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Judgemental views against people who create LGBT BJD characters, does it exist?

May 29, 2018

    1. Being a part of the LGBT community myself, and an agender person who experience dysphoria I worry about freely expressing myself through my dolls and be open about the characters that I create. I worry that some of the things I post and say in the forums might make some people judge me!

      [​IMG]IMG_1750 by ManabuLi010, on Flickr

      This is my IH SID Rania boy "Sebastian". He's like me an agender person, but minus the dysphoria. I'm currently waiting for his younger sister "Anya" who is a transwoman. Anya's sculpt is a DZ Devon head on a DZ 62cm boy body. She is based on the transgender fashion model "Stav Strashko" who were born as a male, identifies as a woman but am comfortable with the body she was born with. So Anya will keep her's too.

      My YID Lucian "Robbin" is their friend and a LGBT ally.

      My current plans are to create a colorful group of BJDs of all kinds of character types. I worry that they might get a little bit too colorful for some. But creating these characters are important to me because being able to express myself through my dolls have been a little bit like therapy for me.

      So I wonder, does judgemental views in the BJD community against people in the LGBT community, and of LGBT BJD characters exist?!
      • x 9
    2. I've found that the bjd community is also full of people from the LGBT community and a lot of us have dolls that reflect that so don't worry, there's quite a few of us :) It's made me feel very comfortable in that sense as I've met so many other similar people!
      • x 2
    3. Ok :) I just had to ask because there is something I've never really thought about before. After my dysphoria took off in the beginning of 2018 and I found myself spending a lot of time on sites like r/asktransgender I started worry more about these things. But it's good to hear though that I do not need to worry!
      • x 4
    4. I'm part of the LGBT community too and so are my dolls! :whee: As you, I really love expressing myself through my dolls and I think that's one of the best things in this hobby. My doll's sexual orientation or gender identity isn't all my dolls are but an important part of theirselves just like in real life. I've always felt comfortable in the BJD community because people is normally into it too or, at least, respectful about it. If you ever find someone who is against your ideology and they do not respect you, don't waste your time with them, just don't care about them and keep spreading color and love <3
      • x 4
    5. The biggest problems I've seen with LGBT dolls is stereotyping with no research. I haven't actually seen anyone get upset just because a doll was LGBT, but I have seen people get upset when that becomes the only character trait, or things are very poorly researched and done only for shock value or entertainment purposes. Create a character, not a caricature, and I don't see why there should be any issue. I've had characters of various genders and orientations and no one has ever attacked me for it.
      • x 15
    6. @Ziel Hehe thanks :) I will spread some rainbows around then :blush I already knew there were some gay characters on DOA. But I worried how some people might react to my transgender characters. I know that there's not easy irl for a transgender person. Even though I experience dysphoria I'm someone who do not wish to have SRS done. But I've come across so many posts on Reddit about transgender people wishing to end their lives, it was shocking for me to read through their stories! That's when I realized how serious it is for these individuals when they can't fully be them selves. And how difficult it is once they've fully transitioned to be accepted by society. So yeah, that made me worry about creating my transgender characters.

      But I shall worry no more xd! I guess DOA is a fairly safe place for people of the LGBT community.

      @Bklynchyk Yes, all dolls matter :)

      @CloakedSchemer One thing I do not like is when people create characters just because they think it's cool! It could be a transgender person, someone who self harms them selves, someone who suffers from a mental illness or someone who have been abused as a child. It's not cool to suffer from gender dysphoria, It's not cool to self harm, It's not cool to have a mental illness or to have been abused as a child! These are all serious matters and horrible things to go through, so It's bad when things like that get fetishized!
      #6 manabusama, May 30, 2018
      Last edited: May 30, 2018
      • x 4
    7. There are always jerks in any crowd, but I think in general the doll hobby is full of people who are happy to let you do your thing. (And to enable you to do it more, omg we are all such enablers... :XD:)
      • x 1
    8. I feel somehow that especially BJD community is very LGBT saturated and there are lots of great m/m f/f characters and owners around :3nodding:Of course like others mentioned; there's bad apples anywhere in the world, but I believe BJD collectors are very open!
    9. Well there's something I like to sing with my boyfriend because it's just like that and internet will never change:

      Every breath you take
      Every move you make
      Every bond you break
      Every step you take
      They'll be hating you...

