Is using mohair fur okay?

For clarification.....rabbit fur usually used in clothing etc DOES NOT come from culled wild populations, it also DOES NOT come from animals used for food either. Rabbits bred for their fur are different to those bred for food that's why there's such a huge variety in domestic rabbits. No offense but thinking that fur suppliers are going to use the fur of rabbit that died of natural causes is pretty naive, do you honestly think they are going to sit and wait for Mr. Fwuffy Bunny wunny to cop it when they have orders to fill?? Plus they'd go out of business pretty fast if the pelts they supplied were jumping with fleas!
The big issue come from the fact that the cheaper suppliers of the fur quite often can't even be bothered to kill the animal first before skinning it.....this happens with a lot of the smaller animals used for fur and this is why I object to it very strongly as a fashion accessory. As has been said the quality and realism of faux fur these days means that there is no need to use real fur fashionwise other than the snobbery and 'look at me' value.

Larger animals obviously can't be treated in the same way but still you need to be careful of its source. One of our best known tibetan mohair wig makers for example gets her pelts from from particular suppliers and those pelts are part of community support programme for the Tibetan farmers who rear the sheep, similar to 'rainforest alliance' and 'fair trade' projects. Therefor she knows the sheep, farmers, etc were all treated fairly.

Gone for many are the days when what you wore was what you ate, so unless you are Inuit, or Laplander, etc the chances of the original wearer of your fur coat/boots/underpants being fairly treated and also used for other things such a food are pretty slim!!

 

well said Blodeuwedd....it's always a contentious issue when fur is discussed....i like to give my opinion because it is something i feel so passionately about...but i know everyone has their own opinions on this subject and they are fully entiltled to express how they feel....i shall just say this....sometimes i feel that people are more comfortable with an animal who is anonimous....for me it's an issue because i just cannot look the other way...i have pets and obviously they all have names thoughts and feelings....i as a concerned consumer and a compassionate one look at the bigger picture

 

I don't accept the fur industry, but as my grandmother left me some real fur clothes I've been using strips of them for doll fashions. That being said I accept vintage fur, but I know the fur most Asian firms use isn't vintage. The animal rights just don't have much hold on Asia yet and most animals are not even killed in Chinese fur farms before skinning, not to mention the ghastly living conditions the poor animals are kept in. I've seen it myself as I snag up to a fur farm as a kid and had nightmares about the place for ages. The cages are crowded, most animals are missing toes because the net floors, the animals have no proper shelter - only a roof to keep water out but no walls as the colder the animals suffer the better the fur. Some animals had been dead in their cages for long but the corpses were rotting next to their cellmates. And this was in Finland. You can trust me it's hundreds of times worse in Asia. In addition, in China, Taiwan and Singapore house cats are stolen from their homes for their fur - I've lived there and . As faux furs are really realistic nowadays I see no reason to kill animals for their furs - especially for dolls where even the warmth point cannot be argued.

I did get Integrity Toys to stop using real fur by petition so it can be done. If you'll start a petition I'll sign it.

 

I think I agree with Blodeuwedd, in the main, there is no justification for using any real fur on fashion items. Volks are Japanese and I think I'm right in saying that the Japanese do not wholeheartedly share our Western views on animal rights/cruelty, many countries don't. I'm not sure you can expect one company to not use something if it's considered acceptable in their country? Having said that, I think maybe you could petition a company like Volks to clearly label when they use Real Fur on their products so that people can make the choice when buying.

I was given a bag of assorted beautiful trims by a Russian milliner a few years back, she said it was from the 1950's, stuff that she'd been saving but never used. In amongst the ribbons and lace were some gorgeous strips of the softest fur I have ever felt. I have debated long and hard, one side of me thinks the animal is long dead, etc... but another part of me knows that if I ever use the fur trim it will be condoning the use of fur. Right now they just sit in the bag like guilty furry secrets.

I also have a large piece of Tibetan lambskin which was again given to me as a gift by a friend who did considerable travelling through India and China, and I was given assurances about the conditions the creature lived and died in and the fact the people who farmed it were also treated fairly. I have decided I will use this for my own dolls as I have it's provenance but beyond that I don't want to use animal hide where there is a risk that the animal was farmed solely for it's pelt.

I feel for your situation and totally understand your upset, but as you can see from the few comments so far, opinion is clearly divided. I guess we all have to decide what's acceptable to us and stick to it. I've just seem Emilia's comment and would also be happy to sign the petition if you decide to go for it.

