Is it OK to... ? (Approval or permission-seeking and the community.)

I think this is a good idea, as these conversations really aren't debates, just opinion sharing. And if people really feel like the scores of people voicing their opinion drown out the minority, this solves that problem nicely.

 

Maybe, but the issue that I see with a lot of those "Is it wrong/Is it okay" threads is that by phrasing them as absolute Yes/No questions they're essentially set up to have that chorus of agreement just by virtue of there being very few absolutes in life. If more of the debate/discussion questions were matters of degree (and there are some, of course) I'd think we'd see less of the chorus and more diversity of opinion. Maybe.

 

Haha. Maybe because we are lazily browsing DOA looking for something to comment on just to feel engaged. Like I am doing now. I have nothing mind blowing to say yet, I am adding to this thread

But really, who knows exactly why we say things like "I agree with what everyone else is saying and now I will say the same thing but in a different way" Maybe it is for the purpose of reinforcing other posts so that the OP can count up the posts and feel convinced that "X" is ok? Like one big community nod. If only one person validated it would feel like we left the OP still questioning themselves? Like we all turned our eyes away when they asked the question. That's just my guess!

I also believe that saying "Do whatever you want" is a very valid opinion. I really do believe in creative freedom and I will happily reinforce that idea whenever I can.

 

... A sort of Trend Of The Week, or Popularity Contest Du Jour. If that could take place of the semiannual "do you think it's OK to have gay dolls?" or "is it ethical to own two LE dolls?" or "why do dolls have penises?" threads we keep getting around here, I'm all for it. I do wish for a Newbie Debate subforum, where these tired old non-issues will only be seen by those who think it's a fresh topic, so the rest of us don't have to keep hearing them over & over & over again.

In fact, maybe there should be a whole "Is This OK With Everybody?" or "I Need Validation!" subforum in Newbieland, for those who haven't yet figured out that everything is OK. ^^ It could just be a list of items (skirtbois, lolita, hybrids, Sharpie faceups, multiple LEs) with a Y/N poll vote. Just hearing a few shoutbacks is often all it takes to settle somebody's insecurities while they're testing the community waters. If someone really needs other people to make the call of "hot or not" for them, then, well, power to you getting it from whatever sources you need.

My own rule is, if it's OK by the DOA forum rules = I will post it here. If it's not within these rules, then I post it somewhere that has different rules. As long as my content is something that abides by the rules, I utterly don't care if some viewer doesn't think it's OK. This is why "do what you want" isn't a non-opinion. I am of the extremely firm opinion that everyone should just shut up & go play with their dolls in whatever way makes them happy, without worrying about what a pack of strangers on the internet might think. We may be a Virtual Community, yes, but what it really boils down to is a pack of strangers on the internet.

 

I feel like sometimes (namely in my case) I get really fired up by a topic, but don't really have much to say when it comes to posting because it's generally been covered already by those of us blessed with being able to communicate more easily. So I basically just say "Yeah!" because I'd love to contribute, just to show how excited I was by whatever discussion is taking place, and to acknowledge that those opinions who came before me were the same as mine... I don't think there's much wrong with it because really, does anyone read all 35 pages of a thread like that?

 

The reason I see that people keep asking for approval is because there can be a negative backlash to almost anything you do. Even this thread suggests that it's wrong to use sharpies on a doll. If it's the person's doll and they want to use sharpies they can, one can inform what the consquences of such actions are, but doing so is not 'wrong' (they decide if the consquences are worth it or not/acceptable), but people will tell them how wrong it is to do so, how dare they damage their doll, they tell them what they should or shouldn't do with their doll, etc... And then if you don't follow the advice your yelled at even more. (Shrugs)

 

I think the whole attitude is tied into two things (at least, evaluating my own thoughts....)

-The reaction to the whole doll hobby by non-hobbyists as "creepy", "not age-appropriate", "a waste of money", etc. leads people to develop an apologetic attitude. A lot of hobbyists end up this way. Societal standards are odd like that sometimes. Or at least I've only started to not adamantly apologize for liking what I like.

