Is it okay to mod a rare head?

@ Malaryush: although I get where you're coming from, and it's kind of creepy to think about someone keeping an eye on the rare head I have (so to speak), most of the hobbies you mentioned are nothing like this one. BJD's are made by their creators to be customized. They are made to fit the owner's taste, unlike things like stamps. Modding is not destroying, it's making it even better for yourself.
Chibihaku put it perfectly in my eyes. It's odd someone would give themselves false hope and somehow think that a certain person is going to sell that doll. Even though this hobby tends to revolve around selling and buying, the chances of someone selling a doll is pretty slim.
I understand that when someone does something to an item that is not made for customizing, can be a bit annoying, although it's still none of anyone's business but the owners, but in this hobby, where it's all about customizing and making the doll your very own, I just don't understand it.

 

I don't really care whether or not you mod or change a rare mod...but, why ruin something and its value? People are just slimming down the chances of someone getting the doll they want by screwing up the only copies of them with mods. And i don't mean everyone is screwing them up. I've seen beautiful mods.

 

Oh, I agree, the hobby is different and customization is part of it, unlike those other collecting hobbies. However, Chibihaku's statement seemed to imply that it was something both odd and particular to this hobby that collectors might take an interest in another collector's possession. My point was that such interest or hope is neither particularly unusual nor specific to this hobby.

I also find the notion that "the doll will absolutely never come up for sale, so give up and don't think about it," just as presumptuous as the hypothetical collector who truly believes that they'll be buying that doll some day. Very slim chance - yes. Absolutely no chance - not necessarily.

Although I've never been in that position, I suppose I just don't find it all that difficult to empathize with someone who might feel that their chance at getting their dream doll just went from "very tiny" to "zero." I guess YMMV. Obviously, this doesn't give that person any right to dictate what the actual owner does with their property, but I don't see what harm they would be doing in quietly hoping for something, or being personally disappointed.

Particularly as the original poster specifically pointed out that s/he wasn't asking about limited editions which are still relatively plentiful, but for something very limited: "...there are only say 3 others in known existence." To me, this sounds more like the territory of very rare full sets, art dolls, or very old items, where it would make more sense that the few in existence would capture more attention than, say, some random owner's Soom MD from last year. In the latter case, I could see how it would be more odd for someone to be keeping an eye on a particular doll out of dozens, but less unusual that someone might be keeping an eye on the only one they've ever heard of/seen.

 

I personally wouldn't because I know I would destroy it probably xD But if people are really good at moding and know exactly how to do exactly what they want then go for it :3

 

Malaryush: Sorry for my bad wording, I didn't mean that it was particular to this hobby. I'm aware that it's in other hobbies too. Like Snow said, however, it still is a strange belief to be held in a hobby about customisation. I can understand the idea of hoping for that dream doll to come along, but at the same time I also feel the need to point out that if a doll owner has bought a doll to modify it, chances are that they've thought long and hard about the decision and have decided that that is the doll they need to modify to get what they want. This indicates they no longer care about potential resale value and have thus decided that they are not going to sell the doll.

The doll could then sit on a shelf for months on end and not be sold - not even have the potential to possibly be sold. Why is it that even if the owner is never going to sell the doll because they have decided to modify it will other owners hold out hope until the dremel touches resin? It seems like an exercise in false hope and disappointment to me.

To be honest, I'd much rather be unexpectedly surprised if something I wanted came up on the marketplace, rather than constantly disappointed that it didn't.

 

Chibihaku - Ah, no problem. Sorry for my misreading as well, then. :3

"Why is it that even if the owner is never going to sell the doll because they have decided to modify it will other owners hold out hope until the dremel touches resin?"

As to that point, I would assume because the person holding out hope probably wouldn't know that the current owner bought it for that purpose? It may be a fine distinction, but unless the owner loudly announces from the moment they buy an incredibly rare doll that they're doing so for the purpose of modifying it, I cannot imagine why the other person would be expecting it.

