doll that doesn't illustrate any sort of point related to what's written. (A couple that I just looked at were a poster complaining about how they thought some people in the hobby were heterophobic, with some red-headed doll, by himself, and another that talked about how the poster was afraid they'd get tired of the hobby, so they didn't always buy the dolls they wanted when they had the chance, with some poor 70cm with his legs up in an *ahem* embarrassing position. I don't see a direct correlation between image and text.)

(I would agree that the "BBB dolls are ugly" post could be considered satire, but it's probably too subtle. Not everyone is going to agree that that doll is beautiful.)

I'm not saying that none of what's posted falls under fair use, but I think a good chunk of what is, pushes the limits of what's legal/allowable. I would vote to shut most of these blogs down because of an established pattern of non-adherence.

(Also, artistic taste is a bit beside the point, but - on the one blog I troll - some of the owner's font choices make reading some of them rather difficult. A good text layout should be both aesthetically pleasing and easy to read.)

 

Personally I think as long as credit is given, and a link to the owner of the picture is given, I see no harm anyways. It's not the blogger's concern if someone doesn't get a message they are trying to convey, no matter how subtle or obvious.

And I am glad these blogs exist because they give people a place to unload about things they likely couldn't get out otherwise. I know I've made several confessions myself, and I'm glad I could get something bothering me off my chest, and not have anyone judge me for it directly (since no one knew it was me).

And I have no issue if people don't want their images on the blogs...but those blogs seem to be getting more hate mail from anons than actual requests for image removal. Obviously not many are too bothered with the issue, or at least the people that this concerns. Others just seem to be taking advantage of this thread and this issue in order to troll and stir up trouble. I think this should be left up to the people who find their images posted. Why shut something down because a few don't like it, when those few can solve their problem very easily with little or no drama involved?