Limiteds- Are they really so limited?

Wanted to say that yes they have re-released a limited mold after the stated limited time ordering period
ex. Re-released elves Kumi and Roko in January 2007 saying they were left over stock. They said the limited ordering period was November of 2006. They did the same for the friends of the forest elves in October.

I guess it doesn't count as re-release if they claim it's leftover stock or cancellations but who's to check their warehouse.

--------------
On the debate itself I think the use of the word Limited becomes a subject of interpretation on company by company usage and is often used to boost sales. Take for example labeling food to "light" is it light in calorie or light in color. Usually it becomes inferred as light in calories.

The one thing I've learned in dolly buying is always read the fine print and if there is none then don't infer there is one and you get less aggravated.

Limited only implies produced in limited quantities. I wonder as an example if some "unpopular" volks fcs molds have been more limited than limiteds itself.

I do find it tacky to produce something as limited then turn around a few days later not months later and produce a normal version without prior warning. In that case the one who gets the short end of the bargain is the "early adopter". It all depends on if the LE outfit was worth the extra dollar of early adopter fee to the buyer. in that case one can always just resell he outfit.

 

I find the broad definition of "limited" in the bjd community interesting. It's another reflection of the different approach to doll collecting/ownership/marketing of bjds, than in the fashion doll community, from where I came. I have no problem with sculpts being reissued as non-elf versions, say, or a dressed fullset being considered limited, whereas the general release basic doll is not. I do have a concern, though, with a company releasing a limited version of a doll (or sculpt) and saying there will only be "x" number of them made, and then releasing the exact same doll, down to the outfit, a couple years later. (Not including "no further will be released" to me is semantics. I think that is implied when the number is given.) The example that comes to mind is Elfdoll Nabee. If Tonner produced a special limited Sydney for an event, say, and people who could not attend the event scrambled to get her on the secondary market, and then he just decided to release more down the road, just because she was so popular, there would be an uproar in the fashion doll community.

The idea of "limited" affects peoples buying decisions, such as, whether they will pay an inflated price on the secondary market if they missed the release, or deciding to buy a doll hastily before it sells out (perhaps changing plans and deferring a general release doll.) From my personal standpoint, I would love to do away with "limited." It only puts pressure on me. I have Nabee, and how many other people have Nabee does not affect how I enjoy her. I do feel badly for someone though who paid an inflated price for her (or Latidoll Adel, etc.) only to find them released again at retail. It is not going to turn me against a company because they do this, but it begs saying take "limited" with a grain of salt in the marketing of bjds, and don't allow your buying decisions to be overly affected by it. Now, if only this concept of "limited" would be applied to Bermann, I would be one happy camper. :-)

 

well im kinda in this situation now, im selling my first doll to get a limited edition promo doll.... and theres talk of it possibly becoming available for purchase... and it kinda upsets me knowing that i had to sell my doll RIGHT NOW to get that doll that could very possibly be selling in the future. its like "what the...?" i thought it was a promotion, and i understand people wanting it more and unable to buy it now but, thats what will make mine so special.

theres this feeling you get when you're poor and you get a special limited edition doll and your best friend who's rich cant get one just because she got a new doll ^.^ [personal experience, made to make people giggle, dont feel offended]

 

The talk of whether it's the company's prerogative or not started from your earlier statement:

That's what I was debating against because if they have claimed that it will never be released again, then of course it's not their prerogative to simply change their minds. If they haven't claimed that, then it's all a moot point.

I'm not in the position where I actually suffered from such a release again and even if I was, I would not sue the company for it. It would be a very pointless venture and while I find the practice of naming everything limited when they're really not rather irritating, I don't find it hateful enough to want to take legal action.

This debate is pretty much my way of saying 'boo' and giving the companies a thumbs down, as you said. I will actually buy from those companies despite their less than stellar ethics. I won't judge a whole company by their selling ethics, but...ah, well, I will happily debate that what they do isn't right.

 

I think, for me, I just don't personally understand Lut's definition of "limited". For example, their Mini Fee elves. The Shushu elves seem to fit the definition of limited, because they were produced in a limited quantity and were only available during a certain time period. Yes, you can still get the regular Shushu, but no more elf/vampire. That's fine. But the Shiwoo elves have been available for I don't know how long, and they are still available for sale now, and yet Luts still deems them "limited".

This doesn't make sense to me. There's been no limit to quantity produced, they don't come with a particularly special face-up/wig/clothes (hell, they come naked/wigless, like any other doll), and they appear to be a regular stock product. They cost the same as a normal Shiwoo special, so you're not even paying extra for elf ears/vampire fangs. So how does that make them limited?

Just my two cents...

 

Limited is such a vague term when used in marketing.
Aside from all the issues mentioned above, to me the term limited is only meaningful if a number is given and that number is very small. When Pipos produce only 30 Siamese Bahas, then limited means something.
When Volks call Ayumu a limited doll, I'm not sure what it means because I don't know how many hundreds were produced.

