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Nov 20, 2005

    1. Reading the Amy Brown thread (it's in the news, folks) made me wonder: why is everyone so against anything (animé, EGL, and especially BJD) becoming mainstream?
      I mean, wouldn't it be a good thing?
      Wouldn't it be neat for more people to recognize your dolls when you take them places, or to have more access to affordable, passable quality clothing and accesories?
      I'll use the expample: why would it be so bad for Hot Topic to carry Amy Brown's BJD clothes? I mean, if you think about it, it'd really kick some major ass to be able to go into your friendly neighborhood Hot Topic and pick up and outfit for your doll, and not have to fuss with PayPal or shipping or any of that.
      Or even if the dolls themselves are mass produced and mainstream, wouldn't it be nice to be able to go to a store (that's not thousands of miles away) and really be able to look at someone in person, to hold them, test their posability, whatever, and not rely on photos?
      So, share your thoughts. I'm terribly curious why so many people get all up in arms at the idea of such-and-such becoming mainstream.
    2. I think people don't like the idea of other people thinking about them "Oh, they only like that because it's mainstream", or something along those lines.

      Happens a lot with music, when a band is almost unknown, those who like it really like it, but once it becomes mainstream, people don't want to be catigorised in the same group as those who only like certain bands because they're on MTV or whatever.

      I personally don't care what people think about me, so I couldn't care less if it's mainstream or not. I know I love my boy for my own reasons, and like the music I like because I like it, so I don't care if other people think I only like them because they're popular. (Although it can get annoying. Ever talk to someone who thinks that any anime fan who hasn't seen and enjoyed Akira isn't a "true" anime fan? @_@.)
    3. I would never call hot topic mainstream. It takes un-mainstream stuff and makes it convient, but they're really the only people who do so.

      I also have talked to the folks who work there enough to know that their employees tell the company what to buy. It doesnt get much better than that. The only trade off is yes. 12 year olds will make that their Big Trend Of the Week.

      But hey. It means more BJDs on Ebay English when they descide they want a cellphone/ipod/ps3/boobjob isntead.

      I'd be kinda bummed to go to a store to buy one though. It's really speical knowing "This doll didnt exist until I asked for him, he was cast just for me" and I like that aspect a lot.

      However, going to the store and getting sniffy BJD stuff... woot.
    4. Ya know, I was just thinking the same thing. It makes me wonder just why people DON'T want BJD's to be more mainstream. I mean, now that anime is more prevalent, look how many more titles we have to enjoy. JPop and JRock is getting more popular as well, and I think iTunes has a JPop section (shoot me if I'm wrong on this.) So...I think it would be great. As long as it wasn't a total fad--that I would not like. Though it would be neat to be able to go to like, the Goodwill or something and pick up a BJD for $10.
    5. I don't think it's so much about not wanting BJD to become "mainstream" as being concerned that a burgeoning "new batch" of fans of any particular "something" will not treat the subject with as much respect as those who first brought the subject to light.

      Sometimes we treat our "loves" or "obsessions" as fragile, beautiful, personal things that we feel others might not treat in the same way. We bond with a few others who see our loves in the same light, but when we begin to share those loves, we open them up to the scrutiny of more and more people, and the more people who begin to find our loves and foster opinions about them begin to love them differently.

      That's not to say one version of "loving" something is any better or worse than another, but they become more "open to interpretation," and the more they're shared with those who interpret differently, the more we run the risk of seeing those new interpretations as so different from ours that we might see them as "disrespectful" rather than just different.

      We "safeguard" what we love to different degrees, and while we want to share what we love with others, sometimes when the love blooms into further gardens than what we originally hoped for, we tend to get a little possessive over what we can't control--a garden that's grown into an orchard before we wanted it to.