 

Thanks, yes it is a difficult subject that is unfortunately fueled by ignorance and a 'if it doesn't have a face I don't mind/care' attitude.
Looking at the whole picture or at least a larger part of it helps one to make a more informed decision.

I also have bits of vintage fur from clothing items of my grandmothers, they remain in a bag. If folk want to recycle vintage fur then fine for their own use but again selling it even though it's vintage can be seen as fueling the fur trade. You may not be lying about the source but I'm sure plenty of people who do claim their stuff is 'vintage' are only using that as a means to sucker people into thinking it's a way to get around their conscience.

 

actually some of the rabbit fur does come from the ones slaughterd for meat
it's just that it is of a lower quality because it comes from very young rabbits whoes coat is not filled up and still partially filled with baby fluff. And this fur is rarely used for clothes, but is used for trimmings. And because it's lower quality it's cheaper, so chances that the fur on the boots came from a rabbit whoes meat got eaten and whoes bones got thrown in the gelatin mix.

I think it's extreemly rude to go an petition a company, from a country with diffrent views on fur, to stop producing stuff with fur. Because if it woudn't sell they woudn't use it. But it sells, so why should they stop because a handfull of people, who might never buy anything from them anyway, wants them too.

I think that if you have problems with real leather/fur you should take it on yourself to make sure what you buy is not real, don't blame companies(or individuals). You choose not to want it, you should do your homework not to end up with it.

 

Just a quick question, none of you own a pair of leather shoes? I've always found it sort of interesting how a lot of people are against fur, but not leather.

I agree that when the animals have a horrible life and might be skinned before they die, it's NOT ok.
However, if they're treated decently, have a proper life and a proper death, I don't see a problem.

 

I'm a huge lover of leather and fur. Fake materials are so much different while working with them, and to the touch too. There is no alternative to me.

But I think it would be kind if companies or commissioners were stating clearly if fur used in their clothes is natural or not. So the people would have a choice, and if someone has some prejudice towards the natural fur they would simply not buy it.

 

I actually have some rabbit pelts on the way... however they came from a reservation and are being sold after the animal was eaten, so I know it was a wild rabbit, not one from a fur farm, and it was put to best use as food, etc too. I wouldn't buy anything that came with real fur, knowingly, because I do not agree with industrialized food or fur, and therefore I don't know whether it came from a fur farm or what. I think it's important for all companies to state up front whether the fur/leather etc in an item is real, or fake. Perhaps you could email volks, mention it, and ask politely that they make note of it up front. I don't think there should be a culture issue here because well, they have a US store so...

 

Well, I don't see a problem with using furs when they come from sheep, lambs, cows, calves, rabbits, etc - in other words: from animals who're being killed anyways, for food. Be it industrial or other. Cos I also like my meat. And it would be hypocritical to condemn the use of even those kinds of furs but still be eating meat. It's way better to use all parts of an animal instead of just throwing them away. (Would it be better if less animals were killed to be eaten? Heck, yeah! But as long as they are, I don't mind people putting their furs and all other parts that can be used to good use.)

That's just me, however. I like doing things properly or not at all. I would still consider myself being hypocritical if I didn't eat any meat, didn't use any furs at all, even condemned the use of furs - but at the same time, still wore leather shoes. If you don't want any animals to suffer on your behalf and want to set an example, then don't use any "animal-materials" AT ALL. So would I use furs on my dolls? Yes. And on myself, too. Would I use furs from animals that are bred for the sole purpose of killing them for their fur? Nope. Would I investigate in every single case whether the sheep/cow/lamb/rabbit I got the fur from was indeed killed to be eaten? Nope. There's only 24 hours to a day and those few that I got for myself and my hobbies are just too precious few me to spend them on finding out how and why exactly the animal that originally owned the fur was killed and what was its first name. (Of course you can ask the seller but, honestly, what guarantee is there that he'll tell you the truth?)

 

I get my rabbit fur (on the rare ocassions I need it) from a local farmer who shoots rabbits to keep the numbers down on his property (They tend to graze down the grass which is meant for the horses, and too high a population means that there's not enough food for both horses and rabbits, so both groups end up going hungry). There's actually a clause in English law ( http://www.netregs.gov.uk/netregs/63332.aspx )that landowners here have to keep down the numbers of nuisance animals on their property, so as not to disturb the livelihoods of those around them (In this case, the rabbit numbers must be kept low so as not to damage the quality of the neighbouring farms' pastures).