 

This reminds me of how Disney always puts their movies out as limited - once they're gone they're gone, and everyone rushes out and buys them, and then a year later it's released again - with something to make it special - extra footage, directors cut - widescreen vs full screen, whatever it is. At first people bought it and rushed out immediately to make sure they got it while they were out, but later people realized that it just meant "that release" of it was only out for a certain amount of time, but that they could very well re-release it the next year and so there wasn't such an immediacy - However there are some that release only very seldom with a very long distance in between, so it's a buy or not buy at your own risk - how important is it to you - that's really what matters.

The term limited, just means that there is a limit on that product packaged in that manner at that time of release. I guess the question is why are you buying it, how soon do you need it - what are the specifics you're after, are you after the doll because you love it, or are you after it because you want something that is "special" and not many out there, and then make your buying choice accordingly with the understanding that it doesn't necessarily mean, it will never be for sale again.

 

It is a relative term. I really don't consider the delf art pieces to be actual limited dolls considering they are actually just.. regular dolls with special make up and clothes. They're pretty, and wonderful to have-- they're really no different than any other regular luts sculpt-wise.
I think that's what determines whether the doll is limited or not. If a company only makes X amount of dolls of said sculpt, that constitutes as limited edition doll. When a company re-releases a limited edition doll, that's when things tend to get weird.
I still stand by my opinion that if you like the doll, buy it! and if it happens to be a LE doll from 3 years ago, you better have a big fat bank account.

 

Ok, there seems to be some serious Luts limited issues going on in this thread. I'm not sure what's confusing people either.

Luts Art Dolls are called exactly that on the site, Delf Art; not Limited Delfs. Their Decriptions read that they are LIMITED TO A CERTAIN NUMBER, but they are not called Limiteds. I think their descriptions pretty accurate if anything, they're basically Delf dolls that Luts has turned into "art pieces" if you will.

Luts' actual Limiteds are limited in various ways, whether it's by the number of dolls released or the period in which they are release.

All Luts limited dolls are priced roughly the same as their regular dolls, in the case of Lu-wen he was priced even lower than regular Special Sets.

MNF Elf Shiwoo was limited by the number of his release, if you look in the section of regular Delfs you'll see Limited Harang and Limited Elf Chiwoo are also still in stock and have been so for longer. Because Luts limited by the actual number of dolls they could be on the site anywhere from mere minutes to months, it all depends on how quickly the doll sells out. MNF Elf Shiwoo is limited, once he sells out, he's sold out. Theoretically there will be no restock of him, and even if there is in the future he's not a regular release item, so he is still limited.

I remember when Elf Lishe and El were re-released there was a big kerfuffle about how unfair it was. I failed to see what was unfair personally. Elf Lishe's sculpt was different, not to mention that the '06 versions of Lishe and El were simply a full doll. The original release of Elf El included a dreaming vampire head, and the original Lishe included TWO extra heads and a set of boots.

I don't know, personally I'm of the mind that I don't much care for "limited" status on my doll, or if they re-release a "limited" doll. I love my Elf El whether there's 90 (or whatever the amount was) of him or 90,000 others, and truth be told, I probably love my regular ol' El-SS as much if not more than any of my Limited dolls.

 

Ok, that makes more sense, I guess. It was just purely observation (probably poor observation >.>;; ) on my part. I have an elf/vampire MNF Shiwoo now, and am also fond of the Shushu sculpt (the regular one, though, not the limited), so I looked at the Mini Fees a lot :P and I just kind of though to myself, "Huh, this one seems more 'limited' than that one." I guess a lot of this was based upon the whole "Elf Shushu is only available from this date to this date, and Elf Shiwoo is available till he's gone" thing that threw me.

I'm still pretty new to the whole BJD fandom, so yeah...that's just what my thought process was :P

Another thing I wondered about was the abundance of elf/vamp Shiwoos in the secondhand market lately. But I guess that's another topic entirely

 

You can buy Petsha with Elf ears if you like ^^


With DOD, it's all about the little details. Some people fail to miss that ==. Me and my friend YetTAY were willing to pay for our dolls because they were LImited. I happened to have a vamp teeth fancy and I happened to have a Elf ear fetish. It really depends on the person and really, how much can you really do to change an existing doll into a "Limited" or "Collector"?

( Now I'm gonna get flames saying you can do heaps D: )

 

u know i often think limiteds are just a way for the company to test out a new style or new doll, and if it was really popular they might think of selling it at other events. it's like a test drive when they don't have to produce so many and thus could basically not have leftovers in case the doll wasn't that popular.

in this sense, it's just a selling technique ,and thus it'd be normal if they made regular editions or sold it at events...?

 

Yes, I think limited should mean limited. But that can mean the fullset is limited and the normal isnt, or the elf version is limited and the normal isnt.

But I do understand where some companies are coming from in relasing more of their limited dolls later. They are probably getting plagued by people pleading for them to do it. And I've seen for most of the rereleases of limiteds are in themselves limited, making the doll still limited (just not quite so much so).