-The reputation the ABJD community has as being elitist. To my great relief, this hasn't been true, but I think that some very loud people have set an obnoxious standard (as it is with many, many, many things, the idiots are usually remembered far more than the normal people). Additionally, some people may get this idea because the dolls are so expensive.

 

Jennynemesis - I agree totally.

I have to admit, when I see a thread that starts with "Is it 'okay' to..." or "Is it 'wrong' to..." I almost always roll my eyes and think "If you have to put "OK" or "wrong" in quotes, then you already know the answer. And why does anyone care?"

I think sometimes it is just feeling out the norms, seeing what people get irritated by and passionate about. I think sometimes it is a search for validation. I think for some of the younger posters it may really be an age thing as well, the way kids will sometimes ask their parents "Can I do ________?" in a way that is not so much asking for permission as it is asking without saying "Is this thing I'm about to do stupid or dangerous or rude and I just don't realize it?" - a way to learn about things and feel out consequences without having to ask about them directly. And framing them as "Is it 'OK' to..." also makes it impersonal and hypothetical, so the "OMG. No." responses are less stinging than if they were directed at something the poster said they were planning to do themselves.

 

This, so much for me to.

I haven't been here that long but even since joining I've seen quite a few of the "Is it okay to..." threads, and my attitude is generally do whatever you want, it's your doll, and at the end of the day you're the one who needs to be happy/live with it.

 

Where do you feel the question itself comes from?* Is it a desire to be accepted by one's peers? To find out what might shock them? Insecurity with one's own wishes or choices and/or a need for reassurance?
I think people ask DoA members if it's ok to do something so that they don't 'offend' a lot of owners. I guess they are looking to make sure they won't be shunned by their group if they push some kind of envelope. So it's both a need for reassurance, as well as keeping the waters as calm as possible.

Is there anything like this that you have wondered about personally?
Oh yeah. But I've never thought to ask anyone if it was OK to do; it was more about asking if anyone has ever done something (in the Picture Request section, for example) and to see how it looked. Most of what I thought about was just a thought, and I never actually intended to do it - but it was good to know someone had and the results looked at least ok.

Do you personally go with the "to each his own, it's your doll, do what you want with it" theory? If so, are there any exceptions to that?
A lot of what I see in the 'Is it OK to...?' threads, I ask myself why this person is asking the question. There have been so many of them, and everyone has answered "to each his own..." or something along those lines, so I never bother to put in my two cents because my two cents would be identical to everyone else's.

I wouldn't get mad at someone for asking, but it does irk me when another one pops up. It's just another thread that I don't want to post in because 6 other people have said "to each his own..." in some form. I've come to a point where I think they're a waste of space on DoA because everyone knows the answer already. And even if something does kind of make me say "No, I think it's bad because..." I'm kind of afraid to say so - partly because I would rather not have any evidence that I'm one of those "elitists" who doesn't want to put her doll in sock dresses, for example. I just don't want someone to take my thought of "I think it's a little tacky" as some kind of battle cry, and I also worry that my reason to not like something will make them paranoid and think that I'll somehow hate them forever, bully them on DoA, or make their life a living hell because I disagreed. I try to go by the saying "If you don't have anything nice to say...", but I believe it doesn't apply in opinion posts. Saying that I don't like something is my opinion, and if we were always positive, we'd do ourselves a disservice. But when it comes to gallery posts, and things like that, if I don't agree with what's being shown or portrayed, I simply just don't look.

And sure, there are things I wouldn't do like cross dress my doll, or heavily mod it, but as long as a person isn't going to take my doll from my hands and do things to it against my will or something, I couldn't care less. The mod may not look good, or I may roll my eyes at something I consider cliche, but I'm not going to say "You should not have this doll because you did X." It's petty and shallow and would make me look like an "elitist" (or at least a major doll snob). We're a group of people who collect dolls, so we're not too high on the social food chain anyway.