Also, for the sake of argument, I've seen quite a few dolls on the MP show up with the explanation that the seller bought it with the intention of doing a mod, but never had the time and ended up deciding to sell. It certainly happens. Some people might just be really optimistic about their chances? XD

As for the rest, I don't disagree. ^^; Personally, I wouldn't want to spend my time hoping and praying that somebody's going to sell me some incredibly rare doll. Heck, I tend to give up on regular limited editions that are already sold out, figuring I'm not going to hunt around the marketplace when I can just wait until a company releases something new that I'll like just as much. But that doesn't mean I can't understand where other people might be coming from, if they've had the bad luck to fall in love with something that is very difficult to come by.

 

If you bought it and own it, you should do whatever you want with it. So no, it wouldn't make me mad at all.

People who would be mad about this are jealous, or they feel "entitled" somehow because that want to buy one in the future and this makes it both less available and potentially drives up the price of the unaltered ones in existence... being mad about it is a little bit immature if you ask me.

Also, if I had a rare doll, and I saw someone mod the same doll, I would be happy because it means my doll just became even more rare. lol

 

it's cute allright! but it has nothing of the original feature Afi had. even the ears shapes have been changed. so when I see it my my first thought is "why didn't you just get a regular head and give it all those features? it would barely have been more work."
so I understand what malaryush is saying. there is now one less Afi on earth. one less chance to ever buy one. if every owner modded their rare head thinking "there's plenty more!" then at some point... no, there wouldn't be plenty more
now am I mad at the person who modded the afi? of course not! she did pay for it and she did a great job on it! ^_^ even if she didn't mod it, she could've keepen it forever, in which case, no other owner would've been able to enjoy this Afi. BUT again with what Malaryush said, when they still intact, you can keep hope

 

In the case of such extreme rarity I would hope the person would be able to find another doll to create the exact features they are looking for. I am fairly certain no matter how talented, they would be decreasing the value of the doll. Even if they hope it will travel for centuries down through their family, which is to say it is their property, BUT...

I have a sense of community with the dolls and their owners. ^^ Maybe because it is the first time I have ever felt like all of my quirks, and my love of imagination is understood and freely accepted. This creates a desire in me to think of "our" best interest. Honestly, I get as much joy out of marveling over the photography of dolls here as if I owned them too. The survival of such rare and loved dolls-- as they were first created, would be part of what makes an "US" out of thousands of wildly ranging bjd lovers. I think most everyone would know about such dolls and feel a connection to them, and to each other because we have the same value system.

Someone who doesn't get the magical parallel universe might even just toss the doll in a yard sale pile. LET ME AT it...haaaa

For us, it would be like painting a "better" smile on the original Mona Lisa that Leon carried around with him -- you know, Leon-ardo da Vinci...? Oh, too familiar of me to call him Leon? Maybe ^^it isn't that extreme, but those kinds of feelings on a smaller scale would be sure to be felt by some.

Not many dolls would attain this kind of reverence in our lifetimes so I don't think very many people [we would know of] will ever be in a position to worry about it. What is in the world now hasn't reached that kind of significance to us as a species.

However, if someone had used that flop of an artist, Vincent's "used" canvases with those crazy circular scribblings, say to polish their horse drawn buggies...the world would have been a little poorer for it.

What will the future bring?
Right now though, even limited dolls don't seem to be guaranteed to be limited. Just limited for how many are made for THAT month. Great way of keeping the stakes up and our enthusiasm high. I like to feel that way myself.

I wrote this without reading first what others have said. It will be interesting for me to see how my thoughts might change after taking in the perspectives of other people.

 

This goes towards a "who is the most worthy owner" system. If someone buys a limited doll and never posts pictures of it online and never takes it to a meet up so maybe a handful of friends will ever get to see that doll, this owner is a bad doll owner towards the community and needs to sell it to someone who will 1) never mod it, 2) take lots of pictures and post those online and 3) promise to sell it to a worthier owner when they can no longer let the community enjoy the doll from a distance a the predetermined level.
That's not what you bought when you paid hundreds of dollars for your LE doll. You bought the doll with your own money for your own enjoyment. The co-ownership mentality is annoying.

 

If you own the doll,
you have the rights to mod said doll! c:

 

Of course you have the right to do any thing you want with something you have paid for. Its just a question of sensibility - value for the artistic integrity of a limited item. Would you modify the mona lisa I wonder? I think that you should modify a non limited item instead. Just my opinion. Allow someone else the pleasure of custodianship of the limited item.

