Imagination? Or psychosis?

To be fair though, who's to say when someone needs help? Murky waters ahoy!

 

Not going to read the whole thread... really just responding to the first post. I have had a bad life to put it mildly... I ended up at the point of really being mad... like hatter mad... like unable to live mad... I pulled myself out of that slowly and have accomplished a HUGE amount... including raising 2 kids (not done yet) with love and compassion, becoming 2nd black in Shao-Lin and creating a huge spider shaped goth club at burning man... these are things I would NOT have ever been able to do if I had not blurred my reality a bit.... I started getting in to D&D and other RPGs (role playing games) ...I started game mastering... creating worlds and characters in my head. The world exists always... and I know its not real... but I have characters who I have watched age for the last 16 years in my mind... who have had whole lives of their own... and in that way they are soo real to me...

It's not all crazy... zen asks if the person dreaming they are a butterfly wakes to be a person again or is just a butterfly dreaming they are human. Our minds are sooo powerful.. and reality soo very very fragile. Think of the matrix... and many other movies to the like... perception is big... and the reason it's such a hot topic is challenging someones faith and perception is like asking a christian not to believe in god.

I have been healed by the love and escape my imaginary world has offered to me... the creative outlet and expression I have been able to live through my NPCs... For me dolls are the same way. If they offer comfort... compassion... someone to talk to.... then it becomes unimportant weather the soul exists there as an item... like your dolls wig or eyes... but weather it is perceived to be there. It would be a sad world if not for the Winnie the poohs and velveteen rabbits... and it is only through age that the delight of childhood becomes the delirium of growing up... hold on to your dreams and imagination. It is one of the few pure and untainted things we can carry through this world.

My Jasper is sleeping in the other room... that is comfort to me.. and that comfort is enough to give him a soul in my eyes. A ugly truth..? A beautiful lie..? I choose something else.

 

The person who might have the crazy gets to decided if they have the crazy or not? I don't think that would work as well as you think it would! If that's how we judged it, I think atleast two thirds of all mental health hosptials and facilites would have to close down atleast! Not that I din't think the personinquestion's opinion on it shouldn't count for anything, but to leave it up to them? Naw dude. Dude, naw.

FlashFact: If you think you're crazy, you're most likely not

 

gothspider - Word! I'm with you every step of the way. Without our imagination we are just pieces of organic matter, and what kind of life is that?

 

I'll second some of what gothspider is saying, characters you make like in DnD do have a tendancy to take on a life of their own

 

Odd question here, but I have to ask it anyway- I've seen several people on this forum state that the flat out don't care what people think of them in regards to their dolls, or just in general. Since that's the case, why would it be any different here. If I said "All people who think their dolls have souls and treat them like their real are crazy" (Which I'm not doing mind you), why would it matter if people already don't care what others think?

I know that if someone told me "Well, you believe in a set of rules from a big invisible man in the sky, so you're obviously crazy, I'd realize that it was their perception and just carry on with my day."

Just a thought. I'm not labling anyone crazy or anything. Just thinking.

 

Theres really nothing wrong with having a big imagination. But I understand what your saying and I agree that there is a line between taking your imaginary world into reality.

I myself have had personal problems with this when several of my friends and I became so serious about RPG that we thought that it was reality. It was a tough and emotional couple of years but we all snapped back to actual reality eventually.

I mean, if your a child and you have a imaginary friend I mean, thats okay. Children have big imaginations and its okay for kids to play and talk to imaginary friends but most get over it in a period of time.

If your a adult though and swear on your life that your dolls are talking to you and that your feeding them or stuff like that, thats too far but it can be helped if caught at the right time.

Don't get me wrong, somtimes I think that my dolls actually walk around my room when I'm sleeping or whispering to eachother but thats just the qualities all dolls have.

Dollfies just make people imagine characters and stories which is fine, but like I said above, it goes too far when people do actually think the dolls talking to them or somthing else.

 

BunnyKimber - I absolutely agree. My point was - and is - that we should think before we throw around medical diagnoses like psychosis. I doubt any of us is qualified to diagnose either ourselves or each other, and even if that was the case, this forum is hardly the venue.

As far as using current medical guidelines to judge who's crazy and who's sane, there was a time, quite recently, when homosexuals were considered mentally ill and were subjected to electric shock therapy as treatment. In the 70s in the Soviet Union dissidents were sent to mental institutions for disagreeing with the government, treated with Thorazine and all. I personally know some folks right here in the States who grew up in strict religious communities (all mainstream, no cults), who were subjected to psychiatric evaluation and condemned as mentally ill only because they dared to question authority.

One may hope that doesn't happen anymore. One may also hope that in time our understanding of human psyche develops to the point where we don't mock and condemn people for seeing the world differently. Perhaps people who truly see life in inanimate objects have an ability to perceive finer matter - who am I to call them crazy?

 

-----Removed-----

 

I own dolls and I *am* mentally unstable. However, dolls are dolls.

 

GothSpider said it perfectly. I was tormented as a child by my peers. I didn't have many friends and those who were, well, I've never been close to anyone. ANYONE. I am also an only child, so that meant no playmates. I created one. I still have him. I still talk to him, out loud, and answer AS him. In that world, I was popular. In reality, I knew I was alone. Yes I realize he's not real, but he is a part of me.

I've seriously tried to kill myself. But I held on to the hope the future would bring something better. In some ways it has. In some ways nothing has changed. So the dolls' worlds and the RP worlds are my escapes.