      Lol! With this I mean, no matter what you do, if you're showing something openly on the internet (and even more if you become popular) you'll have haters. So why worrying about what some stranger people think if you're doing what makes you happy? :) besides, I've seen a lot of lgtb in this hobby, as some users have said. Luckily, I've only found nice and open minded people on this forum, so you don't have to worry. The only thing I'd suggest is tagging the titles of your galleries if they're about something specific, like love, lgtb, nsfw, erotic... so people that are not interested just don't open it. Outside DOA... I have no idea, honestly. I've read somewhere that tumblr is full of drama, but I don't know which kind, so I don't even want to try, lol! See you around!
      • x 3
    10. I've personally found DOA to be a very accepting place, but I will admit that before this thread, I myself had the same concerns, though most likely to a lesser degree. Thus, I have refrained from mentioning anything along the lines of orientation with my characters, particularly my girl Calista's pansexuality. (Probably doesn't help that I'm still mostly in the closet myself, and find that I'm at least slightly paranoid that I'll be found out by people I really don't want knowing yet...)

      I definitely believe you'll find more friends than not here. There's already been a lot of support given here, but let me just say this as well...Even if I were to be wrong about everything else, I can say for certain that I look forward to seeing your dolls!!! :)
      • x 2
    11. This is a bit of a salty answer, but I'd say that I agree with CloakedSchemer's statement on stereotyping, but to a greater (and more pessimistic) extent.
      I haven't seen people getting flack for having LGBT+ dolls (I'm sure there are some outright homophobes in the hobby, but I've never seen them). However, I think the doll community has a bit of an issue with how it often sees and treats LGBT+ issues/people in a reductive, fetishizing way. It's less treatment of the dolls' creators/writers that's an issue, and more about iffy treatment of sexual orientation and gender overall.

      Fandom-type spaces often lean towards fetishization, and this... is one of those spaces.
      (By "fandom-type" I mean "centred around similar interests and/or subculture that's traditionally feminine and/or mostly full of cis women". Doll culture has the same community feel as a fandom, imo.)
      And those fandom-ish views on LGBT+ issues tend to be "gay guy couples are soooo cuuuuuute, what the heck is a trans though, ha ha casual gender essentialism". There are some people who know and care more, and are involved in LGBT+ communities/activism/spaces, but that's the prevailing view. (And being LGBT+ doesn't necessarily mean that you're guaranteed to have an educated view on the parts of the acronym that don't apply to you - cis gay people are often transphobic, for example, and non-binary people aren't always the most educated about binary trans issues and vice versa.)
      Consider the amount of m/m doll couples you've seen to f/f doll couples - it's wildly disproportionate, and there's a reason for it. (And the reason, unlike the justification for m/m ship frequency in popular media, isn't a shortage of female dolls.)

      That wasn't meant to be a condemnation of anyone in particular, or a hate statement towards fandoms or the site - that's just what I've seen over the few years I've been active in this kind of space. Yeah, this is a pretty safe place to be who you are (and have your dolls be who they are), but there's some irritating microaggression-ish background noise that I'd like to see changed.
      Ultimately, we could all use a bit of education and some time spent re-evaluating our opinions and motivations, and thinking about what stereotypes we might have internalized by accident. Research never hurts - and sensitivity readers (or similar) can't hurt either.

      (This kind of discussion can put people on edge, but I think open and polite discussion [when politeness is warranted, and the discussion is wanted on the end of the LGBT+ person] really helps open people's minds.
      Treatment of LGBT+ people and characters is one of my main [literary/sociological] interests, and the topic of my eventual dissertation/thesis/whatever, so I kind of... went off. If anyone wants to talk more about LGBT+ issues, or is considering having trans characters and wants to write them respectfully - hit me up. I don't bite, and I'm always glad to talk.)

      With love and criticism,
      your not-so-local gay trans doll hobbyist.
      • x 24
    12. I've seen a pretty supportive community on DoA regarding LGBTQ dolls/characters. I'm a cis gender woman with a m/m couple, but they both have characters with backstories and other relationships.
      • x 1
    13. Admittedly, I stick more to the crafting/creating side of DoA, but I've never seen anything anti-LGBT in my 7 years here. People here are usually pretty chill, and if things ever get out of hand, you can always get in contact with the mods.

      As for your doll's identity, if it makes you happy, go for it! The way I see it, dolls are an extension of their owners, so if it helps you to have them be LGBT, more power to you! The most important thing is that you're enjoying what you do with your dolls, and straight to heck with anyone who gives you a hard time! :hug:
      • x 2
    14. Thank you @jaderose you hit the issue on the nose.
      (I'm totally guilty of having m/m couples for the "Aw cute" o.O)
      Almost all my dolls are in the LGBTQIA+ spectrum and they don't receive hatred. However I try not to depict stereotypes and fetishistic things with them. In fact, it worries me that I'm not always sensitive in portraying certain couples in a kind/respectful way.
      But I do feel a bit tired when I see couples portraying queer issues in a shallow way, for drama or instant social justice cred. My queerness is not someone's prop!
      • x 3
    15. I've come across a few hobbyists that are not at all comfortable with LBGTQA people or their LGBTQA doll characters. Not very many, but they do exist. Den of Angels is a bit of a safe bubble compared to other online places. We do not allow any kind of meanness or harassment on the forum. If someone says something inappropriate in a thread, or in a private Conversation, you just need to hit that Report button /!\ and a staffer will help you.