 

There is only one Mona Lisa.
These dolls are made for customization and the sculpters are very much aware of that. Why not make use of something when it's created for that purpose?

 

Original Mona Lisa... Limited Edition Toy... not really seeing a parallel here. Sorry.

For the record, I actually have a print of the Mona Lisa on which I have photoshopped in a 'Have a Nice Day' Yellow smiley face for her face. I had it printed and mounted professionally, and it sits on the wall of my room. It often gets reactions varying from polite horror through to tears of hilarity. It's my wacky sense of humor coupled with my complete lack of respect and it damages no-one.

Likewise, if I was to dye my Soom Epidos Centaur a vivid, horrifying shade of neon pink (I wouldn't, because pink is bloody awful, but I'm now strongly considering royal blue or black...) it would be my perogative to do so. I'm not damaging the original sculpt, it's my property and it would be my sense of humor displaying it's quirky self. It. Hurts. No. One.

Comparing the most famous work of art from the (arguably) greatest mind that ever existed to a toy is so mind-bogglingly baffling to me that it hurts a little. Comparing that same toy to a nice copy/print of a famous work... that's a little more understandable, and as I have no qualms whatsoever about modifying a print of the Mona Lisa (See, smiley face) why should I feel any different about a toy?

 

If you bought the Mona Lisa and own it you would have the right to cut it up to pieces, if it weren't for the fact that the Mona Lisa is part of cultural history and has an intrinsic value with regards to the concept of human culture and art history. A limited doll head does not have that. You can’t compare apples with pears.
Limited doll heads are more like the latest edition iPhone that you managed to get and all those other people who want one have to wait weeks until it’s restocked. You can flush your iPhone through the toilet regardless of how many people want it and how they would treasure it if it was theirs. You paid for it. It’s yours.

 

The place where this logic fails can be summed up in one quoted word: "custodianship". We are not custodians of dolls. We are their owners.

Custodian and owner do not mean remotely the same thing.

 

Sod that. My doll is mine. I did not pay over eight hundred dollars for my LE10 Lawrence Owen to be its custodian. I am its owner, as any other person who purchases a limited doll is. We do not share ownership of dolls with the rest of the community, and we are not simply caring for them until they inevitably move on to another owner. (Though, you know, if we are starting to claim co-ownership or community property, can I borrow someone's Scarface Cecile for a week or two? XD) I'm getting thoroughly sick of this attitude of any given doll (especially a limited edition) belonging to the community at large, especially since the ones who are most vocal about the owners of said dolls considering the community's feeeelings before breathing too hard on the thing are the ones who'd most likely pitch a fit if someone else wanted them to do the same with one of their own (non-limited) dolls. If someone wishes to own an unmodified version of a limited doll and is so terribly concerned with preserving the integrity of the limited, they can find someone else who is selling an intact doll from that edition and purchase it.

The Mona Lisa is a one-off piece of original art, while a doll, even a limited one, is a COPY of an original piece. It is not some sacred piece of art which must never ever be modified lest the dolly gods smite the modifier for hir blasphemy. A piece such as the Mona Lisa, or the Scream, or one of Degas' sculptures is a culturally and historically significant item which has value beyond the monetary or aesthetic, which more or less behooves us as a global community to keep them intact. A doll? Not so much. You could argue that a person who purchases a Monet or Munch or Picasso is only the custodian of the piece, but you cannot argue the same for a doll, even a limited one.

Modifying the Mona Lisa results in no more Mona. It's gone, or at least the original, undamaged piece is. Modifying a doll results in one less pristine COPY of that doll. Modifying a limited doll is akin to modifying a high-quality small-run print of the Mona Lisa, not the original. The only equivalent to modifying the original Mona Lisa is modifying the original master sculpt of a given doll. In both cases, you would be changing/damaging/losing the original piece of art, not a copy designed for distribution. Were I to wipe the faceup of my Lawrence Owen or carve him up to gore mod his entire body, it would have no impact upon the master mold, or any of the other FN Lawrences out there, or any of the other standard or limited Lawrences in existence. If I chose to sand off my tan Chubby Demon's horns or dye him rainbow colours, it would not affect any other owner in any way. A person owning a limited doll is under no obligation to keep it intact, nor to pass it on to someone else who will appreciate it "more" or "properly" and never ever even contemplate modifying it. IF they wish to do so, they may. If not, it is unfair to tell them what they "should" do with their own property.