I worry that someone's going to be kind of annoyed, and be a little snarky about me asking something that has been asked already (but I didn't see it for some reason) - that did happen to me once. And I also don't want the mods to get upset because this is one more post they have to do something with. Plus, if I say that I hadn't seen something like the thread I'm posting, it tells them that it was an honest mistake, and I'm not posting without puting any effort to search first - and that I'm not going to be bitter or rude if they have to delete my thread. Still, I may be a little sad if it happens (or starts to happen too frequently), but I just have to tell myself that they're doing a service to make the forum better, and that I have to do a better job next time.

 

This is a really interesting idea, although from my observations as an educator I'd say that it is happening at an earlier and earlier age, as art, music, even science (which does involve some creativity, too!), are shoved out the window to buy a little more time to "get ready for the tests."

Now, (cracks whip!) go and be creative!

 

Where do you feel the question itself comes from?* Is it a desire to be accepted by one's peers? To find out what might shock them? Insecurity with one's own wishes or choices and/or a need for reassurance?
I think it mostly comes from the need to be accepted in a community by people who have a similar, unusual taste or collection. As has already been stated. I think it's also a way to find what the extremes of that community are - to know how to do what you want but still fit in. Humans are social creatures that thrive in communities that accept them, and fail in communities that don't.

Is there anything like this that you have wondered about personally?
Not really. As someone who has always had a bit of a devil-may-care attitude to what other people think of them, I've always just done my own thing, damn the consequences. But the reverse side has also been true - I've always accepted that people will have a different view to me on at least one thing, and it's not my place to critisise(sp? That one always gets me.) them for having a different opinion. I think this is the main reason why that even though I am 'the odd one' I've always been accepted for who and what I am by the people I care about - because they know I will accept them in turn.

Do you personally go with the "to each his own, it's your doll, do what you want with it" theory? If so, are there any exceptions to that?
As stated above, I'm of the firm belief that 'what's good for gander is good for goose.' So if I want to do my own thing, why should I prevent anyone else from doing theirs? So yeah. I'm definetely in the 'to each his/her own party.'

The only exception I have to this rule is the following: I am against people that discriminate because of a certan factor that their doll has that another doll doesn't, or vice-versa. I'm accepting of everything except people being unaccepting, basically. I was brought up to be incredibly open-minded, and my friendship group in my teens just confirmed this openminded view, so I get angry when people are close-minded about things I deem frivolous.

If someone discriminates against a doll or owner that has a certain element (Stylistic or 'character'-based) then I'm going to go to town on the person who is doing the discriminating.

 

Where do you feel the question itself comes from?
I think it that in the society we have today, everyone is pressured to follow what is considered the 'norm' in order to be accepted. I think for younger people especially this is quite a big problem. When I see a question like that I think that it is perhaps a young person that is fairly new to the hobby and wants to make sure they aren't committing a dolly faux pas. But perhaps occassionally, people just want to start a topic to get involved more with the community, and find that to be a subject that gets most people answering. I believe there is more than one reason behind it.

Is there anything like this that you have wondered about personally?
No, not really. I learned early that following the standards set by other people is a waste of time, probably why I'm involved with such creative hobbies - there's much more freedom and acceptence in being yourself. Aside from geniuine concerns like: 'Is it OK to put dolls in water' because I've seen it done in pictures but I feel uncomfortable attempting it myself, I don't worry about what other people prefer.

Do you personally go with the "to each his own, it's your doll, do what you want with it" theory? If so, are there any exceptions to that? (Beyond the things noted below, or things that are outright illegal.)
I agree with that theory, in this hobby especially. It's too expensive to buy a doll and then do what you think you should do with it rather than what you actually want to do. It would take all the enjoyment out of it and is frankly, a waste of time. Aside from things that are illegal, absolutely no limits. If they want to buy a doll, set fire to it, carve chunks out of it and then smother it in paint then fine. At the end of the day, once I've paid for a doll it's mine and I'll do what I find fun with it. It's what the hobby is all about.