    6. I'm glad someone has said something about this; I think the entire anti-mainstream mentality is ridiculously absurd.

      Dolls are simply meant to be appreciated, enjoyed, and loved. If people liked them for a fad, so what? And as it's been previously mentioned, these dolls are expensive, so most people who would be interested wouldn't be buying them for the sake of owning one. o___o

      Everyone started off somewhere (the idea of owning a ball-jointed doll didn't miraculously pop into one's head over night), and to be honest, I would love to have more friends who would love to play with me on the weekends instead of hoping and wishing that another ball-jointed doll fan would miraculously appear in my city.
    7. Well, I'm not sure why everyone is against hot topic in general.. It's just a clothing store, no different than any other and in most cases a ton cheaper.

      But to be on topic, I think it would sort of be good.. but also bad. As with all things, this is a double edged sword. Yes, more people will recognize the dolls, yes, things will be more affordable, yes, it will be easier to find clothes... etc. BUT things will also decline in quality. Whenever things become mass produced there is a decline in quality. Smaller companies like Luts, DoD, and Volks (not all of them but I'm lazy) would be crushed in the american market by 'asian' styled BJDs that are mass produced by Mattel and other companies. The dolls would be low quality, probably plastic or vinyl instead of smooth, beautiful resin like abjds now.

      So yes they would be more readily available.. but I think that overall it would be bad. The last thing I want to see is a large display of disgusting barbie/bratz-ized bjd dolls, parading as abjds and making everyone think we're talking about cheap pieces of plastic with large, deformed heads.
      (sorry for barbie/bratz bashing.. I dont mean any harm its just my personal opinion)
    8. I dunno. Most people who dislike things becoming mainstream usually don't want the things they love to be just ordinary and normal. When I got into anime and all, it was because it was different, fresh and against current trends in animation. Now it's just everywhere and things get recycled by companies that weren't into anime in the first place for pro-business purposes than fandom. It doesn't seem unique and special anymore, IMO.
    9. I've always wondered this myself. ^_^;

      Usually, it seems when things become more mainstream that since there's more of a market, there's less of need to really work to sell the product. I guess you could say the quality goes down, but also the amount of inventiveness and artistry tends to waver. To appeal to a large amount of people, something cannot fall into a specific category, such as the way most BJD do by looking anime-ish, or gothic, or extremely artistically idealized, in the case of Dollstown and Notdoll.

      What interests the fans of the original just lessens in the overall product. Once it's made to appeal for everyone, it's something for everyone, and not something really special and unique as it seemed before.
    10. I have a question of my own, to ask everyone here. If BJD DID become mainstream and mass-produced, would you stop collecting? Would you still buy from the companies you love? Would you become disgusted and give up altogether? Or would you be willing to try the new products as well?

      Just wondering.
    11. yes, it has :D it even makes a difference between Jpop and Jrock :D

      a bit OT but I thought that was just too cool,I don't mind things getting mainstream at all, it just means more people to enjoy this wonderful hobby with! I wouldn't mind at all if there were more bjd owners in the netherlands..think of the possibilities, there could be store, a convention, lots of meet-ups..there are so many adventages when more people are intrested in a hobby!
    12. HeatherC19 > it's true that quality might go down, but I think that DOD, Cerberus Project, SoulDoll etc. would be able to hold their own. True, there might be a "cheap" version, but there would always be people, much like ourselves, who would prefer a nicer, hand made, more expensive doll to a shoddy, mass produced one.
    13. Well let's look at it this way. There will always be collectors and consumers. Collectors will try to get dolls that have been produced in limited numbers or for hobbying while consumers purchase on impulse and mere entertainment. The market of low-quality versus high-quality already exists, just that it's expanding.
    14. I doubt that they would catch on with the under 10 market, because they're not cartoony like bratz and barbie. But I would love it if they became more mainstream amoung the doll world.

      I'd be psyched if I picked up an issue of Doll World and it had one or two ABJD articles or patterns. Or if I could go to a hobby or doll store and get ABJD parts and swag. Or if Simplicity had some patterns avalable in their doll section.
    15. If clothes were readily accesible in ordinary stores, i.e. mass produced, i.e. mainstream, it would make them both easier to get hold of and considerably cheaper (or so one hopes...), that would be interesting indeed. Not that I would buy all my girls' clothes like that, but it would be nice to have the opportunity!