The meat is shared out between the farmer and his neighbours, for the pot, I take the skins for sewing, and whatever bones are left over get ground down to make abrasives by a local jeweller. Despite being anti-fur trade (I too have seen the inside of a fur farm, and it was not a pretty sight) I can't bring myself to feel bad at all about my use of this fur.

Addendum - I'm vegetarian, vegan other than milk and eggs from my local free-range dairy and the eggs from a friend's allotment, won't wear leather unless it's vintage, and just have to weigh in one last time to remind people that the animals killed for fur and leather don't usually have their carcasses eaten so saying "Oh well, the meat gets eaten anyway" is usually incorrect.

 

Kashemia: I can only speak for myself but I only wear good quality leather shoes where I have reason to think the leather came from responsibly farmed animals, and assumed that the leather is a by product of farming in some but not all cases. I don't really have a problem with people rearing animals purely for their skin/pelt either as long as the animal has a decent life and is killed humanely. There is the old argument that many species would now be extinct if man did not need to farm them.

The problem with the whole history of Fur farming is that it was not done with any regard to the quality of life of the animal, which was subjected to cruel conditions purely for it's pelt and in some cases are still skinned alive. It's not just rabbit, sable, mink, high end furs which are suddenly fashionable again with the rich, the sources of that fur are often quite dubious and I don't want to condone that industry by buying it's products.

I was quite a strict veggie for about 15 years, after a brief stint working in the poultry industry which shocked me to the core, but, thanks to improvements in animal conditions in the UK and the ready availability of free-range/responsibly farmed meat I have lapsed now. There is only so much you can do to research the sources of animal by products, and you make choices based on your own conscience, this is hardly being a hypocrite!

I still only eat free range or responsibly farmed meat though and prefer to buy only leather products that have some provenance. To my mind there is a huge difference between leather that comes from a cow/calf which lived in a reasonable "natural" life in a field and was killed humanely and a small rodent which was kept in a tiny cage in an artificially lit hut, jammed in with loads of others, sometimes dead for days and then skinned alive so a tiny bit of fur trim can go onto a dolls boots.

 

I think that the decision to use fur (and leather and to eat meat) is a personal choice, especially as there is often probably not a definite way to determine the origin of the product, unless it comes with specific certification of some sort. I personally prefer for other people not to make these decisions for me because I am perfectly able to make them for myself.

 

This is a difficult situation -- I think I agree most with the above. It will leave the choice to buy or not up to the individual, and if doll products using real fur don't sell well, that I would think would have an impact on the company's choices in the future. By asking them to label clearly, it also lets the company know in a polite way that some customers are not comfortable with those products -- something which Volks and others may not even realize due to cultural differences.

 

I'm pretty much in the same boat. I have yet to find synthetics that hold up to the real thing. Of course many members of my mother's family were livestock farmers, and one of the early lessons of my childhood was that the livestock aren't pets. My grandfather raised rabbits and goats for a while as a secondary income. My great-grandfather was mostly a vegetable farmer, but he also had a smattering of cows, chickens, turkeys, and pigs. There was always a working relationship with the animals and an understanding that at some point in the future they would be butchered and eaten. This isn't to say that the animals were treated badly because we knew we were going to kill them, rather the opposite. My great-grandfather was accused on more than one occasion of treating the animals better than he treated most people. It just meant that we didn't view their deaths and subsequent processing for human use as anything wrong or morally challenging.

However, I'm not so naive as to think that all or even most farms are like the ones I remember from my childhood. Most of them resemble factories more so than farms, and people have traded integrity for a bigger profit margin. Because of this, I will go out of my way to obtain my meat and animal byproducts from a known reputable source (a choice that has as much to do with my respect for farmers as it does for animals), but as Khell said, I lack both the time and interest to find out where all of the dead animal bits I use come from. I buy free range meat from the local meat market for when I cook, leather from a local high end leather shop for when I sew with it, and I don't look to hard at the other instances of animal byproducts in my life.

I do agree though, that there should be some upfront statement about what went into making the shoes. Not only because of the moral objections some might have, but also because where animal products are involved there is a risk of allergic reactions. I knew someone who was allergic to rabbit fur. If she had handled those boots unknowingly, she would have come away with hands covered in rashes. A polite note to Volks requesting that they mention when real animal products are used is probably not a bad idea.