 

Though this may be a bit too tangential, why on earth does everyone always pick the Mona Lisa as an example for these things? -insert confused head-tilt here-

It just doesn't compare to something like this to the extent that it just does not compute any longer and it becomes histrionic hilarity. It's such an overblown example it's like the artsy-collector equivalent of invoking Godwin's Law.

 

Ka-ching! This. This this this this THIS SO MUCH THIS. If I purchase a doll, it is my doll. I do not give a flying purple rat's ass if it's your average run of the mill Shiwoo or an original 77 Bermann. It's mine, and the only person who has any right to dictate what I can and cannot do to it is myself. Mind you, I wouldn't mod it...but that has far more to do with my absolute lack of skill in such areas than with desires. (That's what friends with mad skillz are for. )If I wanted to mod elf ears onto that Bermann you bet your sweet ass I would. I didn't buy my dolls to somehow keep them pristine for someone else. Crikey, could you get more entitled?

And that is why this thought process drives me up the wall:

(emphasis mine)

I'd love to know who this 'us' is that you're referring to, because if you're referring to DoA as a whole then you are wildly off the mark. DoA has tens of thousands of members, and we all approach the hobby differently -- which means, by way of deduction, that there is no way we all have 'the same value system'. Read the debate threads and it's reeeeeeeeally obvious that we don't. There is no 'our best interests' because your best interests are not the same as mine which are not the same as someone else's. So thus.

Honestly, I wish people would stop posting topics that are all about "Is it WRONG to..." or "Is it OKAY to..." like these dolls are community property. These are dolls. Why is ANYTHING wrong when it comes to the way we treat the items themselves? Nothing is wrong provided it's not illegal. Morality has no place in a hobby of a materialistic nature.

*mops up* Sorry, guys. This is the one behavioral tendency that sets me off like nothing else and gets me all ornery.

surreality -- So does that make it Da Vinci's Law? In any given discussion about art, the longer the discussion goes on, the greater the chance someone will invoke the Mona Lisa?

ETA: Wow, guys, sorry for the wall-o-TL;DR. I can't say ANYTHING concisely, I don't think.

 

Tez - What is this concept of conciseness you speak of? I have not heard of it before. =)

I agree completely with all of the points you've made, as dolls are not community property as much as certain people would like them to be.

(Now time for my TL;DR word vomit)

The hobby we have is an individual hobby. We share our pursuits and creative inspiration with the 'doll community' by displaying the results of that individual hobby. This is why I find the sense of 'community property' both understandable and completely baffling.

As much as I would love to own a few of the OOAK dolls on this site that I am madly in love with, I know that I won't. They already have an owner who has been nice enough to share their creative process and photos of it's conclusion with the community. Just because they've shared photos or commentary or comparisons does not automatically make the doll belong to the community. All it means is that they've been nice enough to say "Hey, look what I've done! This is how I did it, if you want to try yourself!"

In short, they've been kind enough to share their doll with the community through photos and explanations. They did not have to do this. There is no contract that they signed which said 'I have to post 14 photos of my LE a month otherwise my owner privelleges will be revoked.' The doll is completely and utterly theirs, with the only string attatched being that they can't claim the base sculpt as their own artistic work.

I think the very act of sharing photographs and advice is what brings about a 'sense of entitlement.' People forget that the owner didn't have to do that and that it was nice of them. They therefore expect more from the owner - like the strange assumption that the owner should now keep the doll as is for the rest of eternity. Which is strange, and (quite honestly) very, very invasive.

So what I'm saying is I can understand (intellectually) where the attitude comes from, but it always surprises me when it comes up, because I would have thought that people would realise that demanding that another owner share their doll with the world is very rude and not-good behaviour.

It's a sense of entitlement that has come from the forgotten (or never learnt) fact that no property on DOA is communal. The property all belongs to it's respected owner, but that owner has been nice and has decided to share (which they didn't have to do, so say thankyou!). But just like little kids who share their balls and cricket bats, that doll still belongs to it's owner, and still, therefore, is theirs to do with what they will.