      The problem is that for there to be any economy at all in distributing BJD clothes to mainstream stores all over the globe, the BJD hobby would need to be about as commonly withspread as baby dolls or Barbies, and that means mass production on an entirely unprecedented scale...

      I'm not intested in BJD because they are rare - it would be fun if more people knew about this type of doll, and if more people owned these dolls...
      But it would not be interesting if the dolls themselves were mass produced. Let's face it, mass production is not beneficial to great quality! If these dolls weren't of the absolute top-notch quality we've come to assosciate with them - a quality which is an inseparable consequence of them being individually handcrafted products of highly skilled craftsmen who invest a gereat deal of personal pride and joy in their work - I for one would not be interested in them.

      So, I am not interested in BJD's because they are rare, but the pre-requisites for them to be interesting to me still make them rare.
      And I'm fine with that.
    16. I've momentarily had bouts of getting uppity about things I enjoy becoming mainstream, but then I just mentally slap myself, and realize, "Hey, it doesn't matter if everyone else gets into the same thing, because I know that's not why I like it. I like it because of the pleasure it brings to me, and me alone."
    17. I probably wouldn't stop, but I'd go underground. That's pretty much what I've done with other hobbies/collections I have - when it got too popular, and things started going in directions that did not make me happy, I didn't stop, but I stopped participating in the groups, and just quietly kept on collecting the things that make me happy.

      I've tried to participate in mainstream-style groups, and I got really, REALLY tired of being told I wasn't a REAL collector because I started too early/started too late/didn't like or want the hot doll of the day/didn't have the hot doll of the day/didn't have or like the older items that any real collector HAD to have/took my dolls out of their boxes/wasn't the first on the block to have anything/liked things that were too obscure/liked things that were too popular/etc. ad nauseam. It wasn't about the dolls themselves, it was about feeling you're a superior form of collector.

      Frankly, I don't need that grief.

      The only good thing about a hobby exploding in popularity is that eventually the fad WILL pass, and a lot of people will be getting out of it and selling their items cheaply so they can move on to the next fad. When this happens it's wonderful for bargain hunting, and I've been able to take advantage of it with several of the collections I still maintain.

    18. I think perhaps people don't like the idea of cheap, mass-produced ABJDs because it takes a lot of love to be able to drop this much money on a doll, and sadly, a rift would probably develop between those who have actual ABJDs and those who have the mass-produced versions.
      I personally feel that it wouldn't be all that bad, because there are people who love these dolls as much as anyone else, but really don't have the means to obtain them, so it would provide something cheaper that could still be photographed, loved, and probably customized to an extent.
      But hey, the teen trends dolls can be customized too - I met a wonderful lady at a scifi convention who was pining over Dionysus, and did some phenomenal customization on dolls like teen trends, barbie, and Tonner dolls.
    19. Many people already perceive a rift of sorts between the Obitsu and Dollfie Dream owners, and the owners of resin BJDs - I've often seen complaints from DD owners that they've been made to feel their dolls are "inferior" to "proper" BJDs. This can only get worse if the market becomes flooded with cheap mass-produced dolls, I fear.
    20. In a way, hasn't BJD collecting ALREADY become more mainstream, at least in Asia? I mean, we started with Volks, and now have a whole range of companies to choose from that make high quality resin dolls and clothing and accessories. I think that is the path it is more likely to take in the US, with more artists who appear to add to the selection of higher quality dolls. In fact, we've already started down that road, with the fantastic Fancyboots :)

      I don't really see cheap vinyl BJDs becoming a huge thing... maybe dolls that are more articulated or have more customizing options. I could maybe see Mattel making something more along the lines of a BJD out of thier Silkstone material (that could actually be interesting), but I mostly think we'll see more fashion dlls with BJD influences, rather than actual BJD from the major manufacturers. I could be wrong of course. Either way, I think it will be interesting to see :)