 

I'm a meat-eater, I wear leather and while my own fashion taste does not include fur, I wouldn't be against using real leather or real fur for my dolls. But then, the way I see it, animals were put here for humans to make use of. And I'd rather have beef farms on big open plains than a bunch of half-starved cattle running loose like you see in places like India. :\

I do endorse kind treatment of animals being raised for fur or meat products. Many cattle farms in the area I'm from have tilted toward more humane methods of ending an animal's life, and that's dandy. A lot of them also have a better quality of life than they would in the wild - 'Round here, anyway.

That said, if I were to seek out materials to use for my doll, I'd probably get them all from friends or relatives. I have friends who raise rabbits and cattle for food, so I know exactly how the animal has been treated. For deer leather, I have an uncle who hunts, not for sport, but for venison. If I were to make something myself, that's the route I would go... But seeing fur or leather trims on a piece of doll clothing sold by a company wouldn't stop me from buying it, either.

Err... What? Isn't that backwards? Real fur is almost always MUCH more expensive than faux fur, and often harder to work with too. Faux fur is easy to sew with. Driving a needle through an animal skin isn't quite so easy. It's not a matter of cost or laziness, it's that the companies are trying to offer what they think is a higher-quality product. :s

 

I merely meant that real fur is obviously easier to get hold of and certain companies don't look into altenatives...we have all seen the horror stories and docues of how animals are treated to obtain fur, with cat and dog fur farms on the increase....fur is easy to get hold of in certain areas of the world....if we knew all the horrible things that went on in the world, we just wouldn't sleep at night .....it is a personal choice, but not one that will ever be made by me..like i always say, where there is money there is cruelty, but you have to make your own decisions and that's what healthy mature discussions are all about

 

First: thank you all for the friendly replies

for me it is easy to say: I do not have problems with the Inuit who catch and eat animals for living and use their fur for clothing. But the fur industry in Western countries annoys me a lot. Animal abuse and only for fur. I really hate those asian countries with factories for dog and kitty fur and how they rip off the skin from a living animal. That's the most important reason for me not to wear fur (or my dolls) I can't even sleep from those animal abuse. Same for mink fur. I have no idea if rabbit fur is different from those animals or not. I even do not want to wear it and if I feel it,it feels really soft but also a little bit dirty..Strange enough I do not have problems with leather. I think it is a remaining product from an animal used for their meat. but..most animals are abused too in the bio-industry so I do not buy too much leather but I do.

anyway,I will check out the material next time before I'll buy myself some new boots.

 

Actually... not really. The very high quality faux furs I'd priced a few years back were more costly for a 1/4 yard than a pair of rabbit pelts. I could also get the rabbit from the local craft store -- and had to drive 2 hours to a specailty fabric store to get the faux fur of comparable quality. (Sure, if you already know what you want you can order it online and pay shipping and such, but the point is more that it's not necessarily as easy to get the good faux fur as it is to get a rabbit pelt.) Similarly, most of the faux fur I've used sheds and frays like mad, which is a problem not encountered in the same way with skin. It isn't so much a matter of which is easier than the other, unless it's on a project to project basis; both have practical downsides. I don't think one is inherently of a higher quality than the other, though some are more appropriate to any given project than the other, moral issues aside. Among folks I've seen who don't have moral issues using fur or leather, people tend to go with what they have on hand, or what they had initially envisioned for any given project. I know there are some projects I picture using real fur based on certain characteristics of it, and others I'd prefer to use faux.

 

A little FYI..I'm a farmer's daughter, the cattle we dealt with were beef cattle and just like your great-grandfather Opifex my father treated the animals in his care with extreme respect...so much so that the cows would happily let him handle their newborn calves to check them over. Anyone else that tried got chased or in my uncle's case pinned to a fencepost between the horns of one very angry cow.
That same uncle was a game-keeper, if it moved he shot it....if it didn't move he shot it just in case! He quite often gave the family deer, rabbits, pheasants to eat....hell he even taught me how to skin a dead rabbit (very difficult to do when you're a child).
Therefor I knew what death was at a very young age, but also I learned that respect is everything, that the welfare of the animals in our care and around us is of uttmost importance, and that we can't just take without giving. I learned to despise cruelty especially when there is no need for it. Those are the reasons I despise the commercial fur trade, those are the reasons I will not eat any meat that I don't know the origin of and find certain food like veal and fois gras utterly appalling.