      Most all of my dolls charas fall into the LGBTQA spectrum, and I'm somewhere in there too (as a proper Gen-X I've never liked labels). I'm also surrounded in my daily life with people all over the spectrum. If I have a really queer cast of dolls, it is just reflecting my reality. I certainly would not allow someone else's judgement of me or what I do with my dolls change a damn thing.
      • x 5
    16. Let me start by being my usual cynical self by saying there will always be judgemental people no matter what hobby/community you're in. That being said here on DOA I have seen no instance of someone judging another person for having an LGBT doll :)

      I have a lot of dolls and almost all of them fall into the LBGT spectrum. I have a lot of m/m and f/f couples among my crew and a few asexual dolls too. Most recently one of my characters who I will be getting a doll for soon is intersex who uses female pronouns.

      At the end of the day our dolls are a way of expressing ourselves and everyone should feel free to create characters for them from all walks of life.
      #16 Magical Rin, May 30, 2018
      Last edited: May 30, 2018
      • x 2
    17. I'm gonna preface this by saying I'm a gay transgender guy, this is just a few things I've noticed.

      I've not dealt with anything directed at me, but I've seen people refer to their dolls that are boys dressed as girls as t*aps and a lot of the same issues with "Oh, gay guys are SOOOO cute JUST because they're gay!" sorta style of fetishization and watering-down of people/characters that plagues most fandoms these days. I also notice a lot of the "guys dressed as girls" dolls are usually in super revealing clothes? Like, they're in micro-mini skirts and see-through crop tops and wear nothing but panties. (Also wanna say, it's okay to have dolls who have clothes like that. It's just...when that's their entire wardrobe and it's obvious they're just a sexual/fetish-y thing....it can get a bit uncomfortable for some people). I usually don't comment on posts like that (I had to stop myself from commenting on the t*ap post I saw, some other people mentioned how it was offensive and I haven't seen that person around in that group much after that). I've also seen some people get...upset? For lack of a better word, at the fact that there are SO many gay guy dolls. These are usually the same people who make comments like that when a show has more than one token LGBT person on it cause they feel having more than one on screen at the same time is "unrealistic". I usually don't pay those people much mind, they're easy to ignore.

      So, those may make you uncomfy depending on the situation, but as far as homophobia or transphobia hurled at me as a person or my dolls? Not had to deal with that (yet, thankfully)
      • x 10
    18. Not everyone is going to be comfortable with everything. Not all want to know everything about everyone's personal/sexual/romantic/private life when they just want to do social-hobby things with their dolls. Regional culture varies, values of individuals varies, etc. While someone might think it's fine and dandy to discuss personal details, others don't always understand why it's a theme of the conversation and don't know how to react. The common theme for all of us here is dolls. Different people enjoy different dolls for different reasons in different ways. If you are making someone uncomfortable, then just focus on the dolls. If someone makes you uncomfortable, focus on the dolls. Some people might feel that sexuality is private, some don't, neither way is wrong. So, just be aware that everyone has different feelings about the hobby and enjoys it differently. Please also keep in mind that this is a 13+ forum. Many parents also like dolls. Chances are, there are several parents of LGBTQ youth here. The site has over 50,000 members. Once you get to know someone and respect their comfort levels, then the other issues will be easier to handle. I've never met anyone in any sort of doll hobby who are there just to make people with any particular orientation or gender expression feel bad. As long as someone is comfortable with themselves, uses good manners and sensitivity, then there is no reason to be insecure about how to enjoy dolls.
      • x 3
    19. I'm another one with the “be careful with the fetishy aspect” group. As a WLW, especially as one who found out about that aspect of myself via things like BL that could definitely be considered “fetishized”, with all the misguiding that implies, I think it’s important to handle the subject matter wisely, as you don’t know who’s reading it— someone who could harm, but especially someone who could be hurt or misled.

      That being said, the BJD community has a good variety of LGBTQ characters, though I am rather disappointed at the lack of f/f characters. Not much I can do about that, though. :( Not at the moment, anyway.
      • x 2
    20. I think that as long as the focus is on the character, before the gender, you should be "safe".
      I mentioned this in another trans related thread, that not everyone who is trans wants to be defined as trans. So if you step into your doll's characters - what do they feel towards/how do they view their gender-identity?

      They can have stereotypes and be ok, as long as it is not all they are. That is the line, where I think people might react and feel a little stepped on.

      (Fleshed out characters can never go wrong?)
      • x 4