 

I think a lot of it stems from the youth of the majority of forum members; most DoA members are in the 15-25 age bracket, from personal observation, and that age group tends to be far more concerned with "fitting in" due to various self-esteem issues on the whole. BJD owners are already in a minority anyway, so it becomes far more important for them to fit in with the rest of the crowd. "Is it OK to..." threads are their way of testing the waters and making sure that whatever they propose doing isn't going to result in ostracism from the crowd.

I very rarely see such posts from older members, likely because we tend to be more laid back and experience has taught us to be more secure about ourselves and less concerned about the opinions of others - our ownership of BJDs is proof of that. We'll take interest in such posts when it comes to factual information, such as the "Is it OK to use Sharpies for face-ups?"-style requests, simply because it's something we're concerned about ourselves and we don't want to risk damaging our dolls - not because we particularly care about others' opinions on our particular aesthetic choices.

I don't think I've ever posted an "Is it OK to" thread, but then again I've been on DoA for over 5 years now and I honestly can't remember every single post I've ever made! I think it unlikely though, as I've always done my research carefully when it comes to practical things regarding doll ownership, modding and face-ups - and when it comes to anything else, as far as I'm concerned if it meets with what's acceptable according to the Forum rules, then that's all that really matters.

 

Well isn't this thread kind of that to?
You asked if how it come that people feel this need that they need to ask about how other people feel.

I really gives a dime for "why are you crossdressing your doll", "why is you doll gay", "how do you feel about hermaphrodite", because All my years on the internet, 7, have taught me that theese thread will have the obvious answear "Because I want to", and after about three pages everyone will burst in and start talking about gender roles. Always.

Where do you feel the question itself comes from?* Is it a desire to be accepted by one's peers? To find out what might shock them? Insecurity with one's own wishes or choices and/or a need for reassurance?
I don't know, but when it's like crossdressing/gay topics, the OP always seems to be very negative about the subject. Like "why do you put your masculine dolls in dresses, don't you think they feel humiliated.".

Is there anything like this that you have wondered about personally?
No actually.

Do you personally go with the "to each his own, it's your doll, do what you want with it" theory? If so, are there any exceptions to that?
Yeah. I wouldn't care if someone even used acetone on the doll. I don't care about others doll, I do not need to see them or comment on them or be near them. For example, I don't like dolls with more than two eyes, nor am I very fond of lesbian couples (even though there are so few! I whished it was more, even though I don't like them) I just don't click on the thread. I will not be offended: "What the heck have she done to her doll? Thats the wierdest shit... oh no way, is that a modded LE? OMG FEMALE DOG HOW COULD SHE?"

Edit: of course I mean lesbian doll couples. I don't now, maybe I am insecure in my own sexuality or something.

 

I guess I was a bit unclear.
First of all I want to make clear that I think what OP means with a "is it okay"-thread is where you ask a debate question, not if you want to know if you can use sharpie pens as faceup. So I will going from this point in my analyzing. (that was so not spelled right)


For example, if I would create a thread like "Why do you crossdress your male doll?", I want a respone. I want to hear what other people think and do and why they do it.
This thread does the same thing. This thread asks a question (in this case "why do people question?") and OP wants a response, wants to hear why other people thinks and why.
So the question is a little bit diffrent, but in the end the OP of this thread and the creator of the "Why do you crossdress your male doll?" wants the same thing.

Plus. Both of theese to thread will probably go on forever. And in about 20 pages people who haven't read the whole thread will comment and there will be a continious loop.
The people in this thread will be annoyed at the other and vice versa. (It's been said numerous times that the ones who start "is it okay"-threads are new to the hobby, and people in this thread seems to be atleast 1-2 years/own a couple of dolls.)

Hope it made some kind of sense... it's 2 am here so mah brain is not tops.
But please correct me if I am wrong. I love to talk. Alot.

 

surreality did start the thread? This thread and the ones she is asking about are not the same thing? Yes, they might both be looking for answers but not the same types of answers. See what I mean? This thread is simply speculating over why people would ask "is it ok?"

 

I'm wondering if some of these threads are just phrased poorly? Perhaps instead of "is it OK to cross dress my doll" it should be "how do you feel when you see a cross dressing doll" or "would you ever cross dress your dolls".