One-offs should be one-offs. One and only one. Limited as long as there is some limit, can be argued as okay even with rereleases.

 

Well, if they cost is the same as the normal line it does not matter that they say he's limited. I have a Shiwoo, and I like him. And I was glad I could get him whenever I wanted, not during some very very short ordering period at an inflated price. What I don't like about limited editions is that it is too hard to get them at the original release price, and I don't want to pay inflated prices at second hand markets.

I have to admit I ordered the limited grown up Laches from Lati. I loved the whole concept, outfit and all. I don't know if Lati will make more later, but I assume that they won't make exactly the same outfit anyway. (If only Lati would ship my little Laches soon...)

 

I don't really care if a doll is a limited or not. I don't usually buy a doll for it's outfit since I sew for a living. I buy for the sculpt, so if there are standards, I just wait for them. I did have a very limited Supia 60, but I sold her because she was not all that I had hoped she'd be and well, french resin is problematic. So, exclusive or not, she found a new home.

I'm glad that some dolls are re-released since I can only buy a few dolls per year. Currently I'm saving for a Volks Yo-SD and MSD. Yo's are all limiteds aren't they? Usually the limiteds have better bodies and I'm waiting for a doll like Lin and I don't want to pay the secondary price. So, if she comes around again then I'll be very happy. I'd also love to get a SD16 some day and I'm waiting for Amelia to be re-issued

If it comes to paying almost twice the price of a standard doll for what's basically a special outfit or faceup, I wouldn't do it for a doll from most companies. If it were a Volks sculpt that doesn't come around much, I would, since the price is usually fair for what you get and it would be that particular sculpt that I want.

Shoot, I've become a Volksie

 

Hm. My personal views aside, I honestly don't think there's anything wrong with a company re-releasing a limited doll with another limited run. If a doll is produced in a batch of 100 in 2005, 100 in 2006, 100 in 2007 it's still limited. Or if it's available for sale at an event, and at another event a year or two later. So long as they aren't released as a standard, they are still limited- no matter how many releases they have, if the releases are all limited than the doll is still limited in quantity.

Someone pointed out the Bambicrony "re-release" of cancelled or leftover elves, which I didn't think was that bad. The sale of cancelled elves from the most recent set included a TOTAL of 9 dolls- they listed how many of each were available in which colour and it was clearly because the orders were cancelled or something along that line, or they wouldn't post saying "we have one normal skin elf Gun for sale!" What are they supposed to do, throw those dolls out? : / So in cases like that I think it's understandable and it doesn't really effect the overall limited-ness of the doll. I do think that the way BC releases some dolls with very short warning/announcement is frustrating at times. That's one nice thing about some companies like Volks- you get plenty of pictures and warning and promotion of their limited dolls so you get an idea when to save up and what's coming soon etc.

That aside, to be honest... if a company sells a doll at one event or for one week or what have you and later gets hundreds or thousands of pleading requests to release it again, can't you understand why they would? Money aside it means they are concerned with pleasing their customers and listening to what people tell them. It may upset some older collectors but is wins new fans and pleases other collectors, and the dolls are still limited and valuable.

 

If a company says "never to be released again" and they release it again, yeah that's crap. If a company says "ooh this is limited" and they release it again well then they didn't say it wasn't happening did they?

In general I think when people get upset because their limited was re-released they're either just annoyed that they paid a ton for a doll they could get at regular price now, or that their "special limited" status may go down. Of course I'm still hoping for a Woosoo re-release someday so I can have one whose skintones actually match. *shrug* (And the fact that I paid more than the price of a full doll for my Woosoo's head wouldn't upset me in the least.)

 

Re Bambicrony

They specifically stated that those were leftovers. Maybe true, maybe not.

However, they did just re-release elf Kumi and Roko for real which boggles my mind. The fullsets are totally different and those are usually the limited-in-number ones. But I did have the impression that the dolls themselves were limited to one sale period. I haven't looked close to see if they changed the ears this time. I was sort of hoping they would re-release elves but with different ears.

Carolyn

 

To echo many others in this thread, I believe limited means just that, limited, BUT if the numbers of the dolls are not specified, then the company is within their rights to release more.

However, if the company says (Lets use Breakaway as an example) "Limited to only 200 worldwide" and THEN re-releases the doll, that's just... not cool. (could you imagine the uproar if Breakaways were re-released? 0_0)

As for what makes a doll limited, well, in my opinon, the outfit does not make a doll limited. The SCULPT is what makes a doll limited. The outfit may be limited (for example the Delf Arts) but the doll itself is not. Unless you count that Lishe boy they released. ^^;; I think tacking on elf ears or vampire teeth does turn a regular sculpt into a limited one. It's a limited version of the original sculpt, sure, but it still is limited.

To avoid confusion though, I do agree that it would be nice if companies were more specific in the words they chose.

Shoot, I just realized I restated a ton of stuff... well... here's my 2cents anyway... ^^;;