Yes, I know this will get me made fun of more on Den of Demons, but screw them. I honestly no longer care. The dolls are an escape for me, as are rps. Some characters are older than some of the posters on this site, as I've had them over 20 years.

So I'm with GothSpider.

 

So what you're saying is even worse now. If all 'crazy' people were the only ones able to decide if they need help, then how many would really? That's an even worse scenario than the one I thought you meant before.

 

Most people believe that they (themselves) have a soul or spirit of some kind. I think it would be arrogant to say that only human beings have souls and not things like pets or trees or rocks. There may also be conscious spirits that we cannot always see, but sometimes feel. We call them by many names: fairies, elementals, pixies, and such. We (humans) have also found thruought history that if we appease and please these spirits that things are generally good all around, leaving offerings and building fairy houses and tiny garden alters.

To me, my dolls house these Other Spirits. I get to know them, learn what their personalities are, and even their names. I don't think it's crazy, just sharing my existence in a spiritual way. I know they are made of plastic and resin, hooks and string, but I offer them as vessels to the little wandering spirits that many wish to stay and visit a while. But I don't believe that they are alive as physical beings. It's similar to people's care of graves or shirines. we set flowers before headstones as an offering to departed souls. In a cold and clincal way, what would lifeless collection of bones in the ground want with cut flowers? It's a matter of faith.

Other dolls which are character dolls are extensions of my own personality. Because I do put so much love into their creation, I feel that I give them a part of my soul. In that way, caring for them is a way of caring for myself and my own little spark.

I do understand the psychology behind projection and things, but I've always believed in entities beyond my perseption (I call them fairies for lack of a better term). I also understand that people see what they want to see and percieve things differently, otherwise we would all have the same opinion about everything! So I acknowlege that everything I just said could be based entirely in my own psyche, but then again it might not. And if that's the case, then don't try and prove it to me...

... Everyone needs a little magic in their world!

 

....I was thinking some more about this topic. I actually did a stop motion animation on this very subject several months ago!

On the psychosis side, whatever individual beliefs are, I think the important thing is that it doesn't interfere with daily life in the world outside your mind. I do believe my dolls have souls, but I also regaurd my cats as equal members of my family. I've held a steady full-time job managing a store (a metaphysical store, albeit) for 8 years and am a productive member of society with family, friends, and I go out all the time. If I began sitting alone in my bedroom talking to my dolls and shunning the world, then I think that would cross the line.

I don't actually talk to my dolls that much, but occassionally. I take them to work with me often, and my boss and co-worker greet them and talk to them as much as I do! Customers say hello and ask how they've been, or how they're doing if they are at home. And the one or two odd people will come in, see one of the boys sitting on the counter, and get creeped out. One guy actually refused to look Lucien in the eyes and kept saying to his girlfriend. "Nope, don't want to see him! Is he still looking at me?" If they were just hunks of plastic, why would so many people care?

Dang, this thread should have had a poll!

 

Okay, I have to respond to this statement, because I'm a bit afronted... I don't know if you were directing this towards my post at all, but either way, I feel I must say something about this particular sentence in your post.
I did say in my last post that I believe that only humans have a Soul. To me, a Soul is what it is described as in the Bible. My beliefs as a Christian and my knowledge of the bible (and my classes at the Christian college I attended) tell me that, when we die, our Souls separate from our dead body and go to either Heaven or Hell, and that animals do not have such a Soul. Don't get me wrong, I ADORE animals and it is sad for me to think that my cat Tiger, who is so alive and special to me, doesn't have a Soul (or, maybe I should say a Soul as defined in the bible; a human Soul). She has a beautiful life and I love her to pieces, but because of my beliefs, I can't claim that she has a (human) Soul.
Does this really make me arrogant?? I don't think I'm arrogant... in fact, I've had self-esteem problems all my life (due to harsh teasing from my peers as young as 2nd & 3rd grade). If anything, I'm likely to think that everyone else is better than me, not that I'm better than everyone else!
I know that not everyone shares my beliefs. Heck, not even all Christians believe exactly the same things I do. Beliefs vary and I base mine on the Bible. I understand that I may be alone here in my belief that only humans have a Soul, but please, please don't label me arrogant! That's as bad as calling me mentally unstable and insane! Sometimes I call myself crazy, but I usually mean my silly behavior with friends. I don't think I've ever been called arrogant in seriousness...

 

It isn't "arrogant" for anyone to politely stand by their own beliefs, whether those beliefs are that dolls have souls or that they don't have souls.

IMHO, what's really arrogant is to pronounce that anyone who has a differing opinion than you must be closed-minded, judgmental, or, well, arrogant. People can disagree with you without it making them horrible, mean people. And that goes for both sides of the debate!

 

I'm sorry, that wasn't directed at anyone in particular! Much appologies. I haven't read every single post, I skimmed some. I meant arrogant as a species. Um.... maybe... presumptuous is a better word? Sort of the way humans (again as a species) consider ourselves better than other forms of life because we are more intelligent with our tools and writing and nuclear weapons and such. I know, the Bible speaks of beasts of burden and that they were made to serve man. I've studied many religions of the world, not just Christianity, and there are so many different definitions and they have changed over the generations.

Trying to saty OT here... I know this isn't a theology discusion, but it's actually a perfect example for this Dolly Debate: You have your beliefs based on your own studies, and I have mine based on my own. But I don't think you're crazy, and you probably don't think that I am either (at lease I hope not), and we're both rational normal people. There's imagination and there's insanity, and I think that Faith is the place in between.